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Any thoughts?

Sounds to me like you are on the right track. Yeah, the temps will affect your SG readings, but not by a huge amount. If you want, you can use this calculator:

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/hydrometer.html

Wy1010 does tend to get a little stinky during fermentation, but it will wear off. 60 hours is a little slow for Wy1010 to start, but shouldnt be a problem. It usually starts within 24 hours for me. Did you let the smack pack swell up before pitching? I've had a few Wyeast packs that have been slow to swell, and usually if that happens they will be slow to start as well, but they get going eventually. Generally the wheat yeasts will taste better at higher SGs, so are good for making sweeter ciders, while ale yeasts tend to finish a little sticky until they get down to below 1.012 or so (although this is somewhat subjective). If the S04 got to 1.020 in 7 days, you should be hitting 1.010 to 1.005 fairly soon
 
Thanks. I waited longer than I'd have preferred on the S04. Checked this AM and it was at 1.005+/- and a tad dry. Racked and crashing right now. The 1010 still needs a day or two.

The 1010 barely swelled, which I'm sure didn't help! Question ln it though. I smacked it and left it on the kitchen counter for the 3 hours. Should I have put it back in the fridge?
 
I smacked it and left it on the kitchen counter for the 3 hours. Should I have put it back in the fridge?

No - if anything, move it to a slightly warmer place until it swells. Those Wyeast smack packs are fairly temperamental. Sometimes they swell right up and sometimes take forever. Several times I've done two batches with the exact same yeast, same date code, same LHBS so handling was the same, etc. and they never behave the same. If I get one that doesnt swell after a couple hours, I'll set it on top of my computer, which is just slightly warmer than the rest of the room, until it puffs all the way up. Sortofa poor man's stir plate.
 
Hello,

I am doing a little market research before I move forward on introducing a new product to the U.S. Homebrew market. I am planning on releasing an apple cider concentrate that can be used for making hard ciders. The advantage being that it is consistent, available year round, and can be stored for up to a year.

Before I go nuts and start running production I was hoping to get a little feedback from the market. Please let me know what you think of the idea or fill out this survey, so I have some hard data to work off of. Thank you for your help.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TMFSG9M

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TMFSG9M

-Will
 
hi need help on vanilla bourban stout please! i recently built a conical and i'm trying to figure how to add my bourban and vanilla with out a secondary process. can i just dump my yeast once i have reached final gravity and put my bourban into my conical to set for an additional week, then just bottle directltly from the conical?
 
raider72 said:
hi need help on vanilla bourban stout please! i recently built a conical and i'm trying to figure how to add my bourban and vanilla with out a secondary process. can i just dump my yeast once i have reached final gravity and put my bourban into my conical to set for an additional week, then just bottle directltly from the conical?

This seems off topic from the original post, but the short answer is yes. Just add your bourbon and vanilla into the conical.

-John
 
Sorry about that I'm a new brewer and homebrewtalk user. Thanks for the response though!
 
Hello,

I am doing a little market research before I move forward on introducing a new product to the U.S. Homebrew market. I am planning on releasing an apple cider concentrate that can be used for making hard ciders. The advantage being that it is consistent, available year round, and can be stored for up to a year.

Before I go nuts and start running production I was hoping to get a little feedback from the market. Please let me know what you think of the idea or fill out this survey, so I have some hard data to work off of. Thank you for your help.

I've seen something like this at the store. I think it's called "frozen apple juice concentrate."
 
highgravitybacon said:
I've seen something like this at the store. I think it's called "frozen apple juice concentrate."

And it works great to raise the gravity of not from concentrate or reconstituted juice!
 
I've seen something like this at the store. I think it's called "frozen apple juice concentrate."

There was a thread on this a few days back. It was suggested that the concentrates should be special blends of apples, not the run of the mill Granny Smith or Red Delicious. I'd consider some heirloom or cider concentrate blends for boosting my base flavors. But I don't think I'd be willing to pay $30 a qt.
 
Kevin,

Thanks for the thread and great information......two questions if you'd oblige:

Any chance later in the season you might message a list of places you are able to get fresh juice?

Have you ever tried Munton's Gold Yeast? Considering washing a large amount out of a stout that is finishing up to pitch to some cider........thanks
 
I've not used Munton's gold for cider but I have used both types of Munton's (gold and regular) and to be perfectly honest they seem the same to me. I just figured the count was better in the gold and they just nutriented them up before putting them in suspended animation. The only beers I've used them in with the same recipes though came out tasting basically identical so if that's an indicator his normal munton's review would be equivalent.
 
I havent used Munton's Gold and Muntons doesnt publish much in the way of specs. I suspect that Accidic is right about it being essentially the same as their regular Ale yeast. Their regular stuff will rip through cider pretty fast. If you want it really dry, or if you can keep your temps around 60F to slow the ferment down a bit, then it might be workable.

As far as getting juice - I just picked up another 42 gal last week, but AFAIK that was the last pressing that anyone around here is doing for this for this season. Here is a list of orchards in Virginia, a couple of which are close to you. Might be worth calling them to see what they have.

http://www.orangepippin.com/orchards/united-states/virginia

I wont be looking for juice again until next September. If you want to PM me with your email address, I'll let you know when I get juice next next Fall. I usually organize a few group buys with the local homebrew club and get 125 to 250 gal, in order to keep the price down and better selection of apples. Not sure if I'll be doing that again next season or not - but most likely
 
Thanks Kevin. I'll hold temp down at 60F and see how it turns out, I'd rather it not go too dry if I can avoid it.

System wouldnt let me pm you, but Im still a rookie on the site. If you do a group buy Id definitely be interested in making the trip up to get a few carboys filled. I feel like the valley you are in has a lot more variety to offer.
 
I feel like the valley you are in has a lot more variety to offer.

Yep. Just about every valley from here to West Virginia has good apples. 2012 was a nice year for most growers and thousands of new trees have been planted to keep up with demand. Hopefully this coming year will be another good harvest.

One advantage of all the new commerical cideries, is that its extended the juice season a bit. I got 42 gallons just a couple of weeks ago, which is the latest I've every been able to get juice. Juice was Pink Lady, Stayman and Golden Delicious. I was hoping to get some more Winesaps in the mix instead of the GD, but its still a pretty good tasting mix. Lots of apple flavor, just not as much tang as I like, but that can usually be compensated by letting it go a couple points drier.

cider54_zpsa4111057.jpg


I did two batches with Brupaks, one each of Nottingham, S04, US05, S23 and S189. I didnt do any wheat yeasts this time around, mainly because I already had these other ones in the fridge and wanted to use them up. I havent used the S189 before, so I'm taking a bit of a roll of the dice on that one. The others are solid performers. Basement temps have been ranging from 52 to 64 and ferments are going strong - stronger than the previous batch, which took over 2 months to ferment out. Those have all been crashed and are clearing on the back shelves. The pressing before that is in kegs and the two before that are gone, except for a few bottles. In retrospect, making two lager yeast batches at once was not such a great idea. The S23 and S189 are both a little stinky. Its not so noticable in the main room, but behind the bar its pretty strong.
 
Cider is started on the Munton's Gold......and fermenter dialed in to 15.5C(60F) Will see how it goes and report. The yeast cake was very compact and thick so I am hoping it will be easy to cold crash after the cider gets down to about 1.008
Have a guess for how long it should take at that temp? My OG was 1.048

Have you tried the Brupaks on anything besides cider? I see it's your favorite now, and no one is obviously using it much in the states. Makes me want to order some and try it on a beer, mead etc.
 
Have a guess for how long it should take at that temp? My OG was 1.048

I'd guess between 2 and 3 weeks, but you might want to check after 10 days or so. The only time I used Muntons was with a gallon test batch and it went from 1.055 to bone dry in 7 days. This was in early October though, so temps were a bit warmer - mid to upper 60s. Keeping the temp at 60 should extend the time a bit.

Have you tried the Brupaks on anything besides cider?

nope - although there appear to be a lot of folks in the UK that are using it to good effect. Gervins English Ale is another good one from the UK - as near as I can tell, GEA is the same yeast as Notty for 1/3 the price.
 
Kevin...did I buy a few kegs off you through C-list like 2 years ago, at a gas station in C-ville? I had driven down from Baltimore for meetings...the guy said he made hard cider for a living...

Anyway, I got a few pages in and love this thread but I wonder if you could make my life easier and make a couple quick observations...I want a basic semi-sweet carbonated 8%-ish cider, and I can temp control/crash/keg. I'm using your basic AJ from the grocery store with only ascorbic acid added and trying to stay 'all-natural', SWMBO doesn't even want me to use corn sugar (dextrose), just cane. I don't see the difference but she's got her ideas and I'd rather not argue about it. This also means no chemicals later either.

4.5G AJ
1 lb table sugar
1 lb brown sugar
S-04

Would you suggest those amounts/types of sugar (I truly just made it up, given Ed Wort's recipe suggestion)?
Would you suggest a lower ferm temp around 65? And this is to slow fermentation, right?
In your experience, to get a nice not too dry taste what do i want my FG to get down to and how long would it take?

Now more importantly, my plan is to cold crash/rack/cold crash/keg. Do you agree? If I keep it cold I assume she will stay where she's at, but let's say I carbed this up and decided to bottle some later. Could this stuff get warm and not dry out? I know these sound like dumb questions, I'm just trying to get a '10,000 foot view'.
 
Guess 60F wasnt quite cool enough.......just got a gravity off of the cider started morning of the 25th, already at 1.012. 36 points in about 2 days. Taste isn't bad, but nothing to write home about either. Guess Muntons goes to the do not use pile.
 
Kevin...did I buy a few kegs off you through C-list like 2 years ago, at a gas station in C-ville? I had driven down from Baltimore for meetings...the guy said he made hard cider for a living...

No, that sounds like either Tim or Dan from Potter's Craft Cider. When they moved their operation to Cville, they had hundreds of corny kegs, but have been switching to Sankes, which are a lot more expensive but easier for bars and restaurants to handle. The switch was a real boon to local brewers, as they sold their surplus kegs at very reasonable prices. Nice guys, great cider.

Would you suggest those amounts/types of sugar

Sounds about right. I usually shoot for a starting gravity of about 1.065. To my taste a mix of 2/3 turbinado and 1/3 corn sugar tastes more like the natural apple sugar when it ferments out, but it depends what you are going for. The brown sugar will give you a more caramel taste.

Would you suggest a lower ferm temp around 65? And this is to slow fermentation, right?

I've found that 60 to 65 works best for me. Partly this is for convenience. You can ferment at higher temps and it will taste OK but you will have a much smaller time window from when it goes from too sweet to too dry.

In your experience, to get a nice not too dry taste what do i want my FG to get down to and how long would it take?

The target final gravity depends a lot on the juice you are starting with and personal taste. I usually shoot for about 1.010 for myself, 1.020 for SWMBO. That would take about 2-3 weeks at 65F. I'd check it at about 10 days

my plan is to cold crash/rack/cold crash/keg. Do you agree?

That would probably work - I usually do rack/cold crash/rack to 5 gal/let clear and make sure ferment doesnt restart/keg

let's say I carbed this up and decided to bottle some later. Could this stuff get warm and not dry out?

That depends on how successful you were on the crash. Its definitely possible - I've got bottles of semi-sweet carbed cider that have been stored at room temp for several years with no problems. However most people on this site havent had as much success. I suspect that using low nutrient juice - ie low or no fertilizer on the trees - helps a lot. I also keep an eye on my carboys after the crash for at least a month to make sure that they dont start back up. For example, in the above pic, I've got 9 carboys clearing on the back shelves that I crashed about a month ago. 8 are still dead still, but one has a few tiny bubbles coming up now and then. Its barely enough to move the airlock so I'm not worried about it drying out before I keg it, but I'll definitely cold crash that one again before kegging, so it doesnt become a problem in the future. If you keep the keg cold and drink off the tap, then you dont have to worry about whether you really got every last bit of yeast.
 
just got a gravity off of the cider started morning of the 25th, already at 1.012. 36 points in about 2 days.

Wow! good thing you checked it. Sounds like Muntons Gold works even faster than their regular Ale yeast.
 
Thank you for the good info!

I usually do rack/cold crash/rack to 5 gal/let clear and make sure ferment doesnt restart/keg

How long, after you reach your desired gravity and rack/crash/rack, do you usually let it clear or make sure ferment doesn't restart prior to bottling or kegging? And how do you know? Do you just go by sight/clearing or bubbles or do you take a reading every day? And then, if fermentation happens to restart, I guess you rack and cold crash again?
 
How long, after you reach your desired gravity and rack/crash/rack, do you usually let it clear or make sure ferment doesn't restart prior to bottling or kegging?

I usually let them sit and clear for a month after the crash, although sometimes if I'm low on cider (usually after first pressing of the season) I'll go right into the keg after the crash.

And how do you know? Do you just go by sight/clearing or bubbles or do you take a reading every day?

I go by sight. If there are any bubbles, then I'll check with a hydro once a week or so to make sure its not just malolactic fermentation (which it often is).

And then, if fermentation happens to restart, I guess you rack and cold crash again?

If that happens, I'll crash again and then rack after the crash. I always rack before the first crash because its best to eliminate the vast majority of the yeast which will at the bottom of the carboy before crashing. If the ferment starts back up again, then the pre-crash rack doesnt buy you as much, because there will be a lot less trub on the bottom and the yeast could be anywhere.
 
I mentioned this in a couple of earlier posts - but if you can find a used set of "brew balls", these are really handy for tracking when its time to crash without having to take lots of readings. They have saved my butt a few times when batches fermented out a lot faster than what I was expecting. I dont think they are being sold anymore but sometimes you will see them on CL or ebay. You can also use them after the crash to make sure that the gravity isnt dropping any more.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/re...ar-experiments-83060/index70.html#post4546814
 
They're still being sold but are out of stock at the moment.

Sadly, their website has said the same thing for the past several years. I dont think its been updated since 2009 - although I'm hoping that they are not gone for good. Maybe if enough people emailed them, there might be enough interest to produce another run.

I'm not crazy about the gravity options of them but they're still a great idea.

Yep, the stock gravity options were a weak spot, which I think gets to PP's question as to why they are not being made any longer. The range just wasnt useful for most beer makers, so no one took them seriously. I only found out about them because some guys in my local brew club were making fun of them. If they had made a set in the range of say 1.006 to 1.014, in 0.002 increments, that would be a lot more useful for things like high gravity beers and meads which take longer to finish out (and of course, cider). There needs to be an advantage for the serious brewers, because if a product gets a rep as 'for noobs only' its not going to last long in the market. I was fortunate to find out about them while they were still in business and got them to make me a whole range of useful values. I mostly use 1.018 and 1.012 for ale yeasts. 0.020 and 1.015 for most wheat yeasts. When the 2nd ball drops, I'll do a taste test. Based on the time between when the two balls drop, I'll have a pretty good idea of how fast the ferment is going and how long I want to wait before crashing.

Using the 1.020 and 1.010 balls from the stock set would be worthwhile for cider, particularly if you can pick them up cheap, because yeah, the other values are not all that helpful. Maybe the 1.005 if you like em dry
 
Well I don't think they should replace the hydrometer, but a neat idea to know when you are in the neighborhood of a reading. That way you don't have to pull samples all the time.

The "cool" kids can go get stuffed..haha
 
Well I don't think they should replace the hydrometer, but a neat idea to know when you are in the neighborhood of a reading. That way you don't have to pull samples all the time.

Exactly! its a huge time saver and reduces oxygen contact.

The "cool" kids can go get stuffed..haha

Agreed, but if you are trying to sell a product, its a lot easier if the cool kids are on your side.
 
I called the makers of the brew balls a couple months ago and he said that they were making new one in different specific gravity ranges. I hope they come sooner than later. But we've been waiting a few years now.
 
I went to one a few years ago. It was interesting, but more geared to the commercial cider maker. I see that this year they have a session for home cider making, which should be interesting. Their ciders are all very good, although a little drier than I like. If you like em dry and looking for tips on how to make a nice flavorful dry cider, then definitely worth the trip. Also very useful for anyone with their own orchard, as the Sheltons are always experimenting with different varieties and consistently get higher sugar levels from the same varieties of apples than anyone around that I know. They sometimes have extra fresh juice available which tends to be pricey but excellent quality. Depending on who else shows up, you might pick up a few more fresh juice connections for next season.
 
Kevin, recieved some Brupaks in the mail and working to put together a cider plan, albeit with store bought varieties initially. The website has: " Brupaks Genuine Real Ale Yeast. Suitable for all ale styles and some lagers. Ferments well at low temperatures (down to 10°C) and has a high alcohol tolerance (up to 12% a.b.v.)"

I can dial in an exact temp to ferment........any thoughts on where you see best results?

Will the yeast stop at a certain level of residual sugar, or do I need to watch and stop it where I want it?

Also planning to try the Muntons Gold again. Now that it has aged, cleared and kegged I cant keep people off of the 3 gallon batch I did. Although it did retain a little bit of hoppy flavor from the yeast cake I pitched the cider on. Actually turned out very good for how fast it fermented. It stopped at 1.010 with no intervention or chilling.

Thanks
 
I can dial in an exact temp to ferment........any thoughts on where you see best results?

I've had best results in the range of 60 to 65F

Will the yeast stop at a certain level of residual sugar, or do I need to watch and stop it where I want it?

Sometimes they will stop on their own if the nutrient level gets low, but you cant count on that. I watch and stop mine.

Actually turned out very good for how fast it fermented. It stopped at 1.010 with no intervention or chilling.

Great! Yeah for how fast it fermented, you were lucky that it stopped. I did a batch with the regular Muntons and it went bone dry
 
So I bought 23 liters of locally produced, not from concentrate, pasteurized apple juice the other day to make cider. They came in 945ml PETE bottles, and though it is unlike me, because I have two other batches of beer on the go, I intend on bottling it the original bottles (I double checked, they are 100% PET and have the number '1' inside the universal recycling symbol). I WAS planning on making this tomorrow, and using Lalvin 1118 (as I much prefer dryer ciders), until I came across this thread. This is my first time making cider other than from a Mangrove Jack's extract kit. I planned on taking 2 or 3 liters of the juice, bringing it JUST too a boil, and dissolving a KG of dextrose to boost gravity (though a friend of mine insists on using dark brown sugar for the flavor). Then just topping up, and fermenting in a bucket (as I hear secondary is unnecessary for cider, and I don't have a funnel large enough for my carboys, though I suppose I could just siphon it all into one before pitching my yeast?). How does this sound to you Cville? What type of sugar would you recommend dissolving? How long do these ciders tend to take to ferment before bottling? And would you recommend 1118 for those that prefer dryer ciders, or would you still go with an ale yeast? Thanks so much mate.

Cheers ! :mug:
 
So I bought 23 liters of locally produced, not from concentrate, pasteurized apple juice the other day to make cider.

Just wondering where you got your cider from? I'm from Halifax myself and I've usually found the OG to be to my liking without adding extra sugar. Having said that, what I buy is often late season cider that has a large proportion of golden russet. Using Lalvin-1118 on a cider with an OG of 1.055 or thereabouts makes for a hearty alcohol content.
 
Just wondering where you got your cider from? I'm from Halifax myself and I've usually found the OG to be to my liking without adding extra sugar. Having said that, what I buy is often late season cider that has a large proportion of golden russet. Using Lalvin-1118 on a cider with an OG of 1.055 or thereabouts makes for a hearty alcohol content.

When I say 'locally produced apple juice' I just mean't good old canned Graves :p (which come in plastic bottles now).
 
Just wondering where you got your cider from? I'm from Halifax myself and I've usually found the OG to be to my liking without adding extra sugar. Having said that, what I buy is often late season cider that has a large proportion of golden russet. Using Lalvin-1118 on a cider with an OG of 1.055 or thereabouts makes for a hearty alcohol content.

Just took the SG of the Grave's apple juice. Too my surprise it's already at 1.050. Using 1118, should I even bother adding extra sugars?
 
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