Is it legal to lock a teen in a cage until 21?

So, as I've mentioned too many times, my wife has been pointing to her watch and saying "when?" for a while now. I'm still not fully employed (working on a contract, not sure what will happen after that), and kids terrify me. In my mind it is THE decision you can never unmake. Plus, as an only child, I am agressively territorial of my free time (that ends I'm told). I didnt see a cute child until I was 28 years old. So yeah, I'm dragging my feet.

And then today I found out that teens have actually been putting themselves in the hospital eating cinnamon. Cinnamon. Apparently the "cinnamon challenge" where you try to swallow a tablespoon of cinnamon in 60 seconds, has been leaving kids with bronchial problems and producing burns in their mouths, noses, and throats... leaving them in the hospital for several days. So, not only would I have the "dont date any guy daddy cant beat up" talk and the "noooooo I toooootally didnt do anything illicit in college" talk... now I have to worry about them raiding my baking pantry.

Same day, guess what else I found out? Kids have been taking large doses of nutmeg with water and tripping their faces off. Oh... and they have been doing so for at least a hundred years. So no cinnamon, no nutmeg. Got it.

Both salt and ice are to be banned as well, seeing as how tough guys have been putting salt on their skin and topping it with an icecube... creating something akin to a chemical burn... an almost free tattoo. WTF??

I was relieved to find out that reports of "butt chugging"... literally pouring an alcoholic beverage into your rectum and soaking tampons with vodka and grain alcohol are largely sensationalized... but saddened and terrified to hear that every year teens are still dying whilst "planking" in dangerous places. This is shocking, because if teens of 2013 are anything like they were in the mid-90's that means they havent been wrong a day of their lives (something that, if my father is an accurate representative, happens again in late-middle age). If I were to start now, would the generation of teen mine would be be more or less likely to do something unbelievably stupid?

The only thing I can think of... why intelligent people would willingly sign up to put themselves through at least 5 years of this torture and worry, is that they have implemented some sort of imprisonment... unleashing their offspring on the world full-grown and above the age of majority. I've seen the "friend" dads, the authoritarian dads, and the amateur psychologist dads all crash and burn... or at least falter perilously... so the only thing I can think of domestic false imprisonment.

I will tell you this right now though... I'd cuff the everloving bejoobus out of my teen's head if I catch him snorting pixie stix and posting it on youtube.

Seriously... WTF is my wife getting me into?

*sigh* I'm screwed.

Having kids is the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. Granted they are only 7 months old, but I wouldn't trade the experiences for the world. As far as what will happen when they get older - all you can do is your best. If you can look in the mirror at the end of the day knowing that every decision you made was in their best interests, then what happens beyond that is out of your control. Bad kids will be bad, I know I was, but you can't control everything.

Apparently this makes me an outlier, but I didn't actually find the arrival of the new baby to gut my former life and leave it bleeding out back behind the maternity ward like everyone told me it would. I enjoyed it, actually, and in some ways my hobbies have gotten as much or more attention as before. They say everything changes, and that's true in some sense, but everything also kind of stays the same.

If both of you want/need to work, make sure you have a plan for childcare. That's the only thing that has ever been consistently stressful. I don't know if I'd be singing the same tune here if the missus and I didn't both have very flexible jobs.

I didn't start homebrewing, or riding a motorcycle for that matter, until I had kids. In fact, by the time I started homebrewing I had two. It is hard to find time for hobbies, but I manage to work them in. It's why I still do a fair amount of extract brewing. Sometimes, setting aside most of a day to brew all-grain just isn't going to happen, but it's nice when it does.

Look at it this way: you'll be doing your part for society.

Your Creamy Junior or Creamette might be President some day!

Cheers! (add that to all the other disturbing thoughts )

day_trippr said:

Look at it this way: you'll be doing your part for society.

Your Creamy Junior or Creamette might be President some day!

Cheers! (add that to all the other disturbing thoughts )

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Yeah, whenever good people like creamy hesitate on the baby making, I'm reminded of the first five minutes of Idiocracy: "A child? In this economy?!?"

day_trippr said:

Look at it this way: you'll be doing your part for society.

Your Creamy Junior or Creamette might be President some day!

Cheers! (add that to all the other disturbing thoughts )

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My Wife: "Doesnt a child that looks like you and talks like you an exciting idea?"

Me: "... ... ... I'm going to be sick"

I have 3 kids under 5. My oldest will be 5 in June, my middlest turned 3 in March, and my youngest is going to be 9 weeks old tomorrow.

Lemme just say this (as others have echoed), my kids are my life for good or bad and it is overwhelmingly good. When you pick your kids up from pre-school and they squeal "Daddy" and run up to you and give you a giant hug, it makes your day better no what.

Working at a high school for the last 7 years, I can tell you that I am scared crapless of my kids turning into a teenager. But I also know that the parents who set boundaries, keep their kids involved, and act like they give a damn raise pretty darned good kids.

Creamy, I think the question you really need to ask yourself is: Do I want kids?

For me, the answer to that question is a resounding NO. I've heard endless arguments about why I'm wrong or how I'll change my mind, but at the end of ~30 years, I feel the same way I did when I was 16: they're not for me.

MalFet said:

Yeah, whenever good people like creamy hesitate on the baby making, I'm reminded of the first five minutes of Idiocracy: "A child? In this economy?!?"

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I love that part!!! I damn near fall off the couch from laughter every time I watch that movie.

ladodger34 said:

I have 3 kids under 5. My oldest will be 5 in June, my middlest turned 3 in March, and my youngest is going to be 9 weeks old tomorrow.

Lemme just say this (as others have echoed), my kids are my life for good or bad and it is overwhelmingly good. When you pick your kids up from pre-school and they squeal "Daddy" and run up to you and give you a giant hug, it makes your day better no what.

Working at a high school for the last 7 years, I can tell you that I am scared crapless of my kids turning into a teenager. But I also know that the parents who set boundaries, keep their kids involved, and act like they give a damn raise pretty darned good kids.

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My two are teenagers now. In a lot of ways it is much more stressful now than it has ever been, but it is also much easier. I worry about my daughter being naive enough to believe whatever anyone tells her, and I worry about my son being a jackass with the car. But I don't have to get a sitter any more when I go out. But on top of it all, they're both good kids who know that they can't get away with anything, I will always eventually find out what they did. Or so I've led them to believe

Some of my favorite memories...

My son running up to the window at the front of the house when I got home and pounding on the glass with excitement when he was still a toddler.
My daughters precious hugs at bedtime.
My son's first "over the fence" home run. That ball SAILED over. No one ever found it.
All the pictures that my daughter drew for me. And still does.
There are tons more, but these are the first one's to pop into my mind.

I've been mostly a single father raising my two kids. It's not as unique of an arrangement as it once was but I wouldn't change anything. Every so often I think about how my career could have been different, or if I could have bought that house on the golf course and had it paid off by now if I had let her take the kids. But I don't think these two would have the same great personalities that they have now and I certainly don't think my life would be nearly as fulfilling as it is. I enjoy my hobbies and my tinkerings, but nothing beats sitting next to baby girl with a movie she wants to watch or hammering out some Call Of Duty with the boy. I would turn my life inside out just to see them smile.

Yeah, don't sweat it, Creamy. You'll never be as prepared as you think you should be but don't ever let that stop you. My kids are the best thing that has EVER happened to me. YMMV.

Let me briefly second jmendez -- kids are the best thing in life, nothing else even comes close. You should really want kids before going ahead but if you do, don't wait until you're "ready" cuz that may never happen.

Mine are now 14 (boy) and 12 (girl) btw.

PistolsAtDawn said:

Creamy, I think the question you really need to ask yourself is: Do I want kids?

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This is the right question. Pistols you are not wrong you are being truthful with your self and others. Not everyone wants kids there is no need to quiz a person over it.

Personally I have 3 kids. 11 year old daughter, 4 year old son and a 16 month old daughter. I love them all. Even after the oldest has causing mass havoc and headaches.

The best advice I have for others is do not change your life because you have kids. Make some minor changes and included kids in your life. No I can't learn to brew all grain middle of the day and watch the two youngest. I can brew extract once they are in bed or when the 16 month old naps. One day me and the wife will set a day when I will be kid free to learn or try all grain even if it is BIAB.

Just do it! You'll never be "ready". They don't start out as teenagers, so you'll have time to teach them stuff before they realize you're an out-of-touch old geezer who doesn't know what it's like to be sixteen.

I will say that while I am closer to a "yes" decision than I have ever been, the borderline harrassment that family on both sides (and yes, to a certain degree SWMBO herself) has done nothing but make me dig in my heels.

Like you seriously have a choice Creamy. Do you really think you can consistently say no when she's ready to go?

Next time she gives me crap Im going to say "ok but only if I can wear a beer helmet during delivery."

That should buy me some time.

But seriously... wtf is wrong with people? Her mother and my cousin teasing me are one thing... they paid admission to bust my balls... but my cousin's aunt whom I havent seen since I was 16??

Why is it perfectly acceptable to ask a near stanger when they are getting married (unless of course you already know and need the date so you can make plans to attend) or when they are having kids? I wouldnt ask a busty woman I just met her bra size or why her kid has been licking a folding chair for the better part of 10 minutes, but those are NO LESS INTIMATE QUESTIONS!

CreamyGoodness said:

Next time she gives me crap Im going to say "ok but only if I can wear a beer helmet during delivery."

That should buy me some time.

But seriously... wtf is wrong with people? Her mother and my cousin teasing me are one thing... they paid admission to bust my balls... but my cousin's aunt whom I havent seen since I was 16??

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Unfortunately, get used to it. Pregnancy causes some kind of social boundary distortion field. In the period before, during, and immediately after it, strangers and near-strangers will inexplicably feel entitled to say and do things that would be obviously inappropriate under any other circumstances.

If you really want to buy some time, tell your wife that -- for the entire duration of her pregnancy -- total strangers will comment at least once a day about what she is eating.

Sorry all. I really am. Im in a foul mood.

ladodger34 said:

When you pick your kids up from pre-school and they squeal "Daddy" and run up to you and give you a giant hug, it makes your day better no what.

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This is probably the favorite part of my day. Doesn't matter what happened at work, it is forgotten after this moment.

Change "during delivery" to "during conception" and I think you have at least another year. Unless you do that already.

I was one of the folks who waited and was concerned about having a child. I was 37 when my kid was born and I was terrified. Heck at 15 she still terrifies me but I love the huge pain in the ass and am glad I am her dad.

In the end my friend I have seen lousy parents and good parents. You will never know what kind of parent you are going to be until it is to late. You might be a parent that hates being a parent or odds are you are going to be a parent who rejoices every time the kid hugs you and loves their kid. Mind you though they say that alot just before they ask for the car or something

Varmintman said:

You might be a parent that hates being a parent or odds are you are going to be a parent who rejoices every time the kid hugs you and loves their kid.

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...or more realistically, you can find yourself having both reactions within the same day, often within only a few minutes or each other.

Don't buy the Hallmark line about every day as a parent being a blessed gift. There will be plenty of those and probably quite a few where you feel yourself wanting to leap off that observation deck, but that's normal and, despite what the storybooks would have you believe, it's also okay.

I don't think I've ever met a man that was "ready" to have kids. But, I've never met a man that regretted having kids (that were planned). You'll do fine Creamy...... And like Darwin said....your married to the love of your life, do you really have a choice? There isn't a day that goes by that I'm not both terrorized and enamored with my son and daughter. Best thing ever. 10x better than a dog! LMAO

CreamyGoodness said:

But seriously... wtf is wrong with people? Her mother and my cousin teasing me are one thing... they paid admission to bust my balls... but my cousin's aunt whom I havent seen since I was 16??

Why is it perfectly acceptable to ask a near stanger when they are getting married (unless of course you already know and need the date so you can make plans to attend) or when they are having kids? I wouldnt ask a busty woman I just met her bra size or why her kid has been licking a folding chair for the better part of 10 minutes, but those are NO LESS INTIMATE QUESTIONS!

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Nothing set me off more than the plethora of intrusive family/friends constantly asking me "when". I'd reply with "I'm not ready to have kids but practicing to make one is great".

Moving on to present day, I've got two daughters now. My twentysomthing self was absolutely terrified of having kids; now I truly cannot imagine anything more enjoyable or fulfilling. It changes things, but it's all for the better. Just think that 12 months after your child is born you'll be welcomed home to "hi dada" - it's absolutely magical.

CreamyGoodness said:

Sorry all. I really am. Im in a foul mood.

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Just get a vasectomy next time she's out of town. Problem solved.

CreamyGoodness said:

I will say that while I am closer to a "yes" decision than I have ever been, the borderline harrassment that family on both sides (and yes, to a certain degree SWMBO herself) has done nothing but make me dig in my heels.

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I think it's important for you to really consider if you want children, or not. Some people just don't, and that's fine. But saying you don't want kids makes people look at you like some sort of weirdo.

NEVER be forced into making such a decision! it's huge. It's ok to want kids. And it's ok to not want them. It doesn't make you shallow or selfish to not want children.

CreamyGoodness said:

Why is it perfectly acceptable to ask a near stanger when they are getting married (unless of course you already know and need the date so you can make plans to attend) or when they are having kids? I wouldnt ask a busty woman I just met her bra size or why her kid has been licking a folding chair for the better part of 10 minutes, but those are NO LESS INTIMATE QUESTIONS!

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Just wait! If you and your wife do decide to have a child, strangers will touch her stomach on the train. I swear. People just forget boundaries with pregnant women.

Answer all questions by giving a a sly smile and then say, "How much did you report on your 1040 last year as income?" and then they'll realize how rude they have been.

MalFet said:

Unfortunately, get used to it. Pregnancy causes some kind of manners distortion field. In the period before, during, and immediately after it, strangers and near-strangers will inexplicably feel entitled to tell you things that would be obviously inappropriate under any other circumstance.

If you really want to buy some time, tell your wife that -- for the entire duration of her pregnancy -- total strangers will comment at least once a day about what she is eating.

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No freaking crap about people saying stuff. My sister just recently told everyone that she is expecting. Her MIL told her "the baby is probably going to be ugly, because (hubby) was the ugliest baby". Nice huh?

I actually started homebrewing for real when my son was born, before we spent more time traveling (far and not so far) but when little guy showed up i found myself at home more often so homebrewing was perfect new hobby for me

CreamyGoodness said:

But seriously... wtf is wrong with people? Her mother and my cousin teasing me are one thing... they paid admission to bust my balls... but my cousin's aunt whom I havent seen since I was 16??

Why is it perfectly acceptable to ask a near stanger when they are getting married (unless of course you already know and need the date so you can make plans to attend) or when they are having kids? I wouldnt ask a busty woman I just met her bra size or why her kid has been licking a folding chair for the better part of 10 minutes, but those are NO LESS INTIMATE QUESTIONS!

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They ask intimate questions and make you uncomfortable, just return the favor I say!

"Why yes, mother-in-law, we've been trying/doing it a lot! Do I have stories for you! In fact we just finished about 4 minutes ago. Whew I'm beat..."

Ok maybe don't do that.

Teenagers are stupid. I was one very recently. I did the "cinnamon challenge", wrecked jet skis, burned myself with salt and ice for fun and did all kinds of things I would never do now. I saw friends huff and drink paint thinner and somehow live.

I'm still young so maybe this will wear off but my own teenage years make me want to never have kids.

Speaking of,

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f45/i-teen-once-314837/index2.html

The video there says it all

"drinking paint thinner"?

Woof! That is definitely hard core. Wouldn't even want to think how years that takes off a liver's usable lifespan.

Things have sure changed since my time, when all we did was weed, hash, acid, peyote, 'shrooms...

You know, the basically harmless stuff...

Cheers!

Butt chugging?! Nutmeg and cinnamon? WTF is wrong with teens today? I recall doing some really dumb $hit as a teen but this is getting out of hand.

BTW, I always enjoy reading your threads. They are not only entertaining but occasionally informative.

I have a 11 yr old boy and 9&10 yr old daughters. Im not sure if ive mentioned it before but my son is possibly autistic, going through lots of testing over the years but no definitive diagnosis. So here is my 2¢.
There is nothing wrong with not being ready, you are never ready, and the closer the due date is the more unsure about your readiness you will be. You just do what you can and try to steer them in the right direction and hope for the best. You will love them no matter what, even if there are days you feel like killing them and question what you were thinking. .but decide if you WANT kids.... Thats the question. The when will take care of itself.

A few last things..

I worked with a guy many years ago that didn't want kids. He said it took him a while to find a girl that felt the same way, but it was worth it to him.

Having 3 kids, I know how much work they are and that's why I respect the heck out of people who honestly make the decision that they don't want to do it. The guy I worked with would have been a heck of a father I think, but it just wasn't what he wanted to do in life. More power to him.

All that said, there really is no right time to have kids. Even when you think you are ready for them, you have no idea what is in store for you. My best friend and his wife are due in a few weeks. They are ready and really want them, but they are going to be in a world of hurt for a bit.

Two last things..

Too bad people can't mind they own dang bidness when it comes to the "when are the kiddos coming?" question. It's way to personal. I think you should start getting all graphic (even if it isn't true).. "we've been charting her basal temperature and going at it like crazy when we think she is going to ovulate but it just hasn't happened yet.. can you tell me how you did it?"*

And the last most important thing.. if you talked about having kids and wanted them before you got married, man up and do it. If not, let her go find someone else who wants to have kids.

* disclaimer: this could backfire and you could get into a way uncomfortable situation.

Don't have kids! I speak from experience -- I have three adult "kids." They will completely weasel their way into your heart from the moment they hit the atmosphere until they leave for college. Then they will ache your heart (yes -- I mean "ache") as they drive away, travel, marry, settle in another city hours away, and generally enjoy life experiences with others that were once only yours to enjoy with them.

And did I mention how fast time flies as they grow up? I constantly ask my friends, "How did we get here so fast?"

In all the seriousness worthy of your query, do NOT have kids if you really do not want the responsibility. My wife -- a high school teacher -- sees way too much of that.

If you decide to have kids, commit to pouring yourself into your relationship with them and their mom. By this I mean, eating at the table together (no TV, etc.); attending dances, games, concerts, etc.; teach them stuff like fishing, woodworking, cooking -- all the stuff you like to do they really want to do with you. That stuff provides the moments and connections kids crave and generally keeps kids from doing most of the stupid stuff referenced earlier in this thread. Plus, you'll have a devoted buddy to share in your favorite things.

Of course, they will still do stupid stuff. We call those "teachable moments" in our house.

Unfortunately all my current hobbies involve fire. That precludes the first couple years right there.

CreamyGoodness said:

Unfortunately all my current hobbies involve fire. That precludes the first couple years right there.

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My boys help me bottle my beers. They love filling the bottles and helping me with the capper.

yeah the capper is pretty fun.

Hammy71 said:

There isn't a day that goes by that I'm not both terrorized and enamored with my son and daughter. Best thing ever. 10x better than a dog! LMAO

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Nothing is better than a dog. Be realistic, sir!

ladodger34 said:

I worked with a guy many years ago that didn't want kids. He said it took him a while to find a girl that felt the same way, but it was worth it to him.

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It is worth it, but I will also acknowledge that it was pretty hard. When I was single I could eliminate 99% of prospects with two questions:

1. Do you want kids?
2. Are you religious?

Just a yes to either one was a deal breaker for me for any long-term relationship.

BUT it's worth it to be honest with yourself about what you want. If that means - as it does in my case - that you don't want kids, you will be making one of the worst decisions in the world if you fall into a long term relationship with someone who does. There are two realistic scenarios if that should happen: you have kids that you don't want, you break up. The former is FAR worse I think as you will never be as committed of a parent as you should be and those kids will suffer for it.