First Lambic - Orval and Lindeman's cultures

So I finally took my first dive into lambics.

I followed an average/beginner grain bill and mash schedule for a sour. Primary fermentation was done with a culture of Orval yeast that I have kept going for a while now. After racking off the yeast cake (to keep my orval culture pure-ish) I pitched a starter that I had cultured from Lindeman's Cuvee Rene. That was almost exactly three months ago.

My reason for posting is that as of yet there is no pellicle on the beer.... The starter had a thick pellicle on it and smelled strongly of pineapple and brett funk at the time of pitching.

I pulled a sample just now and it tastes really good, with the pineapple flavors present but more subdued, a good bitterness-funk combo from the high-alpha hops I used and the brett. A tiny bit of malt sweetness remains. Barely detectable acidity/sourness.

I'm beginning to think that no pelicle will ever form... or that the bugs are dead or asleep. Has anybody had a pellicle take this long to form? (or never form?)

I'm aware that 3 months is very young for a sour, but I guess it never hurts to ask!

Any and all input is welcome, Thanks ahead!

Jonathan

A pellicle forms only when there is exposure to oxygen. Was there active fermentation when you added the Cuvee Rene dreg starter and/or is there not much headspace? Whether that's the case or not, lack of pellicle is not a problem.

You're beer might not sour much. Hops impede lacto. If I recall, lambic is primarily soured by pedio. Hops don't impede pedio, but pedio is slower working than lacto. If you start to detect diacetyl that wasn't there before, that means you've got some active pedio. The brett will clean that up.

Best bet at this point is to try not to sample it for another 3 months.

Also, I'm 99% Cuvee Renee is pastuerized, so basically you are fermenting only with Brett. The dregs are dead in the Lindemanns, nothing in there. No wonder there's barely any sourness, there's only the Orval brett in there. Get a pedio culture in there ASAP if you want anything lambic like.

bellmtbbq said:

Also, I'm 99% Cuvee Renee is pastuerized, so basically you are fermenting only with Brett. The dregs are dead in the Lindemanns, nothing in there. No wonder there's barely any sourness, there's only the Orval brett in there. Get a pedio culture in there ASAP if you want anything lambic like.

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Actually, I believe that the Lindeman's Cuvee Rene (both Kriek & Gueuze) are the only ones they don't pasteurize.

dcHokie said:

Actually, I believe that the Lindeman's Cuvee Rene (both Kriek & Gueuze) are the only ones they don't pasteurize.

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I checked another bottle of Cuvee Rene that I have squirreled away and it says that it is refermented in the bottle, so there should be bugs in there - if it's the same as their primary culture i'm not sure. Plus the starter I made of it seemed quite alive indeed.

As for the not sampling again for three months... that was the plan, but it's reasuring to hear that no pellicle is no problem and that if you wait the sourness will come.

Thanks for your input. Maybe in three more months i'll repost with an update.

Cheers!

bellmtbbq said:

Also, I'm 99% Cuvee Renee is pastuerized, so basically you are fermenting only with Brett. The dregs are dead in the Lindemanns, nothing in there. No wonder there's barely any sourness, there's only the Orval brett in there. Get a pedio culture in there ASAP if you want anything lambic like.

Click to expand...

dcHokie said:

Actually, I believe that the Lindeman's Cuvee Rene (both Kriek & Gueuze) are the only ones they don't pasteurize.

Click to expand...

Ditto on dcHokie. I've been meaning to pick up a bottle and see if it's half as good as it used to be. Never seen the kriek.

Cuvee Rene varies wildly based on batch and age. Buy two bottles and stick one in your basement for 2 years.