E-Herms Build 50 amp

Panel mock up after it was cut out and panel primed. Tomorrow is the real paint on the panel

Switches, PID's, timers, and indicator lights installed. Making progress slowly but surely.

Looks like some good progress, Now the fun parts starts (wiring). When I did mine it was a little overwhelming at first. Then it got better as I went along. Good luck and keep the pictures coming.

The sun and 70+ degree weather decided to show up over the weekend so the only thing I got done on the panel was mounting the DIN rails to the back plate. I played around with placement of the breakers, contactors, etc. and I think I have them where I want them. Hopefully I can start on some wiring next weekend.

I got a Monoprice tv mount http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082806&p_id=5921&seq=1&format=2 in the mail today and hope to mount the plate to the back of my panel tomorrow. Once that happens, I can put the panel backplate back in and start the wiring. I was hoping to get a big chuck of wiring completed this weekend but all 6 kegs are getting low. So, it will be a brew weekend! With propane

Got the tv mount mounted last night.

I like the idea of a foldaway panel on a TV arm. Definitely a space saver.

Once I get my Stout tanks (should be next month), I will figure out how I want to attach the TV mount to the brew stand. I have a big shop and was thinking about placing the brew stand up against a wall and mounting the panel on the wall but I really like wheeling the stand around to wherever I want. On nice days I can wheel it out the garage door and on crappy days I can brew inside. I like to be mobile!

cheez said:

I have a big shop and was thinking about placing the brew stand up against a wall and mounting the panel on the wall but I really like wheeling the stand around to wherever I want. On nice days I can wheel it out the garage door and on crappy days I can brew inside. I like to be mobile!

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I'm thinking about doing the same with the rig I'm building, for the exact same reasons. I'll be interested in what you come up with.

I finally got to some wiring. I'm brewing two 10 gal batches tomorrow so I should be able to spend some time here and there on the wiring. Slowly but surely...

Looking good! I have a few questions on your wiring so far...

Do you need partitions between your neutral/hot/hot terminal blocks? I think most people use something to separate them.

Do you need to use #6 wire from the DIN blocks to the breakers or is it okay to drop down in size since it's such a short run? I thought I read something about doing it your way this on the forum but can't remember where.

Also, where did you get your breakers? I was thinking of getting them from ebrewsupply but they only carry 15A and 25A.

summerofgeorge said:

Looking good! I have a few questions on your wiring so far...

Do you need partitions between your neutral/hot/hot terminal blocks? I think most people use something to separate them.

Do you need to use #6 wire from the DIN blocks to the breakers or is it okay to drop down in size since it's such a short run? I thought I read something about doing it your way this on the forum but can't remember where.

Also, where did you get your breakers? I was thinking of getting them from ebrewsupply but they only carry 15A and 25A.

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I have seen some folks put partitions between the DIN blocks and others have not. I got my blocks from McMaster-Carr and they don't even sell separators - at least I couldn't find any specifcally. I suppose I could use the "end covers" to serve the same purpose. I could easily be persuaded to use them if someone sold me on it being a major safety thing.

I have 10 ga running between the DIN blocks and breakers. I only used 6 ga from the main power inlet through the contactor to the DIN blocks.

I got the breakers from automationdirect as I wanted a 30A for the 5,500w element. Probably overkill but everything this engineer does seems to be overkill

I spent about an hour on wiring today and I hope to get a couple of hours in on it tomorrow. I mainly just need to wire up the PID's and relay for the safe start setup. I am still waiting on a few more NO contact blocks for my alarm switches. They are on backorder until the end of this month. If everything goes smoothly, I hope to be brewing on the new system in June.

I received an e-mail from Stout Tanks saying the MT and HLT are ready to pick up but I'm holding off until next month when the BK should be ready. I only live 2 hours from Portland and I am fighting every urge to drive down there and pick up the MT and HLT...

I posted a separate question about how to wire the relay for the "safe start" setup here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/help-relay-wiring-safe-start-interlock-405178/ and Facinerous made a valid point that I don't even need this relay. I already have NC contact blocks on my pump and element switches and these NC blocks are located between the key switch and main contactor. So, if any of these NC blocks are open, it will not allow the juice to flow from the key switch to the main contactor, effectively preventing the panel from lighting up. Sounds good to me. Below is an updated wiring diagram. I'll be finishing all of the wiring this week/weekend and hope to plug it in as soon as I get a few more NO blocks from Automation Direct towards the end of this month.

View attachment Wiring Diagram 3.pdf

Wouldn't the main contactor shut off as soon as you try to turn on a pump/element?

cheez said:

i only live 2 hours from portland and i am fighting every urge to drive down there and pick up the mt and hlt...

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Do it! Do it!

orangehero said:

Wouldn't the main contactor shut off as soon as you try to turn on a pump/element?

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Hmm... damn it, I thought I had it all figured out! That makes sense. For some reason I was thinking that once the contactor was engaged it would stay that way until it was told to do otherwise. Well, turning a pump/element switch on would definitely tell it what to do otherwise!

So, once engaged, I am assuming this safe start relay stays that way until the power is off, regardless of the pump/element switch status. But, the relay wouldn't engage at startup unless the pump/element switches are turnd off. Is that why there are two internal switches on these relays? I usually understand the purpose and how to wire basic relays but this one is giving me a headache.

I guess it's back to Plan A. I still need some input on whether or not I have wires going to the correct terminals on the safe start relay.

When I look at the relay wiring diagram, I see power coming into terminal #5 from the key switch and power going into terminal #6/8 (assuming the pump/element switches are not engaged). Wouldn't the power going to #5 engage the main contactor regardless of what's going on with the pump/element switches?

I obviously need help understanding this

Edit: It's probably obvious but I should state that the "red" lines and key switch, element/pump switches, etc. are what I added to Automation Direct's terminal diagram.



View attachment Wiring Diagram 2.pdf

I think you have it drawn up correctly. The power going into #5 will go to #1 until the relay is energized. Once energized, the power will go from #5 to #3 and then to the e-stop and contactor. The only way for the relay to get energized is to get power to #8 (only if pumps and elements are initially off). Once the relay latches, it will be getting power from the main switch so it stays on when the pumps/elements are turned on.

I will have to respectfully disagree with summerofgeorge. There is no latching circuit the way it's drawn up. When all of the switches are off initially, the relay will switch to the NO contacts. Now, when a pump or element switch is turned on, the relay coil will be unenergized, disengaging the relay again, effectively killing power to the main disconnect contactor. I've attached a revised diagram that should accomplish what you have set out to do.

In post #57, after it's energized, power is supplied from 4-6 which is piggybacked from 3-5 and the main switch. Your version seems to work also.

I just pulled up Kal's wiring diagram and compared it to the schematic on the octal relay he used and my initial diagram is essentially the same. His octal relay has the terminal numbers arranged differently.

Here's Kal's description: "The safe start interlock relay only receives power when the POWER KEY switch is set to ON and all three other switches are set to OFF. Once the interlock relay receives power and latches, it feeds into the POWER IN RELAY coil to turn on the rest of the control panel. Once latched, power for the interlock relay is then also drawn directly from the POWER KEY switch through one of the poles in the interlock relay that is now closed. This keeps the interlock relay coil energized and allows the other three switches to be turned ON or OFF as required without turning off the control panel while in use or affecting the interlock capability. If power to the panel is cut, the interlock relay releases and the three switches must be set to OFF before the panel may be powered on again."

So, I think the power from the key switch to terminal 5 is essentially what stays latched when the pump/element switches are turned off and on, keeping power going to the main contactor. It only becomes unlatched when the key switch is turned off. I think

Gentlemen, my apologies. I see it now. It seems both versions do work. Carry on! Must have been too late and I wasn't seeing the latch, but it IS there! My bad! Good luck with your build cheez!!!

Once again, thanks for everyone's help. I should be able to finish the wiring within the next couple of days, with the exception of waiting for the additional NO blocks I need for my alarm switches.

Looking forward to seeing how your interlock goes Cheez. I was actually thinking about that same relay a couple days ago before I saw your threads. Please let us know how it goes and what you end up doing with the wiring. My build will be a lot like yours except I will just use 1 element at a time. Good luck and great job so far!

MrSaLTy said:

Looking forward to seeing how your interlock goes Cheez. I was actually thinking about that same relay a couple days ago before I saw your threads. Please let us know how it goes and what you end up doing with the wiring. My build will be a lot like yours except I will just use 1 element at a time. Good luck and great job so far!

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Thanks! I ended up wiring the relay per my original diagram. I'm waiting for some additional NO contact blocks to show up (hopefully next week) and then I can plug this thing in!

Hey man. I was just checking in on the build. Hope everything is coming along. Enjoy your new setup!

Facinerous said:

Hey man. I was just checking in on the build. Hope everything is coming along. Enjoy your new setup!

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I'm just waiting for a couple more NO contact blocks for my alarm switches to show up (should be here tomorrow) and my Stout tanks order should be ready by the end of May. The panel is 99% complete. I've been playing around with pump and plate chiller locations and mounting options.

Not much to report. I got the two NO contact blocks in the mail the other day and wired them up so the panel is 100% done (except the tags/labels). I'm pretty much on hold until I pick up my Stout tanks package towards the end of May. I'm still trying to figure out where I want my pumps and plate chiller located on the stand. I'm thinking of putting them close together and off to one end. I will probably wait to mount these until I get my kettles and can play around with it more.

Were you able to confirm that the interlock/relay setup you went with works correctly or do you have to wait to check that out? The panel looks great BTW.

MrSaLTy said:

Were you able to confirm that the interlock/relay setup you went with works correctly or do you have to wait to check that out? The panel looks great BTW.

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I haven't yet. I spent Friday and today brewing 4 batches of beer as I am almost bone dry. I have 6 taps and try to pull from all of them equally. The problem with that is they all run out at the same damn time!

I need to do one last trace of the wires to make sure they all go where they are supposed to. I went through them a couple of days ago and found a few that were mixed up. I figured I will let it rest for a few days, get a fresh mind, and look at it again. I'll probably run continuity tests on what I can to see if that catches anything else. If all looks good, there's no reason why I couldn't plug it in and see what happens (a.k.a. watch the sparks fly!).

To tell you the truth, I'm afraid to plug this damn thing in I'm a realist and know that something will be messed up... but at least I won't be dissapointed

Nothing new to report other than I received an e-mail from Stout tanks saying all of my stuff should be ready for pick-up the first week of June. Once I get the kettles, I will mount the pumps, plate chiller, and panel. I still need to grow some balz and plug this panel in... I'm thinking I will have a few homebrews beforehand to help soften me up for a potential disaster

I finally grew some cajones and plugged the panel in today. I turned on the key switch and the safe start relay and main contactor clicked on - great!. I then flipped both of the 2 pole breakers on and nothing blew up - great! I flipped on the 15-amp breaker and it immediately blew the 5-amp fast blow fuse - damn! The only things downstream of this fuse are the PID's and Timer's. I immediately remembered that I may have used the wrong wiring diagram for the Auber Timer's (they have two on-line) so I pulled up the latest one, switched some wires around and bingo! We have ignition. I am very thankful I put that in-line fuse in otherwise I may have had some fried PID's and Timer's.

I only had enough time this evening to check that the e-stop works, the safe start interlock relay works, the pump outlets had power, the element switches are turning their respective contactors on/off, the PID's and Timer's turn on, a timer alarm sent a signal to the buzzer, and all pushbutton's illuminate when switched. Great success!

I hope to have time this weekend to play around with the PID's and Timer's to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to and I expect to pick up my Stout Tanks order next week. I might be brewing on this thing in July if all goes well.

That's great news! I love the updates! I'll be interested to hear how the first brew goes!

I picked up my Stout tanks last Friday. Overall, I like them. As others have mentioned, I wish the outlet from the HLT and Mash Tun were about 1/4" higher. I went with the butterfly valves for the outlets from all three vessels and the body of the butterfly valve bottoms out on the brew stand on the HLT and MT. So, I will need to put some boards or something beneath these two vessels to raise them up a hair. I hope they fix this some day for future owners.

The overall craftsmanship is average. Not all of the welded fittings are lined up with each other vertically or are not at 90 degrees from the handles or each other. I wish there was a hook on the lids to hang them from the handles. I almost need a separate "lid stand" I like that the HERMS coil has a big space between the coils so the heating element can pass through without hitting the coil. I think the Blichman's are slightly better made as far as looks go and the fittings lining up. But, it's hard to beat the Stout prices and I love the tri-clamps!

I just placed orders with brewers hardware, brew hardware, and bargain fittings for a ton of valves, fittings, tri-clamp stuff, tubing, etc.

This week I hope to attach the TV mount to the stand, finish the pump stand, and mount the plate chiller to the stand. Once I get my orders in on all of the fittigns, I will hard plumb some water lines on the stand, run all of the cables from the control panel to the pumps and vessels, and do a test run.

I just need to figure out how to run the heating element power, pump power, and RTD cables from the control panel, along the back side of the brew stand and to the kettles. I also want to run a water pipe to the top of the BK and HLT for easy filling but I'm having a hard time visualizing something I like.

I started a thread asking for examples here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/need-examples-wire-cable-runs-brew-stand-418429/

Once I get that stuff done, it's time for a test run with water!

Looks awesome Cheez. Where did you end up getting the label tags?

MrSaLTy said:

Looks awesome Cheez. Where did you end up getting the label tags?

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Thanks! Same place that Kal did http://www.signsbannerstags.ca/

You could always take some wire and make a hook for the handles so the lid will hang from the handle. Might not look super professional but it would do the job.

Sorry to be a pain Cheez but do you remember what point size you used for the lettering on the tags?

MrSaLTy said:

Sorry to be a pain Cheez but do you remember what point size you used for the lettering on the tags?

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No problem. I got about 99% of my build ideas from this forum so the least I can do is return the favor.

I got 1/2" x 1-3/4" plastic tags with beveled edges, white lettering on a black background, 1/8" tall letters, Arial Black font, and double sided tape.

Cost for 28 tags including shipping was just over $50.