Is it safe to brew?

A few days ago I found rat droppings next to my grains, they were in a sealed bag but rat chewed up through the corner of the bag to get to the grains? Rat never went in but I'm wondering if its safe to use those grains for brewing or if they need to be trashed...

I was toss them, despite boiling, rats are dirty. And why take any risk for so much work

Should be OK, the boil will take care of any nasties. Rodents and bugs are present in the fields where grain is grown and likely present in bulk storage and processing facilities. Just because we get our grain in sealed plastic bags does not mean it was ever close to sterile to begin with. I say brew away and invest in a metal container to keep the furry buggers out of the grain.

Boil the ever living piss out of it. Ever seen "BEER WARS"? in it. Not sure who. Doesn't say in film. But, they took water out of a duck pond that had no filtration. But high in. well, piss, crap, bugs & other nasties. Cholera, E-coli. They boiled the hell out of it. Served it. All was well. Plus,Me sister in law has to take a food server class every year, for the last 15 yeras or so for her business. I think by the Gov. They tell her 165° kills everything. Disclaimer. 25518. Is not a licensed anything. Do what you will with yer grains. They be your grains. And get a. Cat.

25518 said:

Boil the ever living piss out of it. Ever seen "BEER WARS"? in it. Not sure who. Doesn't say in film. But, they took water out of a duck pond that had no filtration. But high in. well, piss, crap, bugs & other nasties. Cholera, E-coli. They boiled the hell out of it. Served it. All was well. Plus,Me sister in law has to take a food server class every year, for the last 15 yeras or so for her business. I think by the Gov. They tell her 165° kills everything. Disclaimer. 25518. Is not a licensed anything. Do what you will with yer grains. They be your grains.

Click to expand...

A period doesn't need to be placed after every three words.

the black plague that wiped out 2/3 of the european population was passed by rats. but no problem... really. the boil will kill even plague germs

gmcapone said:

A period doesn't need to be placed after every three words.

Click to expand...

I apologize I'm. Kind of thinking. As I'm typing. Doing other things. Badly as well. I have a.short window of. Free time to. Enjoy before I. Go to bed. And have to. Get up early. To do it. All over again.

Thanks everybody, I got myself some containers to keep my grains safe from pests in the future...

Btw, rat got lead poisoning this morning

gmcapone said:

A period doesn't need to be placed after every three words.

Click to expand...

Take it easy on him, he's just giving his best Captain Kirk impession

lumpher said:

the black plague that wiped out 2/3 of the european population was passed by rats. but no problem... really. the boil will kill even plague germs

Click to expand...

Actually fleas, the rats carried the fleas.

hanta virus is killed only with UV light. rat droppings and urine are the transmitting matter for hanta virus.

Personally even despite that, I think its revolting. unless your hard up, toss that sh*t

pkrath84 said:

hanta virus is killed only with UV light. rat droppings and urine are the transmitting matter for hanta virus.

Personally even despite that, I think its revolting. unless your hard up, toss that sh*t

Click to expand...

I work in animal labs and rats are no big deal (to me). Ferrets on the other hand...how people keep those disgusting creatures as pets is beyond me.

Oh suck it up people. We're brewers, use the darn grain. You're making us look like pansy distillers or something.

pkrath84 said:

hanta virus is killed only with UV light. rat droppings and urine are the transmitting matter for hanta virus.

Personally even despite that, I think its revolting. unless your hard up, toss that sh*t

Click to expand...

This is BS! You CAN chemically and thermally inactivate hantaviruses. If anyone is really concerned about pathogens in their brews take a look at CDC's BMBL section dealing with disinfection and sterilization:
http://www.cdc.gov/biosafety/publications/bmbl5/BMBL5_appendixB.pdf

Happy reading!

Think of all the names you could use if you do brew with the grains.

Bubonic pale

Huanta hefe

^I stand corrected.

Dont get me wrong, I can deal with rats. My fiance had 2 fat rats as pets and I used to inject them and god knows what else during undergrad research.

But if you want to eat and drink shi*t, go right ahead!

so maybe not ONLY by UV light, but...

Thanks for making me look like an asshat

My suggestion is to take your grain to a Nuclear Power Plant, have them place your grain on top of the reactor head for 2 days, then it will be safe to brew with. lmao sorry I just couldn't resist.

Cheers

If you think that, at one point, rats or mice haven't gotten into all of the grain you guys have used in the past....then you guys are all delusional. Rats and grain go together. Get used to it.

Rats in grain. Not a problem. Boil that ****. On other hand. Trouble if tribbles.

pkrath84 said:

so maybe not ONLY by UV light, but...

Thanks for making me look like an asshat

Click to expand...

I don't want to make anyone look like anything but I hate the distribution of false (or at least incomplete) information. We're good?

The whole point of the boil is to kill every living organism in the brew. The duck pond beer mentioned earliers was an experiment at University of California, Berkley (IIRC - I was drinking during the "How Beer Saved the World" movie, where they showed and discussed the experiment) - that had all sorts of evil nasties pre-boil but post boil was clean and healthy. It was to prove the old adage about beer in Europe because the water would kill you (all those nasties). Rodents have always gotten into grains and malts, it is what they eat. Don't be fastidious, use the grain! Or send it to me and I'll brew with it...

25518 said:

Boil the ever living piss out of it. Ever seen "BEER WARS"? in it. Not sure who. Doesn't say in film. But, they took water out of a duck pond that had no filtration. But high in. well, piss, crap, bugs & other nasties. Cholera, E-coli. They boiled the hell out of it. Served it. All was well. Plus,Me sister in law has to take a food server class every year, for the last 15 yeras or so for her business. I think by the Gov. They tell her 165° kills everything. Disclaimer. 25518. Is not a licensed anything. Do what you will with yer grains. They be your grains. And get a. Cat.

Click to expand...

It was from "how beer saved the world" I love that documentary haha.

Agree with what people are saying though. You boil it, it kills the nasty stuff. Brew on!

I did brew with it, it's and ipa, I just boiled for 90 min.

DromJohn said:

Rats in grain. Not a problem. Boil that ****. On other hand. Trouble if tribbles.

Click to expand...

I had some Mogwai near my grain last weekend, and I forgot to turn the clock back in my grain room. Thought it was after midnight - rat poop is one thing ... but gremlin slime? Yuck. Losing a sack of MO like that would have been a mini-crisis.

http://gremlins.wikia.com/wiki/Mogwai

And +1 on the its fine thing. If a sour mash can make a decent beer, then anything can.

m3n00b said:

If you think that, at one point, rats or mice haven't gotten into all of the grain you guys have used in the past....then you guys are all delusional. Rats and grain go together. Get used to it.

Click to expand...

This.

You can kill most microbes by boiling, yes. My concern would be endo/exotoxins that are heat tolerant. To each his own. Bugs...maybe. Mammals...not me.

Oh for sure, I'm just a sarcastic mofo

seigex said:

Take it easy on him, he's just giving his best Captain Kirk impession

Click to expand...

I wanna hear him singing Megadeth: "Hello, me. Meet... the real me. And my... misfits... way of life...":rockin:

So are you gonna tell people where it came from, or just leave it to your lawyer like the acceptable level of spiders in peanut butter?

Maybe tell them after, like with the duck pond beer. You can tell them you are recreating beer made at the dawn of civilization, must've had some rat poop in there. Plus they just look like roasted grains

I don't give a rats ass what the OP tells people about his beer.

marty1776 said:

You can kill most microbes by boiling, yes. My concern would be endo/exotoxins that are heat tolerant. To each his own. Bugs...maybe. Mammals...not me.

Click to expand...

Endotoxin is everywhere. It is on you now, as we speak, and all over everyone's grain. Exotoxins are heat-labile.

Billy-Klubb said:

I wanna hear him singing Megadeth: "Hello, me. Meet... the real me. And my... misfits... way of life...":rockin:

Click to expand...

Life? What do you mean life? I ain't got a life!

GenIke said:

I don't give a rats ass what the OP tells people about his beer.

Click to expand...

The rats sure gave a crap. Stinks to me:cross:

25518 said:

I apologize I'm. Kind of thinking. As I'm typing. Doing other things. Badly as well. I have a.short window of. Free time to. Enjoy before I. Go to bed. And have to. Get up early. To do it. All over again.

Click to expand...

lol, I just realized all the pauses make me sound like William Shatner reading this.

seigex said:

Take it easy on him, he's just giving his best Captain Kirk impession

Click to expand...

Apparently I wasn't the only person.

Some rat humor from the show Portlandia:

ColoHox said:

Endotoxin is everywhere. It is on you now, as we speak, and all over everyone's grain. Exotoxins are heat-labile.

Click to expand...

You're right. But in a concentration to cause problems? Likely not, depends on your hygiene I guess. My concern would be in toxin causing organisms in the bio-load the feces contains. My two cents-not worth it.

Moths/weevils ok. Poop no is ok.
(although, grain silos are great locations to raise a family if you're a critter and I'm sure there is excrement in each of my sacks of grain.)

Lead poisoning usually solves a beastie problem nicely. Now if you only had one your golden, but don't let yer guard down because it is usually mr and mrs mouse and there happy lil family. I got the 13 gallon screw top fermentor off of Ebay to store my grain. Lil bastid wont chew through that....An my grain stays fresher longer....I'm down with that.

Wheelchair Bob