Advice on using Pilsen Extra Light DME

I brewed my first 5 beers (all IPA's and very hoppy pales) mostly using a steep of grains (typically a combination of three of the following: 2-row, pilsner, carapils, and crystal 10) and 6.6 lbs. of extra light LME. For my 6th batch, I did a partial mash with a lb. each of pilsner, carapils, and crystal 10, but haven't sampled that beer yet. Although they're good, tasty beers, they're not what I'm looking for. I've used some really amazing hop combinations (Galaxy/Citra, Ahtanum/Centennial/Citra/Amarillo, Mosaic/Galaxy/Summit, etc...), but the flavors of the LME (I think) are really detracting from what I'd like the finished product to be.

So, after sampling some beers that I love, and asking their brewers lots of questions, I believe I should be using mostly (around 85% in some cases) Pilsner malts for what I want to produce. Some of the other grains happen to include: flaked oats, munich 10, crystal 20, and victory malt (some in very small quantities).

I had just ordered 10 lbs. of two-row american pale, and a lb. each of vienna, wheat, flaked wheat, and flaked oats, and I have 6 lbs. of pilsen light DME.

I prefer a very light color for what I'm trying to produce, but it's not completely necessary. Ideally, I'm hoping to avoid most/all of the LME "extracty" flavors and caramel aroma/flavor. For 4 of those beers, I used fresh LME from the LHBS, and for the other 2, I used canned, hopped LME. I believe both produced undesirable flavors and aromas for me.

Now for the questions...

1. Is Pilsen light DME (6 lbs.) by itself a good way for me to make single-hop "session pales", or should I use 3 lbs. and do a partial mash with some of the other ingredients I have on-hand?

2. I thought I recalled reading that Pilsner malts need to be boiled longer to ward off something bad. Does that apply to DME?

3. Can someone describe the flavor/aroma differences between Pilsner and 2-row Pale malts? I wish I had more Pilsner on hand to sample. I know I absolutely love a few beers that are mostly Pilsner malts (7venth Sun Intergalactic Pale Ale for example), but I may feel the same way about 2-row pale malt. I love New England Brewing Co.'s Galaxy Pale Ale, and was a pretty big fan of Widmer Brothers' Shaddock IPA and Citra Blonde, when fresh. I assume that at least one of those is much less Pilsner-based.

Any input or advice on a recipe is welcome!

First off, if you are using 2-row for a "steep" it needs to be a partial mash and done properly or you are just wasting the 2-row.

If you are using LME only buy it from places that move volume, it needs to be fresh. I use mostly DME in my brews. Any extract has already been mashed - it really only needs a few minutes in the boil to sanitize. I would also avoid hopped extract.

I use mostly extra light DME and add all the flavor/character through a specialty grains or partial mash to me darker extracts just have that stuff already in it for you, but you have less control.

I would recommend purchasing your ingredients from a place like Northern Brewer or AHS. They do a fair amount of business compared to a LHBS if it is relatively small and the ingredients will be fresher.

Thanks for the response; great points. I'll definitely be doing partial mashes with the 2-row, vienna, wheat, flaked oats, etc...

Anyone have any recommendations for which combination of ingredients (I have on hand) to use for my next pale ale recipes and/or answers to my other questions?

This pilsen DME can make a good session pale, but you still will want to steep some crystal with that.

Here is a recipe, if you like a "light" IPA:


5 gallon batch/full boil

12oz carapils
8oz crystal 75l
8oz carastan

7# extra light DME

1oz chinook (pellet) @60
.5oz summit (pellet) @15
.5oz willamette (pellet) @5
.5oz each willamette and summit @ flameout

Dry hop with .5oz of both Summit and Willamette.

SAF-05 yeast

OG - 1.063
FG - 1.016
IBU - 53
ABV - 6.1%

I was pretty green when I made this recipe and could have used less carapils, but it came out fantastic. It is a borderline pale ale/ipa that attenuated down to just over 1.013. I have a 2 tap keezer and this is in the rotation every 2nd or 3rd batch because it is so well liked. For this reason I have never modified the grain bill.

1) You can do an excellent pale ale with 6 lbs of Pilsen DME, just use some steeping grains to get your color. 8 oz Crystal 40L would do nice to keep the color very light and add some body. You might also try adding 2 lbs DME at the beginning of the boil and then adding the last 4 lbs of DME at flameout, this will help with hop utilization and will help keep your extract from scorching and darkening in color.

2) You shouldn't need to boil any DME to ward off "bad things". It should be fine.

3) They are both very light malts. I think the pilsen gives more of a grainy malt characteristic than the 2-row, but that is just my own 2 cents, other folks that have been doing this longer or have better palates may be able to offer more advice. If you search the forums for "difference between 2-row and pilsen" you will get plenty of good reading on this

You guys rock, thanks! I have a lot of different hops I'm itching to use, and Summit is near the top of my list. Almost all of the hops I've bought so far are citrusy, though, and I don't have Willamette or Chinook.

BBB - "more grainy" is exactly what I was looking for. I think that's one of the main reasons I like it. The fact that the beer was all Galaxy certainly didn't hurt, either!

Great to know about splitting up the DME additions, too!

I don't have any Crystal on hand, unfortunately. What do you guys think of something like this?

Mash 1 lb. vienna malt
30 minute, 4 gallon boil
2 lbs. of pilsen light DME added at 30, 4 lbs. at flameout

.5 oz galaxy at 20
.5 oz galaxy at 10
.5 oz galaxy at 5
1.5 oz galaxy at flameout, cool to 170
1 oz. galaxy for 40 minute hopstand

Looks like it'll come in around 50 IBU and 5.6%.

That looks good, very light in color, although I am coming up with a different IBU calculation with those hop additions. Assuming 13% AA and 4-gallon boil, I was getting in the high-30's. If I bump up the 20 minute addition to a full oz, it looks much closer to 50 (I am getting 48.4 tinseth, 47.3 rager). That is using Brewtarget though, maybe there are some differences between the different programs that would account for the discrepancy.

Either way, I think you'll make a great beer. If you are familiar with what 50 IBU's tastes like according to your brewing software, I'd stick with it.

Oh, it's going to be a 5 gallon batch, but I'm going to boil 4, then top up as needed. I'm using Hopville for calculations. It looks like the AA on these Galaxy are 15.2%, so I'll have to lower my hop additions a little bit. I'm hoping to hear back from a brewery about how many IBUs their galaxy pale is, but I assume it's 45-55.