Foregoing Early Addtion Hops

So, I am looking for a lot of hop flavor without overwhelming bitterness. I have an IPA recipe in Beersmith right now that has no early addition hops at all. The first addition is at 25 minutes. With the hops I've contemplated, I get 55-60 IBU (which is fine for my bitterness goal) with the late additions.

What is the downside? Is the bitterness somehow different from the higher alpha, higher quantity late additions than from something milder added at 60 minutes?

Ridire said:

So, I am looking for a lot of hop flavor without overwhelming bitterness. I have an IPA recipe in Beersmith right now that has no early addition hops at all. The first addition is at 25 minutes. With the hops I've contemplated, I get 55-60 IBU (which is fine for my bitterness goal) with the late additions.

What is the downside? Is the bitterness somehow different from the higher alpha, higher quantity late additions than from something milder added at 60 minutes?

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Oh, I love doing that! The technique is called "hopbursting" and I do that for several beers. I first got the idea a while back, but until I tried "Jamil's Evil Twin" recipe, I didn't make a beer with that technique.

A couple of years ago I tried it, and it was such a nice beer that I do it fairly often. A hoppy pale ale or hoppy amber would work great. For IPAs, I usually don't do hopbursting because I like a slightly firmer bitterness.

However, if you want to do this with an IPA I don't think you'd be disappointed in the quality of the bitterness if you're getting 60 IBUs. I'm not really sure, though, because it depends on how "firm" you want the bitterness. Some people like their IPAs to be bracingly bitter and don't even FWH because of the smooth quality of the bitterness in that use.

I guess you could think about if you want intense bitterness or not behind the hoppy flavor. Even though the IBUs are the same, there is definitely a different quality to hopbursted beers and they come across as smoother with a big hops flavor.

The downside is that you run the risk of brewing something more akin to fruity hop juice than an IPA with firm bittering support. You can still have the best of both worlds though as we see with top commerical examples such as Enjoy by IPA, Pliny the Elder, and Heady Topper. Research their methods and look up some clone attempts for a clearer picture. Gaining IBUs early in the boil is also cheaper and more effective than gaining a bunch of IBUs from 20-5 minutes. You get more bang for your buck by not foregoing a traditional bittering addition.

I did a brew with only hop steeps after boil. Bitterness is pretty low. It's like a slightly bitter hop nectar. Personally, I love it

I think I'm going to try it. Will the bittering really be so weak if Bearsmith is showing 60 IBU coming from the high AA late hops?

EDIT: apparently I am brewing "bear" now.

Bearsmith/beersmith significantly underestimates the bittering impact of late hops. Unless you chill immediately after flameout you are getting much more bitterness from hops added in the last 0-10 minutes than the software would suggest. 60 IBUs all from late additions will likely be plenty bitter.

Ridire said:

I think I'm going to try it. Will the bittering really be so weak if Bearsmith is showing 60 IBU coming from the high AA late hops?

EDIT: apparently I am brewing "bear" now.

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I'm a little confused by what you mean, but the general rule of thumb is that at 180 steep the IBUs will be 10% utilization. The thing is that IBUs aren't the only thing that make a beer taste bitter.

My brew was 2 oz at 180 for 30 min then 2 more at 160 for 30 more

TheHairyHop said:

I'm a little confused by what you mean, but the general rule of thumb is that at 180 steep the IBUs will be 10% utilization. The thing is that IBUs aren't the only thing that make a beer taste bitter.

My brew was 2 oz at 180 for 30 min then 2 more at 160 for 30 more

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I'm equally confused by what you mean here. Most of the IBU's are coming from the 25 minute additions not the hop stand. I'm not expecting much bittering from the hop stand.

Hop stands above 180 F can add plenty of IBUs if held there for awhile with a large amount of hops. I've heard of 50 IBUs gained from this addition alone for one particular beer. This is still not a good reason to forego the bittering addition IMO. You want some type of hop layering in a good ipa and not just hop tea/beer.

Ridire said:

I'm equally confused by what you mean here. Most of the IBU's are coming from the 25 minute additions not the hop stand. I'm not expecting much bittering from the hop stand.

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If you want a smooth bitterness, without a firm bitter flavor, and lots of hops flavor and aroma, your hopbursted IPA will work fine.

I think Hairy did ONLY a hopstand is relaying his experience with that, and not with hopbursting.

I make an all late hop pale/ipa. Ive been changing it up slightly here and there as far as hops and slight grist bill modifications to see what I like best. It is my most consistent beer. Always comes out a winner.

I did scale my ibus back on the last batch though to more of a pale ale style, about 40 ibus. I used Chinook, Amarillo, Summit and Nelson. 1st addition of 1 oz Chinook was at 20 mins. Everything else was under 10 mins and Nelson at 0 once the wort cooled to like 180.