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traviswalken

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I am fairly new to brewing and trying to put together an IPA recipe. I bought a bunch of hops a few months ago. As I've brewed more batches, I have found that I really love American ales (Pale, brown, IPA) and am not too crazy about English anymore. I would like to use up some of my English hops, but don't want to use them in an American IPA if will throw off the whole batch.

Here are my hops on hand:

Neutral Bittering:
Horizon
Magnum

American:
Simcoe
Citra
Cascade

English:
Willamette
Golding
Fuggles

What would you do? I don't need an exact recipe, just a nudge in the right direction.
 
Willamette is a nice complimentary hop for other varieties. Doesn't matter whether it is an American style or not. You can layer in English varieties into American styles very easily as they tend to be more subtle flavors and give beers a nice base hoppiness. Try mixing in like .5 oz for a 5 gallon batch into your American style finishing hops. You can always use them for bittering too.
 
I am thinking about the following hop schedule:

1 oz Horizon at 60 min (44 IBU)

1 oz Cascade at 10 min (8 IBU)
.5 oz Simcoe at 10 min (8 IBU)

1 oz Cascade at FO
.5 oz Willamette at FO
.5 oz Simcoe at FO

1 oz Willamette DH

Please let me know if you think I am out to lunch. Thanks!
 
traviswalken said:
I am thinking about the following hop schedule:

1 oz Horizon at 60 min (44 IBU)

1 oz Cascade at 10 min (8 IBU)
.5 oz Simcoe at 10 min (8 IBU)

1 oz Cascade at FO
.5 oz Willamette at FO
.5 oz Simcoe at FO

1 oz Willamette DH

Please let me know if you think I am out to lunch. Thanks!
Click to expand...

What kind of grain bill are you considering?

The dry hop with Willamette will give it a very pronounced Willamette aroma, whereas using it during the boil will be a little more subtle.
 
Is that a 5 gallon batch of IPA? If so, I would at least double the hops at the end. What OG and yeast are you going to use? That is important for having the right bitterness. You lose IBU throughout the process. I see about 60 IBU in your hops. With an average gravity IPA of say 1.065, I would bump to 70-80 calculated IBU at least. You lose around 20-30% of calculated IBU throughout fermentation.

My rule of thumb for a 5 gallon batch of IPA is to have 3-4 oz finishing hops(<15 minutes) and 3-4 oz dry hop minimum.
 
boydsbitchinbrews said:
What kind of grain bill are you considering?

The dry hop with Willamette will give it a very pronounced Willamette aroma, whereas using it during the boil will be a little more subtle.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of using the Hoppiness is an IPA grain bill from Brewing Classic Styles:


12.75 lbs. American 2-Row Malt
.75 lb. Munich Malt
1 lb. Crystal Malt (15L)
0.25 lb. Crystal Malt (40L)

As a newish brewer, I am still learning about hops. I have brewed a couple single hops recipes (Cascade & Amarillo), but I have never used Willamette. Maybe I should use only 1/2 oz Willamette in the dry hop???
 
MachineShopBrewing said:
Is that a 5 gallon batch of IPA? If so, I would at least double the hops at the end. What OG and yeast are you going to use? That is important for having the right bitterness. You lose IBU throughout the process. I see about 60 IBU in your hops. With an average gravity IPA of say 1.065, I would bump to 70-80 calculated IBU at least. You lose around 20-30% of calculated IBU throughout fermentation.

My rule of thumb for a 5 gallon batch of IPA is to have 3-4 oz finishing hops(<15 minutes) and 3-4 oz dry hop minimum.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I think I will increase the Simcoe.

After all, I bought hops in bulk a few months ago so I could brew hoppy beers without feeling so bad about the price tag.

I plan to ferment with S-05. OG will be 1.065 - 1.07. My last 4 batches have been session beers, so I want to make this one a little bigger.
 
traviswalken said:
As a newish brewer, I am still learning about hops. I have brewed a couple single hops recipes (Cascade & Amarillo), but I have never used Willamette. Maybe I should use only 1/2 oz Willamette in the dry hop???
Click to expand...

My advice would be to take a big whiff of the Willamette next to some of your beer in a sample tube at the same time, and if you like it, dry hop with the full ounce. That has worked for me when trying out new hops.
 
I would target around 30 IBU in your 60 minute charge, then target another 10-20 IBU in a 30 minute charge of Simcoe. Then throw in 1 oz each at around 10 minutes of Simcoe, Cascade, Willamette. You will have to play around some with this depending on your chilling process and whether you whirlpool hot and for how long. I usually have a 60, 30, 10, and whirlpool addition to my hoppy beers, but I whirlpool hot for 20 minutes after flame out. Don't overlook the 30 minute addition! Flavor hopping is very important for hop balance. You could work in some Cascade and willamette into that 30 minute charge also.

Try to target around 70-80+ calculated IBU by playing around with your additions. You could amp up the simcoe in the late addition also to 2 oz. Then I would dry hop with 2 oz Citra, 2 oz Simcoe for around 5 days at fermentation temps.
 
MachineShopBrewing said:
I would target around 30 IBU in your 60 minute charge, then target another 10-20 IBU in a 30 minute charge of Simcoe. Then throw in 1 oz each at around 10 minutes of Simcoe, Cascade, Willamette. You will have to play around some with this depending on your chilling process and whether you whirlpool hot and for how long. I usually have a 60, 30, 10, and whirlpool addition to my hoppy beers, but I whirlpool hot for 20 minutes after flame out. Don't overlook the 30 minute addition! Flavor hopping is very important for hop balance. You could work in some Cascade and willamette into that 30 minute charge also.

Try to target around 70-80+ calculated IBU by playing around with your additions. You could amp up the simcoe in the late addition also to 2 oz. Then I would dry hop with 2 oz Citra, 2 oz Simcoe for around 5 days at fermentation temps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help. I will rework the recipe when I can get in front of Beersmith and post my results.

Can you explain the importance of whirlpooling? I believe it is stirring the hell out of the wort while it cools, but I don't understand why except to preciptate solids and get some hop bitterness from late additions.

I use a wort chiller and ice bath to cool my wort. Usually takes about 20 - 25 minutes to cool to pitching temps. I am paranoid about contamination, so I leave the lid on during the cooling. I realize I could probably leave the lid off for the first 5 minutes without much risk, but I am paranoid. I stir a couple times in a wirlpool fashion to preciptate hop debris and encourage cooling, but I only do it for about 10 seconds. Maybe I am missing some key to great beer! :confused:

Wh
 
I don't think you are missing anything. I have just built my system and process to replicate as closely as possible a commercial brewing system. I have a 25 gallon kettle that I can pump out and then back into a recirc port on the side in order to whirlpool. Commercial brewers need to whirlpool in order get as much wort out of the kettle as possible. Most use that time to add hops, as the wort is still hot, but not actively boiling and it can retain some more of the hop oils. It will also add bitterness, so I usually calculate my whirlpool hops as 10 minute additions in Beersmith.

You can do the same by just leaving the kettle to sit hot for 20 minutes or so after flameout.

As an aside, I did once brew an all whirlpool hopped beer just to see if you could get enough bitterness from a 20 minute whirlpool, and it turned out that you can. IIRC I used 4 oz of high alpha hop at flameout and didn't knock out until 20 minutes of hot stand. You can hear a small discussion about that beer on the 4-15-12 show of the Brewing Network Sunday Session. I think it is sometime in the third hour IIRC. It was a take on a hoppy red ale, although it is funny on the show as they thought it was an Evil Twin clone, which it wasn't really.
 
traviswalken said:
I was thinking of using the Hoppiness is an IPA grain bill from Brewing Classic Styles:


12.75 lbs. American 2-Row Malt
.75 lb. Munich Malt
1 lb. Crystal Malt (15L)
0.25 lb. Crystal Malt (40L)

As a newish brewer, I am still learning about hops. I have brewed a couple single hops recipes (Cascade & Amarillo), but I have never used Willamette. Maybe I should use only 1/2 oz Willamette in the dry hop???
Click to expand...

I really like cascade and willamette together. Bell's Amber is a good example of that combination.

For a recipe with that much crystal malt in an IPA, I'd do something like this-

I'd bitter with one of the neutral hops, using your grainbill, to about 40 IBUs with that addition, and then for hop it up:

1 oz bittering hops (or to 35-40 IBUs with that addition)
1 oz cascade 15 minutes
1 oz willamette 10 minutes
1 oz cascade 5 minutes
1 oz willamette 0 minutes
Dryhop with 1-2 ounces cascade 5-7 days
 
MachineShopBrewing said:
I don't think you are missing anything. I have just built my system and process to replicate as closely as possible a commercial brewing system. I have a 25 gallon kettle that I can pump out and then back into a recirc port on the side in order to whirlpool. Commercial brewers need to whirlpool in order get as much wort out of the kettle as possible. Most use that time to add hops, as the wort is still hot, but not actively boiling and it can retain some more of the hop oils. It will also add bitterness, so I usually calculate my whirlpool hops as 10 minute additions in Beersmith.

You can do the same by just leaving the kettle to sit hot for 20 minutes or so after flameout.

As an aside, I did once brew an all whirlpool hopped beer just to see if you could get enough bitterness from a 20 minute whirlpool, and it turned out that you can. IIRC I used 4 oz of high alpha hop at flameout and didn't knock out until 20 minutes of hot stand. You can hear a small discussion about that beer on the 4-15-12 show of the Brewing Network Sunday Session. I think it is sometime in the third hour IIRC. It was a take on a hoppy red ale, although it is funny on the show as they thought it was an Evil Twin clone, which it wasn't really.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the whirlpool info.

I listen to a lot of homebrew podcasts (Brew Strong & Basic Brewing) but just started listening to the Sunday Session. I will skip ahead to 4/15 and check it out.

Basic Brewing Radio did some late addition hop IBU experiments. IIRC, they found that none of the IBU formulas do a great job at estimating isomerized alpha acids when hops are added at the end of boil. There were significant variations between the formulas.

Calling flameout additions 10 minute additions in beersmith makes a lot of sense to me. I will start doing that as well.
 
Yooper said:
I really like cascade and willamette together. Bell's Amber is a good example of that combination.

For a recipe with that much crystal malt in an IPA, I'd do something like this-

I'd bitter with one of the neutral hops, using your grainbill, to about 40 IBUs with that addition, and then for hop it up:

1 oz bittering hops (or to 35-40 IBUs with that addition)
1 oz cascade 15 minutes
1 oz willamette 10 minutes
1 oz cascade 5 minutes
1 oz willamette 0 minutes
Dryhop with 1-2 ounces cascade 5-7 days
Click to expand...

Thanks Yooper. It sounds like you are not a fan of the Simcoe/Willamette/Cascade combo. Maybe I'll just keep it simple as suggest.

If I turn my brew day into a double batch day (wife and kids will be out of town so I might go for it), I might try an APA or ABA with the simcoe. What do you suggest I pair with it? I have heard some people compare Simcoe to cat piss, but I have 3 ounces I'd like use.

Maybe Citra?
 
traviswalken said:
Thanks Yooper. It sounds like you are not a fan of the Simcoe/Willamette/Cascade combo. Maybe I'll just keep it simple as suggest.

If I turn my brew day into a double batch day (wife and kids will be out of town so I might go for it), I might try an APA or ABA with the simcoe. What do you suggest I pair with it? I have heard some people compare Simcoe to cat piss, but I have 3 ounces I'd like use.

Maybe Citra?
Click to expand...

My favorite hops pairing is simcoe/amarillo. I love simcoe, but I don't know if I love it with something like willamette. It's great with centennial, cascade, amarillo, chinook, etc, as it seems to really compliment the "citrusy" hops. My favorite IPA recipe has an equal amount of simcoe and amarillo mixed together and added from 25 minutes to the end of the boil. And then it's dryhopped with simcoe and amarillo. That flavor combo just can't be beat.

I'm not much of a fan of citra, but if you like it would work as well.
 

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