Is this normal? (pics from 10th day in primary)

I'm working on my 3rd & 4th batch of cider, these are most likely going to be caramel apple hard cider from upstatemike (or close, anyway). I only put in a pound of dextrose in each carboy, 5 gallons of juice each from a local orchard, nottingham ale yeast.... fermenting around 60F (59-62).

I've done two batches prior, first was just cider & yeast, the 2nd was caramel apple hard cider... both of them were racked into secondary though while there was still activity in the airlocks...this one I figured I'd leave in primary a bit longer (until airlock activity stops).

Check out these pics - I'm sure it's fine, but it's new to me

Totally normal, though not common. What you're seeing there is the pectins in the juice congealing. Some falls to the bottom and settles out, while some traps CO2 from the fermentation and rises to the top.

Do some searching on 'keeving' for more details if you're interested.

Ive read the term several times but I'm still new and it hasn't sunk in yet. I'll look into it again. Thanks.

It looks like I got lucky! From what I read it looks like I should start transferring it to a secondary right away....

"Racking the clear juice from between the chapeau and the sediment can be something of a challenge, but is made easier by translucent HDPE tanks with bottom taps and a small pump. In traditional designs for French cider factories the keeving tanks were set up above ground level, so that the keeved juice could be gently drawn off by gravity from below the ‘chapeau’. This operation should not be rushed, and the potentially fragile cap should not be allowed to break up. The cap can vary in firmness and crustiness quite considerably and not all the keeved juice will be easily recovered. Sometimes it is possible to let the cap re-form and take a second crop of juice after a couple of days. But some irretrievable volume loss must be expected during keeving. It is also critical to watch the process daily and to rack off just before the cap begins to break up and to fall back into the vat. If you are a hobby cidermaker and this point is reached on a Tuesday, it may be too late if you wait until you have more time at the weekend. By then, all may be lost!"

http://www.cider.org.uk/keeving.html

...not sure what's going on with the batch on the left, I'll rotate the bottle & see if it the same thing. Thanks for the help, and any further advice would be appreciated.

Looks like more of the material is rising to the top on the right carboy, & it's continuing to 'congeal' or whatever is happening in the left carboy. I'm going to continue observing this, I have a sanitized carboy ready to secondary as soon as I feel it's ready to transfer.



From left to right: Cider, Cider, DFH 60 minute IPA clone from Extreme Brewing, Belgain Wit from SCBS

the cider in the left carboy is definitely keeving as of this morning!!!



The batch went in 4/2/2013, 99% sure it was pasteruized, the bottles were warm when I picked them out of the orchard's retail fridge, they'd just warmed a batch they'd frozen last fall (they won't fill carboys). I left them out for ~4 hours before simply pouring the cider into the carboys, poured 1# dextrose & 1 packet of Nottingham ale yeast per bottle and washed it down. I used my 8" strainer inside of the funnel to aerate the cider as I poured it in...... it was sanitized but I've run a few batches of wort through it in the same fashion.

The right carboy is remarkably clear, almost like water with food coloring or maybe Jameson's single malt whiskey

Not helpful, but the one with the light behind it looks like a nebula or something... cool pic

Looks really good. Can't wait to see how racking goes.

Komocabo said:

the one with the light behind it looks like a nebula or something... cool pic

Click to expand...

I had the same thought when i saw it, very strange looking.
I'm only on my third batch using store bought juice and never had this happen so i know i'm no help

So, are you gonna rack it and try for a keeved cider?

LeBreton said:

So, are you gonna rack it and try for a keeved cider?

Click to expand...

May as well! If the next batches do the same thing I'll do it again too and build up a supply. If by some chance it keeps doing this I'll keep making it and just do separate batches of alpenwine(sp) etc.

I thought the one on the right was ready to rack but the next morning a chunk of the stuff on the bottom rose to the top - I was going to see if the rest of the stuff would float.

I don't know jack about what I'm doing here, so if you or anyone else has a suggestion or guidance for me I'd love to hear it. At this point I'm just watching what's going on with great interest. Seems like it'll be pretty hard to mess up.

I screwed it up already!! According to this article I was supposed to rack it @ 1.03, well it's 1.01 already! Damn! O'well

The fermometer (strip thermometer) raised to 61-62F and I noticed a lot more activity (fine foamy bubbles on top) yesterday, maybe I missed it.

The OG on both batches was 1.069

If the keeving has been successful, however, the clear juice between the top cap and the bottom sediment is very carefully pumped or syphoned into another pre-sulphited fermentation vat. It is now allowed to ferment under an air-lock in the normal way (with its own yeast), but this fermentation will be very slow because most of the nutrients in the juice will have been left behind in the cap and in the sediment. Because the pectin is negatively charged, but the nutrients such as thiamine and asparagine (the major amino acid in apple) are positively charged, the nutrients are attracted to the pectin gel and hence removed from the system. Scientific studies have shown that the pectin and the amino nitrogen nutrients are reduced by at least 50% during keeving. The number of yeast cells is also substantially lowered by entrapment. With the slow resulting fermentation it should be no problem to make a naturally sweet cider, by racking initially at S.G. 1.030 and racking again later to ensure the the fermentation slows down to an almost imperceptible crawl (less than one degree loss per week). Eventually the ciders are bottled on a cool high-pressure day to retain the maximum gas and minimum suspended yeast, and they slowly continue to develop ‘condition’ in the bottle.

It is pretty tasty though!

I thank you for your help, and everyone else for their interest.