how many feet do I need ?

Ok I feel really dumb asking this question and I'm relying on the generosity and the knowledge of my fellow HBT'ers on this one. Some of you out there may have just read my new Keezer build thread I made about a month ago but, I'm running into a problem I just can't seem to wrap my head around. BTW I am really bad when it comes to math. The keezer is fine and I could not be happier with it but for the fact of the excessive foaming from the taps. I know there is a formula based on the amount of resistance of beverage line diameter at a certain temperature for a specific volume of CO2 desired. I'm absolutely lost. Period. just lost. When I just had a chest freezer and the kegs in and running 6 feet of 1/4" ID tubing it was ok never great but nothing like now.... I have to wait like 5 minutes and fill my glass 3-4 times till the foam settles. So I guess my question is this.... I want to remain at 1/4" ID tubing ( I know 3/16" provides more resistance ) as my tailpieces and keg couplers are all setup for 1/4" and I run my keezer between 37-40 degrees F and at appx 10 psi. Could someone please be kind enough and tell me the footage I need so my beer doesn't foam as much. I really would truly appreciate it. Thanks and sorry for the dumb question.

You need 30 feet of 1/4" ID line. And if you don't already have a stirring fan that runs 24/7 in your keezer, I recommend you get one once you string that much line.

Otoh, sanity might grip you, and you'll put 10 feet of 3/16" Bevlex 200 tubing over your 1/4" barbs with hardly any effort at all, and be done with it. Though the stirring fan is still recommended...

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

You need 30 feet of 1/4" ID line. And if you don't already have a stirring fan that runs 24/7 in your keezer, I recommend you get one once you string that much line.

Otoh, sanity might grip you, and you'll put 10 feet of 3/16" Bevlex 200 tubing over your 1/4" barbs with hardly any effort at all, and be done with it. Though the stirring fan is still recommended...

Cheers!

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And here's the messed up thing about that ...... I could have sworn I had 3/16" lines..... I had one heck o a time getting the lines onto 1/4" tailpieces and cursed getting 1/4" tailpieces... Today when I looked at the line it says 1/4" Id 7/16" OD. I said to myself WTF why was it so hard then to get these lines on the shank.

so if I understand you correct though I should be able to fit a 3/16" line onto a 1/4" shank and keg coupler ? I would much rather use 3/16" and only 10 feet of tube per line than run a combined total of 90' of tube between 3 taps.

and yes I do run a computer fan mounted to a piece of 3" PVC directly in the middle of the three kegs that runs constant, though I could wire it to run only when the compressor turns on as well. Hvac and electrical I know but for some reason figuring this bev line baffles me..... I understand the formula but in practicality it just doesn't make sense.

Bevlex 200 is actually pretty stretchy, I do believe you wouldn't bust a nut working it onto 1/4" barbs. Otoh, the uber-premium Bev Seal Ultra series 235 stuff might actually kill you

Imo, you want a stirring fan to run constantly to avoid stratification...

Cheers!

Bevlex 200 is a little water heated in the microwave for 40 seconds or so. Soak the tube and it slips right on. The secret to the Ultra is to cut it square, insert a warm torx or phillips shaft into the end to get the glass lining and outer tubing to flare out a bit. Then heat your fitting and the end section of the tube, mostly your just heating the fitting. The tube will just barely slip on. Then you continue heating the fitting, a little more of the tube, and push on a little further, take your time and repeat, the tubing will be perfect. In 9 years I've tried a few types of tubing and the Ultra is the way to go... it's also the cheapest per foot.

iaefebs said:

Bevlex 200 is a little water heated in the microwave for 40 seconds or so. Soak the tube and it slips right on. The secret to the Ultra is to cut it square, insert a warm torx or phillips shaft into the end to get the glass lining and outer tubing to flare out a bit. Then heat your fitting and the end section of the tube, mostly your just heating the fitting. The tube will just barely slip on. Then you continue heating the fitting, a little more of the tube, and push on a little further, take your time and repeat, the tubing will be perfect. In 9 years I've tried a few types of tubing and the Ultra is the way to go... it's also the cheapest per foot.

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This. All of it.

One last consideration: from what I've read often enough, you need a lot more of the Bev Seal Ultra than the Bevlex 200 (like twice the length?) so I would keep that in mind when ordering. It'd be a ***** to go through all the trouble of installing new lines and end up with foamy pours again

Cheers!

Ok I just got off the phone with a HBS I use over in PA Keystone homebrew supply and according to them they are very confident that the 3/16" tubing will definitely fit my 1/4" barbs that's a great sign to start with but now here's my million dollar question.... according to their calculator which he was nice enough to use for me he is telling me that 5-6' of 3/16" is all I need to have up to 15 to 18 pounds of resistance at 40 degrees.. does this sound right to everyone before I purchase it ? I see most people running 10-12' and they are recommending 1/2 the length that I see everyone else running in their setups. Thanks.

If you start with the longer length and find you it doesn't work like you thought, you can always cut it down. If you start short, well....

I'm pretty sure you will want your beverage line to be about 10 feet.

Aschecte said:

[...]does this sound right to everyone before I purchase it ?

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No. They're just spouting the same BS that virtually every "line length calculator" tells them.

I see most people running 10-12' and they are recommending 1/2 the length that I see everyone else running in their setups. Thanks.

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Ayup. Because the people you're "seeing" have acquired experience that tells them those line calculators aren't worth the bytes they consume.

Sometime it's best to just follow the herd...

Cheers!

Aschecte said:

Ok I just got off the phone with a HBS I use over in PA Keystone homebrew supply and according to them they are very confident that the 3/16" tubing will definitely fit my 1/4" barbs that's a great sign to start with but now here's my million dollar question.... according to their calculator which he was nice enough to use for me he is telling me that 5-6' of 3/16" is all I need to have up to 15 to 18 pounds of resistance at 40 degrees.. does this sound right to everyone before I purchase it ? I see most people running 10-12' and they are recommending 1/2 the length that I see everyone else running in their setups. Thanks.

Click to expand...

They are using the standard equations/calculators for commercial systems. The only thing those calculators are good for is calculating the line length required to result in a flow rate of ~1gal/min. This works ok where the beer temp is kept very cold (<38°) and carb levels under ~2.8 vol. For warmer or more highly carbed beer, the flow needs to be slowed down to keep the CO2 from breaking out of solution. Since line resistance decreases as flow rate decreases, you need much longer lines to slow the pour down even a small amount.

I suggest longer lines for several reasons:

1) 40° is a common serving temperature around here, and most people (myself included) have found that 1 gal/min causes excessive foaming at this temp.

2) The only disadvantage to longer lines is a slightly slower pour, and unless you're running a busy commercial bar, it likely doesn't matter much if it takes an extra 2-4 seconds to pour a pint.

3) It's much easier and cheaper to cut a couple feet off of a line that's too long than it is to replace a line that's too short.

4) Longer lines create a more flexible system, capable of serving a wider variety of carbonation levels and temperatures. If you ever end up increasing your serving temp, or possibly carbing a Belgian or hefe to style, you'll be very glad for the extra length.

FWIW there's only one line length calculator I know of that doesn't assume a flow rate of 1gal/min. It actually accounts for the fact that line resistance is a function of flow rate, and allows you to choose your desired flow rate (in terms of how long it takes to fill a pint), and then tells you the line length required to achieve that.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApGb-vIKLq7FdGtzN3BrY2xZSldORzQ2bHVVX0hzaEE#gid=0

For 40° and moderate carb levels, I'd suggest a pint fill time no faster than 10 seconds.