Coffee

If you brew beer that you steeped coffee in while boiling the wort, will the end product be a caffeinated drink, or will it just taste like coffee?

Both. You will get coffee flavor and the caffeine just like when you brew coffee.

How do I ensure that it remains caffeinated and doesn't loose strength? Is simply being sealed enough?

I wouldn't boil it in, you get astringent acids that way.

Best way is to cold steep the coffee and add it either before the pitch or after fermentation...I prefer after fermentation myself.

I've heard people say that, but the BYO Founders Breakfast Stout clone has coffee being added to the boil. I just brewed it up a few weeks ago, so we'll see how it goes.

I've also brewed a coffee stout with brewed coffee (cooled overnight) then added to secondary that turned out great.

I then did a cold steep of coffee grounds overnight with the coffee filtered off and then added to secondary. This one didn't seem as good to me and the only thing I can think is that I'm so used to brewed coffee (I've never drank cold steeped coffee) that I was just missing the things I normally get in brewed coffee - even if those things might be considered negatives. Not really sure though. So I'd recommend trying both and see what you like.

Add the beans to the secondary the same way you would dry hop. This will get you the best flavor, IMO.

A7X said:

How do I ensure that it remains caffeinated and doesn't loose strength? Is simply being sealed enough?

Click to expand...

Do you really care that you have caffeinated beer? I don't have the math handy, but there really isn't much caffeine by the time you dilute it down to 5 gallons that I wouldn't even worry about the caffeine.

If you are talking coffee flavor, in the FBS clone I mentioned in my previous post, I added the coffee at the end of the boil and then cooled as normal. I just transferred it to secondary and it had plenty of coffee aroma. I'm also going to add 2 oz more to secondary before bottling. If you are really worried about losing the coffee flavor, you could do that.

mtnagel, how much did you add at the end of the boil? I just brewed an oatmeal coffee stout where I cold extracted 4oz of coffee for 24 hours then added that to the last few minutes of the boil. The coffee flavor was a bit harsh (I use a premium coffee that I drink regularly) and completely overtook the flavor of the stout. Next time I do this, I am going to add the beans to secondary instead of of adding to the boil. I have found (and heard) that anytime you boil the beans you will get some harshness out of the coffee. Maybe I added to much. Its a great beer now that its aged on some bourbon soaked oak chips.

I just added around an oz of coarsely ground coffee beans inside a fine mesh hop bag, and placed in secondary for 24 hrs. No harsh flavors, and I got what I would call a medium level of coffee taste imparted.

I wouldn't mess with boiling the coffee or adding grounds to mash/boil.

TahoeRy said:

mtnagel, how much did you add at the end of the boil? I just brewed an oatmeal coffee stout where I cold extracted 4oz of coffee for 24 hours then added that to the last few minutes of the boil. The coffee flavor was a bit harsh (I use a premium coffee that I drink regularly) and completely overtook the flavor of the stout. Next time I do this, I am going to add the beans to secondary instead of of adding to the boil. I have found (and heard) that anytime you boil the beans you will get some harshness out of the coffee. Maybe I added to much. Its a great beer now that its aged on some bourbon soaked oak chips.

Click to expand...

I added 2 oz ground coffee at the end of the boil and will at 2 oz ground coffee to secondary per the BYO FBS clone recipe. I won't be tasting this for at least 6 weeks, so I won't know till then.

ETA: Many people have successfully added coffee at flame out in this thread about the FBS clone too.

I wouldn't boil the coffee in wort for the same reason you'd never make a cup of coffee by boiling it: it's yucky. But truth be told, our coffee additions to beer are so dilute that it may not make much of a difference.

Regardless, I prefer to let the wort cool a bit after the boil, then steep the coffee for like 3 minutes at 180F - 190F, which is the temperature you'd normally brew coffee at. Works well. Two different additions just overly-complicates things. Just do one addition using one method, then you can easily fine tune the amount next time around.

p.s. 2 oz ground coffee (per 5-gal) after flameout will give you a very strong coffee flavor that takes a couple months to mellow. I've used more and found it disgusting. 1.7 oz in an imperial stout works well for me.

Google tells me that coffee is normally brewed at 195 - 205F. So do you really think there is that much difference between brewing coffee at 205F and 212F? So I wouldn't call coffee that I normally brew at 205 great and coffee that is brewed at ~212F "yucky", that's for sure.

And your "disgusting" at 1.7 oz coffee for an imperial stout might be not enough compared to my 4 oz coffee in a coffee stout, right? It all depends on the style.

mtnagel said:

So do you really think there is that much difference between brewing coffee at 205F and 212F? So I wouldn't call coffee that I normally brew at 205 great and coffee that is brewed at ~212F "yucky", that's for sure...

Click to expand...

Keep googling and you'll figure out what happens when you boil coffee grounds. Or just try it and drink it. But again, at this level of dilution it may not matter much.

mtnagel said:

...And your "disgusting" at 1.7 oz coffee for an imperial stout might be not enough compared to my 4 oz coffee in a coffee stout, right? It all depends on the style.

Click to expand...

Yes! But more importantly, it depends on personal preference. If you like 4 oz, then great.

I added 4oz if coffee to my stout and it was way to much. If I want a cup of coffee ill use my coffee maker. I just want hints of coffee that compliment my beer, not take it over. Because of this I'm going to try 2oz next time.

There is a difference in brewing coffee at 170, 190, 200, 212. And it depends on how long it is at that temp. When I brew a cuppa in my aeropress I prefer 170 degrees for 2.5 minutes. Much hotter or longer than that tastes bitter to me.

geoffm33 said:

There is a difference in brewing coffee at 170, 190, 200, 212. And it depends on how long it is at that temp. When I brew a cuppa in my aeropress I prefer 170 degrees for 2.5 minutes. Much hotter or longer than that tastes bitter to me.

Click to expand...

Sure, you can taste them at 100% coffee (though I'm sure I couldn't taste the differences after I add a bit of cream and splenda )

But would you be able to taste those differences at 0.625% or 0.3125% of coffee in 5 gallons of an imperial stout??

mtnagel said:

Sure, you can taste them at 100% coffee (though I'm sure I couldn't taste the differences after I add a bit of cream and splenda )

But would you be able to taste those differences at 0.625% or 0.3125% of coffee in 5 gallons of an imperial stout??

Click to expand...

Point taken! Probably not.

Cheers! I'll update this after I drink my FBS clone with 2 oz at flame out.

I've done a lot of research on the topic. The key to flameout additions is cooling the wort to 205 F (some sources say 208F) or less before adding the coffee to avoid harsh extractions. Adding whole beans to secondary adds a lot of aroma, and less flavor. One of my favorite beers to date though, was one where I did cold press and beans in the secondary.

Herky21 said:

... Adding whole beans to secondary adds a lot of aroma, and less flavor....

Click to expand...

Whole (unground) beans? Surely that's a typo because it's guaranteed the outside surface will be oxidized. If that worked, you'd expect coffee nerds to make coffee with unground beans.

SpeedYellow said:

Whole (unground) beans? Surely that's a typo because it's guaranteed the outside surface will be oxidized. If that worked, you'd expect coffee nerds to make coffee with unground beans.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by the outside of the bean being oxidized. The point of using whole beans is an intense increase in aroma.

Obviously, coffee lovers don't use whole beans because water can't get in there and make coffee in 3-5 minutes. However, the alcohol and time aging the beans does extract the aroma. The coarseness effects the speed of the extraction when you are making coffee. Aging beer, is a practice that involves patience.

I liked the whole beans so the process would go slowly. I'm sure a light breaking of the beans would work well too to make it go faster.

I have also heard that whole beans in secondary is the way to go. The Dayman ale from Stone and Alemen shows a video of them throwing the whole beans into the secondary. I would be tempted to grind them up for more surface area but you might not get as good of a flavor out of them that way.

Herky21 said:

...
I liked the whole beans so the process would go slowly. I'm sure a light breaking of the beans would work well too to make it go faster.

Click to expand...

So when using whole beans, you steep for hours or days? I can see how that could work. What kind of beers have you used this for? Sounds like an interesting way to use coffee for a low-gravity non-stout.

SpeedYellow said:

So when using whole beans, you steep for hours or days? I can see how that could work. What kind of beers have you used this for? Sounds like an interesting way to use coffee for a low-gravity non-stout.

Click to expand...

Yes steep for days, like hops. I used it in a low gravity breakfast stout.

Herky21 said:

Yes steep for days, like hops. I used it in a low gravity breakfast stout.

Click to expand...

How much whole beans would you add for 5 gallons? More than ground I would imagine to make up for less surface area

Oops forgot to reply to this. I believe I used 8 oz. But ill have to double check my notes

8 oz of whole beans in the secondary for 5 gallons? I am planning a coffee stout and want to make sure I understand. Also, I think I would add to the primary after a week or so of fermentation just to avoid the secondary.

beerclone said:

8 oz of whole beans in the secondary for 5 gallons? I am planning a coffee stout and want to make sure I understand. Also, I think I would add to the primary after a week or so of fermentation just to avoid the secondary.

Click to expand...

Oops. I just did a coffee ale with a pound of coffee and looked at the wrong thing. For a Breakfast stout I used 2 oz. of whole beans in secondary and 2 cups of cold press.