Any experience with T-58 yeast?

Have you used Safbrew T-58 yeast? If you have, what were your experiences with this yeast? How did you pitch it and at what temperature did you ferment? Did it start slow or fast?

I'm using it on a wit right now and it seems to be starting really slow.

I used in on a wit and it started up normally within 24 - 36 hours but stopped at 1.025. (All extract batch). Did not rehydrate. I shook the primary and roused the yeast again and it got down to 1.020. Continued shaking but didn't get any more drop out of it. Temperature was held at 65*F to start and raised toward the end to 69*F. Primary 8 days, secondary 7 days. Primed and bottled on 4/2 and tried one the other night. Carbonated well but very sweet. Maybe longer primary and no secondary would've made it better. It was only my third batch.

mblanks2 said:

I used in on a wit and it started up normally within 24 - 36 hours but stopped at 1.025. (All extract batch). Did not rehydrate. I shook the primary and roused the yeast again and it got down to 1.020. Continued shaking but didn't get any more drop out of it. Temperature was held at 65*F to start and raised toward the end to 69*F. Primary 8 days, secondary 7 days. Primed and bottled on 4/2 and tried one the other night. Carbonated well but very sweet. Maybe longer primary and no secondary would've made it better. It was only my third batch.

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Thanks for that info. This yeast seems to be really slow. I've gotten absolutely no activity in the airlock after 48 hours at 65F. It is showing a little krausen so I think there must be something going on in there. I brought it inside tonite to warm up a bit and will watch the airlock later this evening. Maybe nothing to do but take a sample and see if there is any change from the OG?

Just a follow-up in case someone is following this thread:

After 48 hours at 65F and zero activity in the airlock I pulled the fermenter bucket from my fermenter/freezer and placed it inside the house where it was a cozy 80F. After about 4 hours the airlock started bubbling. A little lethargic, but a lot more action than I've seen during the past two days.

I changed the temperature setting on the fermenting chamber to 70F and replaced the beer into the chamber. Will check it in the morning to see if this change has gotten this yeast up and running. I'm thinking this yeast needs it a little warmer than the Nottingham and US-05 that I've had more experience with.

I used it recently for Revvy's Belgian Blonde and fermented in my basement which is around 64-65F. It was a slow fermentation, and stopped at 1.020 (1.067OG). The beer had a weird ass-like aroma but tasted fine, now the aroma is gone.

baulz said:

I used it recently for Revvy's Belgian Blonde and fermented in my basement which is around 64-65F. It was a slow fermentation, and stopped at 1.020 (1.067OG). The beer had a weird ass-like aroma but tasted fine, now the aroma is gone.

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You mentioned it was a slow fermentation, how long did you end up letting it run?

My freezer/fermenter hasn't warmed up yet from the night chill so it is still at 65F this morning but there is some activity in the airlock now. Very sluggish. I'll be interested in checking it as the day goes on and things warm up out there a bit. I set the control to hold at 70F.

Puddlethumper said:

You mentioned it was a slow fermentation, how long did you end up letting it run?

My freezer/fermenter hasn't warmed up yet from the night chill so it is still at 65F this morning but there is some activity in the airlock now. Very sluggish. I'll be interested in checking it as the day goes on and things warm up out there a bit. I set the control to hold at 70F.

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There is another string I am engaged on with this very topic. I've never had luck fermenting with my extract belgians below 70. Some people have, but for me (and I've used T-58 in a Tripel that came out amazing), I need to be above 70, more likely around 73 in order to get it to finish.

Just my experience.

I like dry yeast and It's my go to Belgian yeast for my saison's. It's usually quick and ferments dry. I ferment at room temp for saison's though, so 70-80°.... it has a little fruity taste at those temps but it works for me

I brewed a Belgian black wit with t-58 pitched dry fermented around 68 to 70. Og was 1.058 down to 1.016 in 3 weeks. Started strong like usual. Great beer my first recipe i am very happy with it.

Subbed: Because I have a pack of t-58 laying around and I'm not a big Belgian fan.

This is all good info. I'm doing an AG ShockTop clone. Thought I'd try either S-33 or T-58 as I was told they would both do well for that style. I didn't realize the T-58 needed to be that warm. Have any of you guys tried the S-33 strain for wits?

Yes... I used the T-58 on Tripel, because it has that bigger Belgian flavour (IMO). There is a lot of debate about whether S-33 is even a Belgian strain. A lot of people think it's the old EDME British Strain. I have used it in a Saison. It's fermenting now. Having said that, I pitched it and it went nuts for 48 hours. Temperatures were steady around 64f. Then it stopped and cleared. It wasn't done. I moved it upstairs to the laundry room and put it on top of a heat vent. Temps warmed up to 72f, it started bubbling again. The Belgian smells coming from the airlock are great. But, it needed to be warm too.... again, this is me and according to some I am weird. So YMMV.

How are you planning to finish it off? Are you going to move it to a secondary or let it run in the primary? How much time are you expecting it to take before it is done?

Just a brief follow-up in case anyone is interested....

At 70F in my freezer/fermenter the T-58 gives all the appearances of a stalled fermentation. I have a couple other beers in process in that same fermenter and really don't want to screw them up. So I decided to pull the ShockTop clone/T-58 brew and just let it set on my garage floor. Temps here in central California in late April run close to 90 daytime and mid 50's night-time. I'm figuring that with the thermal mass of 5 gal. of liquid and inside the garage this beer should hold somewhere in the vicinity of 72 - 78F. Its already been in the carboy for 3 full days and only now, once it has warmed up a bit, started to show some activity in the airlock. I think I'll just let it run until the airlock activity stops and then wait a couple of days to take a hydrometer reading. If it looks to be finished I'll move it to a secondary at 65 and let it clear for a week or so and bottle it.

Anyone who might have a better plan of action is invited to chime in here. I really am just guessing at the best way to finish out this beer.

I am leaving mine in primary for three weeks, then I will transfer to secondary until a keg is ready.

I've done a wit and a stout (blended with a second yeast) and fermented them both in the mid to upper 60's, early reaching 70. And that is wort temp using a temp sensor inside the wort. No idea why you're not getting activity, but maybe it has something to do with not hydrating the yeast before pitching?

Puddlethumper said:

You mentioned it was a slow fermentation, how long did you end up letting it run?

My freezer/fermenter hasn't warmed up yet from the night chill so it is still at 65F this morning but there is some activity in the airlock now. Very sluggish. I'll be interested in checking it as the day goes on and things warm up out there a bit. I set the control to hold at 70F.

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I think it was 4 weeks, or close to it. Bought 2 pkgs by accident so will try a warmer temp next time around, hope to have some kind of fermentation chamber built by then.

looneybomber said:

I've done a wit and a stout (blended with a second yeast) and fermented them both in the mid to upper 60's, early reaching 70. And that is wort temp using a temp sensor inside the wort. No idea why you're not getting activity, but maybe it has something to do with not hydrating the yeast before pitching?

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After having it inside the house all day at 75 - 80F it is bubbling nicely. I don't have a clue what esters are being produced by that warm a fermentation, but at least its finally making beer.

As far as pitching the yeast dry is concerned, the package specifically instructed pitching dry. Without some guide as to proper temps for hydrating I was a little reluctant to do much other than just read and follow the label instructions. Others in this thread have said they pitched it dry as well and it has worked for them OK. I'm thinking this yeast just likes it warmer than 65 to do its thing.

Bottled this beer this weekend. It tastes OK but only hit 2.5% ABV.

I'd say I'm disappointed with this yeast, but I suspect there were flaws in my execution. I have another packet of this yeast in the fridge and will wait to use it this fall when I can keep the fermenter on the floor of my office where it will be 70-75F.

Whoa, 2.5Abv? What was your OG?

looneybomber said:

whoa, 2.5abv? What was your og?

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1.030

Whoa... you started low. That's where I start my Yeast Starters....

If you think it's worth it, harvest that yeast and do that batch again, but make it "imperial". Try to get an OG around 1.080 and use that harvested yeast. It'll eat it up.

Vman said:

Whoa... you started low. That's where I start my Yeast Starters....

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I don't even start my yeast starters that low. But no biggie.

I think the problem with this brew began with the recipe. It called for 8 lbs. of fermentables... 6# of wheat malt and 2# of Pilsner. I'm thinking I need closer to 11# total. I'm shooting for a ShockTop clone. Someone gave me this recipe and so far I am not impressed. Any suggestions?

I'm not good enough to make up my own wheat recipe, but Austin Homebrew makes a nice blue moon and a few others. I am sure Northern brewer and midwest have equally good wheat recipes. Maybe try one of their kits?

Extract or AG?? Shock Top is a Belgian style beer but relatively low IBUs. Considering you're talking about a Canadian brand, I'd assume you're here in Canada too? If you wanted to try a kit, maybe try the Belgian table beer (Blonde) from Ontariobeerkegs.com. It'd be close...

So nobody mentioned the whole "didn't rehydrate" as a culprit - just a couple that want to not believe it is. We know better than this now, it's not the 90's. I have had outstanding results with dry yeasts when rehydrating. I've also started using Go-Ferm for wines but that may be overkill for beer.

Rehydrate, pitch, watch blowoff start very soon, that's been my experience. After looking through a microscope at some yeast that had not properly rehydrated I was a believer. This article is a good read - you can figure out what applies to beer vs wine:

MoreWine’s Guideline to Hydrating Active Dry Wine Yeast & A Recommended Nutrient Regimen for Fermentation

As I said I don't think Go-Ferm is needed, but it does not hurt and makes for some remarkably "violent" fermentation.

LBussy said:

So nobody mentioned the whole "didn't rehydrate" as a culprit - just a couple that want to not believe it is. We know better than this now, it's not the 90's. I have had outstanding results with dry yeasts when rehydrating. I've also started using Go-Ferm for wines but that may be overkill for beer.

Rehydrate, pitch, watch blowoff start very soon, that's been my experience. After looking through a microscope at some yeast that had not properly rehydrated I was a believer. This article is a good read - you can figure out what applies to beer vs wine:

MoreWine’s Guideline to Hydrating Active Dry Wine Yeast & A Recommended Nutrient Regimen for Fermentation

As I said I don't think Go-Ferm is needed, but it does not hurt and makes for some remarkably "violent" fermentation.

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Actually, that's not the issue here at all. If he started with a OG of 1.030 and finished around 1.0 that's a 2.63 per cent ABV beer ... so, the yeast did it's thing perfectly. The problem is, there wasn't enough fermentable sugar for the yeast to work with.

Vman said:

Actually, that's not the issue here at all. If he started with a OG of 1.030 and finished around 1.0 that's a 2.63 per cent ABV beer ... so, the yeast did it's thing perfectly. The problem is, there wasn't enough fermentable sugar for the yeast to work with.

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I did not read that ... And I'm on my iPhone and its a ***** to go back and look. If that's the case the. Yes I agree - it would be silly to expect otherwise. I thought it was stuck at 1.020 but maybe that was not the OP?

I agree that the dry pitch of the yeast wasn't the issue. The package on T-58 specifically instructs to pitch it dry. And, absent any clues from the manufacturer, I would be uneasy about guessing at the right temperatures to use for rehydration.

I'm pretty sure the low OG is the best indicator of the problem. Simply put, there just wasn't enough sugar in the wort to feed the yeast, regardless of how the yeast was handled. When I try this brew again I'll do it next fall and boost the wheat malt to about 8# and maybe add a pound of white DME. Then, with fermentation temps at 70-75 I suspect I'll end up with a completely different outcome.

Although before I do that I'd sure like some input from more experience brewers with a better idea.

Just a brief follow-up in case anyone is still following this thread and is interested ....

I opened the wit I made with the T-58 yesterday. It tasted very much like a saison. I suspect that the fruitiness came from the warm temperatures needed to make the yeast do its work. I doubt I'll use T58 again as I am not overly fond of saisons in general. But it was an interesting experience.

When I try this recipe again I'll definitely add more fermentibles (probably at least a couple pounds of domestic two row) and find another yeast strain to work with.

I used t58 in an hme batch. I started cool because I'd read that it warms up. It did, going from 66 -76 in my 67 degree house. Started within 24 hours with a lot of krausen. OG 1.060, three weeks to 1.016, so, all good. Others report sticking around 1.020.

I'm using T-58 for the first time in a simple dubbel. I'm just looking for whatever flavors this stuff might contribute from banana to pepper. Here's a pic after 24 hours of pitching:





So far I'm pretty impressed. Getting aromas of fruit (no banana) with maybe a touch of peppery spice. This was first fermented at 68 and was then allowed to free rise.

You guys are having a completely different experience with this yeast than I did. Wonder if maybe I got a bad batch. Did you pitch it dry or did you rehydrate?

I pitched mine dry and didn't even aerate all that well due to time constraints. 1.070 OG and I'll be seeing where it is this weekend.

I'm surprised at the fact that you are getting such good krausen so soon and at such a cool temperature. But then you are definitely starting with a MUCH higher OG than my batch. But then I can see where a lower OG just might cause it to start slower.

Perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to toss the idea of using T58 for a wit ... instead try for a high enough OG that the yeast has a fair chance.

Give it a shot! It could be that it loves high OG wort. I also used about a total of a pound of sugar (candi and inverted) which may have contributed to its activity.

Speaking of activity, tonight it's slowed way down with just some light co2 bubbles dusting the surface. It's been about 72 hours since pitching and 48 hours since that pic was taken. Aroma is still fruity with just a hint of spice. I'm also smelling plum, raisin and rum, but those could be from the candi syrup and special B.

Mike37 said:

Give it a shot! It could be that it loves high OG wort. I also used about a total of a pound of sugar (candi and inverted) which may have contributed to its activity.

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The candi you were using still upped the sugar available to the yeast. Your experience has definitely shown me that I need to take another look at this yeast strain. I think I'll try it again within the next few weeks but with enough malt to give it a decent OG to work on. I generally keep the fermentation chamber at 65 which generally yields 68-72F fermentation temps.

I pitched it dry too. My batch was from a can of Mrbeer Spring White. I'll be bottling soon.

I'm really interested in following these batches you guys are working on and hearing how they taste. And it does seem, at least from what I have gathered, that most people are pitching it dry.

That wit I made defintely tastes like most of the saisons I have tried with a lot of fruity-ness -- peach - maybe even a slight apricot overtone. Its drinkable and really, if cold enough, kind of refreshing. But I wouldn't care for a steady diet of it.