I like cloudy beer!

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Cider123

Cider123

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I am a rookie brewer (but a veteran beer drinker:ban:)

Am I the only guy that doesn't want crystal clear beer? Even in non-wheat beers?

I don't understand the great concern with beer that is not completely clear. It seems that a lot of people are on a constant search to make crystal clear beer. If that is important to you then so be it, I'm not going to knock what other people prefer.
But I have a mindset when it comes to the visual aspect of beer. My mind sees a completely clear beer and thinks...less substantial, thin, watery. Now that might be the opposite of what the beer is really like, but that is what that visual presentation hits me with. When I see a hazy/cloudy beer, my mind goes to homemade, body, greater mouthfeel, etc. Maybe because wheats are cloudy and tend to have greater body because of the flaked wheat and such. Maybe it's because most of BMC is crystal clear.
Anyway, I have some blondes, like the Centennial blonde, and I like that it has some cloudiness to it. The same with my bitters, ESB, and future siasons.

Anyone else?
 
Clear beer is percieved as a properly brewed beer. They also taste cleaner. So you're in the minority on this one insomuch as thinking all beers are better cloudy. They're not.
 
Eh, I prefer my beers to be clear. It gives me an indication that the beer is clean, free from sediment, and well made.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
 
I prefer my beer to be clear.

It's just an aesthetics thing usually. When I have dinner, I don't like just a big glob of food on my plate either- I make it look really appealing. It seems like I enjoy a restaurant meal even more when it's visually appealing.

The same is true with beer. Maybe it would taste the same, but I won't drink a murky beer. A little haze is ok, especially if it's a hops haze or in a wheat beer, but I normally want my beers crystal clear.
 
i drink in a plastic cup most times since i'm outside or in the garage, so i can't see if it's clear or not. LOL tastes good, then i drink it!!
 
I try to brew to style guidelines; most of the time that involves a clear beer.

Sounds like someone is trying to convince themselves that their process is "just fine" even though it is resulting in cloudy beer.

A BOS prize I just won is going to allow me to brew a 10 BBL batch of my pilsner at a brewpub. I've had their pilsners before and they've been a bit cloudy. This troubles me; I don't like the thought of being associated with a pils that isn't crystal clear.
 
Hey if you prefer a bit of haze then go for it.
Normally mine aren't crystal clear simply because I have poor time management skills and one keg blows before the next is truly ready so I cut short the settling phase and drink it young :-D
Part of it is color dependent for me - only the really light beers need to be clear, anything darker and I can appreciate the haze. But to be honest, that's for my home brews - when I drink someone else's I'd rather it be clearer simply so I know they're not giving me the last of the keg (I know, that's a double standard, oh well).
 
Personally I could gives a rats hairy hiney if the beer is clear or not. Cool if it is, cool if it's not. You know what matters to me? TASTE. I get all the guideline stuff and all that. Just me though. Most of my beers are a bit cloudy or hazy. So what. No one is judging them in a competition. It is me and my friends and all we care about is the taste. But on the other hand if you are going for a clear beer more power to you. To each their own. Enough of this squabbling. Now it's time to drink my beer because beer tastes fantastic and it makes me feel funny. :drunk:
 
Cloudy beer to me means it's not done yet, probably will upset my stomach. Go ahead and drink it cloudy if you want, but not me.
 
I only make a minimal effort to clear up my beer (whirlfloc in the boil, careful racking, and cold crashing when I remember or can). This is mostly just to reduce sediment. I don't really care what it looks like, as long as it tastes good. A lot of good commercial beers aren't crystal clear.
 
I wouldn't like my beer any better or worse because of clarity. It would be nice to have a clear beer if it happened to come out that way with no extra work on my part (ie: filtering, extended cold crashing).
In my case I have many other things that need to be addressed regarding my beer before clarity.
 
I'm with you there - I generally prefer a cloudy beer.
I am however, testing some irish moss, and will probably try out some other methods, just to get the process down and satisfy myself that I can produce a clear beer, but once I am confident I know what I'm doing, I'll likely back off and let the homebrew show off a little haze.
 
I've been kicking around an idea I had pop into my head the other day. I do PB/PM BIAB,& not being able to vorlaghf always bugs me. So I thought,keep doing the partial mash in my SS BK/MT as usual. Then pull the grain bag & place in collander as usual. But have the collander on to of another SS kettle (we have a nested set of four) to drain. Take the main mash kettle of wort & strain it into another kettle so I can clean out the gunk in the sink.
Then put the collander with grain bag on top of the strainer & pour the wort & top off water slowly through that. The collander has a small round base on it that'll fit in the strainer,so it might be reasonably stable with an extra hand. I thought this might help clear the wort a bit & thus help with removing excess proteins,hop gunk,etc to keep the beer clearer come fridge time. I also use super moss toward the end of the boil & strain into the fermenter.
I also just ordered a barley crusher grain mill from Northern Brewer to get a proper crush to also aid in getting clear beer come fridge time. It's usually clear going in,hazy coming out. gotta do these things to help with getting clear beer besides what I've been doing.
 
I've brewed a lot of beer since I started this homebrew gig. It was cloudy more often than not for the first two years. During that time I would have agreed with the OP.................If I brewed a cloudy beer now, I would wonder what the hell I did wrong! Sure, it does not necessarily alter the taste, but the complete beer experience is an unforgiving sonofabitch. When you finally lay down and die, and all those memories come flooding back, the memory of that one single perfect beer you drank......The one that misted your eyes with joy, the one that you would have left your wife of 50 years for, that pint that changed your life............................................................It would NOT have been a stinky cloud fart from the Devil's anus.


Edit: nothing wrong with cloudy beer, but aim higher. ;)
 
I figured I would be in the minority. Interesting to see that some folks don't see it as all that important. I can see how it would be important for commercial purposes and if your involved in judging competition.

I also agree with a few here that as I improve, and as I stated earlier I have a long ways to go in this craft as a rookie, my focus will be on flavor and body and have less interest in clarity.

Now I must say that I do perform the usual techniques to reduce a lot of particulate matter. I make sure I get a hot break, I add some whirlfloc to the last 5 min of the boil, I chill with immersion chiller, I don't rush the primary fermentation, and I try to leave the trubb behind when I transfer from primary to the bottling bucket. However, I made other decisions that would forego clarity, such as not siphoning my cooled wort out of the kettle, I now just dump the whole shooting match into the primary and hope for a good settling out in 3 weeks or so. I don't use a secondary, don't cold crash and don't use finings in the fermentation process. So yes, I do end up with some haze or cloudiness for several reasons, but accept it.

I did not start this thread to try and convince anyone that my way is better than anyone else's. I just wanted to see if anyone had a similar belief and why. Perhaps it is my ignorance and maybe my thoughts will change over time. If you think I'm just accepting my own lack of brewing prowess, go ahead, it's your opinion. I know I'm a rank beginner, but much of what I learned, I got from you guys right here:)


and to my friends around here.... free beer can come in any form to them!
 
Depends on the beer (and I'm not talking wheat). If I brew an IPA, I'm going to dry-hop it, and since I'm doing that I want to drink it as fresh as possible. This means that I'm not spending an extra day or two cold crashing, or using gelatin, or anything like that, and that means that I'm going to have a cloudy beer.

Often there isn't a correlation to clearness and (blind) quality, but when I dry hop, there is
 
I'm surprised at the negative comments on cloudy beer. Some of the best beers in the world are cloudy. Just because a beer is cloudy that doesn't mean the brewer did not know what he/she was doing. Just ask John Kimmich. I prefer my homebrew to have a little haze, or cloudiness to it. I can easily rectify it by a real good cold crash but I choose not to. So, cheers to cloudy beer! :mug:
 
I love a brite beer, but I try not to get down on myself if a beer doesn't sparkle. My most recent IIPA is practically turbid from all the suspended hop oils. Damn tasty beer though.
 
As for myself,my comments weren't intended as a put down. I just see cludiness as a flaw to be corrected with this PM BIAB style I'm doing. Several things come into play here,& I'm looking to correct them. So it's my opinion Based on judging,flavor,& the like. I enjoyed crystal clear beer with my AE brews & my first PM,a midwest pre-crushed kit. Tried to get a better crush with what I had on hand,& the chill haze got worse. So the new grain mill,super moss,& process omprovements should get me back to easy clarity.
 
I am with you on the cloudy beer thing, especially in a commercial beer or craft brew, to me they tend to have more character to them.
 
For me its more of a "can I do it" thing. Can I brew a crystal clear beer. Obviously for wheats and such, I dont care. But for my pale's and lagers and such, I do try and get them clear just because I am anal and OCD like most brewers. Has nothing to do with taste, just the challenge of it. And I like to brew to style when possible :p
 
I think it's just another growth step in the process. Most craft beer drinkers wouldn't mind a bit of cloudiness or haze, doesn't affect taste...well at least not much. Although it doesn't directly impact flavor, sensation and perception research has shown that visual components have a large impact on perceived taste. I would describe beer making growth steps for most people as:

1. make something that's technically beer
2. make beer that's drinkable
3. work on the recipe so that the beer tastes good
4. perfect process to remove flaws
5. make clear beer

so the last step could be considered the capstone. Once you can do everything else very well, making clear beer is like the icing on the cake. It shows that you can do it all. I think that although it is the last step and also the one that impacts the beer the least, it gets an inequivalent amount of emphasis because it's the last hurdle to pass before you can say it's a perfect beer, hence the pride in clear beers.
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
I've brewed a lot of beer since I started this homebrew gig. It was cloudy more often than not for the first two years. During that time I would have agreed with the OP.................If I brewed a cloudy beer now, I would wonder what the hell I did wrong! Sure, it does not necessarily alter the taste, but the complete beer experience is an unforgiving sonofabitch. When you finally lay down and die, and all those memories come flooding back, the memory of that one single perfect beer you drank......The one that misted your eyes with joy, the one that you would have left your wife of 50 years for, that pint that changed your life............................................................It would NOT have been a stinky cloud fart from the Devil's anus.


Edit: nothing wrong with cloudy beer, but aim higher. ;)
Click to expand...

What would you say was the biggest process-change that led to clear beer? Im with you - my beers are always at least a bit hazy - until the last few pints of the keg. Clearly time fixes the haze - but I would like to get more clarity early. I also BIAB and never secondary. Going to try Biofine clear with my next batch.

That said - one of my favorite beers (Mirror pond) is nowhere near clear...
 
I like cloudy beer for the exact same resons you stated. More mouth feel, more substantial and a lingering taste. I also like a good bit of hops in the brew to really set a twang into the mix too. Nothing wrong with appreciating a brew the way they looked back in the day. I cant imagine the ancient egyptians were straining or filtering their brews any more than the Germans are filtering a weiss mit Hefe.

Wheelchair Bob
 
unionrdr said:
As for myself,my comments weren't intended as a put down. I just see cludiness as a flaw to be corrected with this PM BIAB style I'm doing. Several things come into play here,& I'm looking to correct them. So it's my opinion Based on judging,flavor,& the like. I enjoyed crystal clear beer with my AE brews & my first PM,a midwest pre-crushed kit. Tried to get a better crush with what I had on hand,& the chill haze got worse. So the new grain mill,super moss,& process omprovements should get me back to easy clarity.
Click to expand...

No offense taken:)
Just like me, you were stating your opinion.

You mention another interesting belief. There is a general belief that BIAB causes a "cloudy wort", more so than in a more traditional process. I wonder how true this statement is. I do complete BIAB with no sparge. I mash in the total water volume as my kettle is big enough.
I know a lot of people crank down their mills to create an extremely fine crush for BIAB. The belief being that this is needed to get decent efficiency with the BIAB process. I am assuming (maybe incorrectly) that this fine grind leads to the cloudier wort?

The fine folks over at BIABrew.com have dispelled a few myths using scientific method. Here are some beliefs that have been debunked:

1. You don't need to crush your grains any finer than what you would use with a mash tun. In fact, creating flour can have a detrimental effect with BIAB. Satisfied with their research, I have done my last 3 mashes using my new Barley Crusher set at the factory .039. This does all they say is needed, which is to open up the grains from the hulls and expose them to the water. I have been very happy with my efficiencies, easily getting to the OG's (or higher) that the recipes state.

2. It is better to not do a sparge and instead mash in the total volume of water if possible. Then simply allow the bag to drain as much as possible back into the kettle. Many people will hold back sparge water intentionally, even when they don't need to, so they can "rinse" the sugars from the bag separately and then add to the kettle. The explanation is, at times, beyond me to understand. But the folks at BIABrewer.com are very clear that you get the best efficiency without sparging the bag. Stop by the site if you want to know more.

BTW, I must say I am honored. I have never started a thread that went to 3 pages:rockin:
 
I like cloudy beer just as much as I like clear beer, dark beer, light beer, malty beer, hoppy beer, and yeasty beer. I like beer that is full of body and thin and watery, all as long as it tastes good for what it is.

I don't stick to style guidelines, but making clear beer was just another challenge I wanted to conquer. I dismissed beer clarity early on because I was more focused on making good tasting beer and trying different brew processes out. Now, I will generally shoot for making a clear beer if it is light enough to see through it in the first place and if it has more malt or hop character with little yeast flavor.

The OP and others acknowledge that their idea of what a beer will be like is influenced by how it looks. I'm the same way. Some see hazy beer as being good, with more body and they feel it has better taste. Others see clear beer as being cleaner and better made. When I see a cloudy beer, I expect it to have a strong yeast character, like most Belgians, Saisons, and Hefes. When I see a clear beer, I expect more malt or hop flavor with very little yeast flavor. That's just how I've been conditioned to think I guess, so that's the initial impression that I get from looking at a beer.

Right now, I have a Saison that I can pour very clear and it's just odd to me to see a clear beer and then get so much aroma and flavor from the yeast. I swirl that last bit of beer in the bottle and pour the yeast sediment into the glass to make it cloudy. Similarly, I think it's odd to have a light or amber colored beer pour cloudy and have a strong malt or hop flavor with no yeast. These would just be my initial impressions. If they taste good, I'm not going to knock them for being too hazy or too clear.
 
Well, I've never turned down a beer because it was cloudy, but I'd prefer if it was clear when it is supposed to be.

On a practical note, professionals are going for clarity for more than just the appearance. Lots of the clarity issues (or at least the processes that cause clarity issues) are also associated with poor shelf life stability. On a homebrewing scale, that probably won't make any difference if you are just churning out IPA's etc to drink young. If you are going to age the beer though, you'll want it as shelf stable as possible.
 
i am about 25 batches into brewing and have never really tried to "clear" any of my beers. that said my first few were opaque and now almost everything i brew comes out translucent at least. I find too that my porters and dark ales come out clearer than anything light in colour.
 
Cider123 said:
No offense taken:)
Just like me, you were stating your opinion.

You mention another interesting belief. There is a general belief that BIAB causes a "cloudy wort", more so than in a more traditional process. I wonder how true this statement is. I do complete BIAB with no sparge. I mash in the total water volume as my kettle is big enough.
I know a lot of people crank down their mills to create an extremely fine crush for BIAB. The belief being that this is needed to get decent efficiency with the BIAB process. I am assuming (maybe incorrectly) that this fine grind leads to the cloudier wort?

The fine folks over at BIABrew.com have dispelled a few myths using scientific method. Here are some beliefs that have been debunked:

1. You don't need to crush your grains any finer than what you would use with a mash tun. In fact, creating flour can have a detrimental effect with BIAB. Satisfied with their research, I have done my last 3 mashes using my new Barley Crusher set at the factory .039. This does all they say is needed, which is to open up the grains from the hulls and expose them to the water. I have been very happy with my efficiencies, easily getting to the OG's (or higher) that the recipes state.

2. It is better to not do a sparge and instead mash in the total volume of water if possible. Then simply allow the bag to drain as much as possible back into the kettle. Many people will hold back sparge water intentionally, even when they don't need to, so they can "rinse" the sugars from the bag separately and then add to the kettle. The explanation is, at times, beyond me to understand. But the folks at BIABrewer.com are very clear that you get the best efficiency without sparging the bag. Stop by the site if you want to know more.

BTW, I must say I am honored. I have never started a thread that went to 3 pages:rockin:
Click to expand...

I think the fine crush adds to the cloudy chil haze in the bottles at fridge time. They're clear up to that point. But with some reading & yooper,I found that my turning down the boil slightly right off that bat is responsible for reducing the hot break,which leaves more proteins in the wort. So I'm going to crank it to "high" on the stove till it gets past the hot break,then turn it down to 8.5-8.8 on the knob. That should fix that part. I also started using fivestar super moss as of my last batch to help that further. We'll see.
I also ordered The Barley Crusher from NB yesterday,& it's supposed to be here Monday. I was going to set it at .038". Have got to get the crush right now that I have mash temps stabilized. Since you can't vorlauf with BIAB,I thought up a solution the other day. I'll mash in the 4G kettle,then place the collander on top of that kettle to drain & sparge. dumping the mashed wort through my dual layer fine mesh strainer into the 5G BK to boil. Maybe that'll clear the wort up a lil better? I've also been sparging with 1.5 gallons of water for the 2G + 5-6lbs of grains mash. Works quite well from the OG's I've been getting. I'l have to look at that link. * Well,it's a forum type of thing,so it'll take a while to sift through all that info...
 
To the OP,

I'm with you. I generally prefer cloudy/hazy non filtered beers.

However, ive been making ALOT of Belgian IPA's and there yeast kept covering a lot of the hop flavor. I figured it was cause the yeast was just scrubbing some of the hop flavor away.

Then i went out of the country for two weeks, stuck all the bottles from my last batch in the fridge and when i cracked one open upon return, the beer was brilliantly clear; and the hop flavor was there in force, but with a touch of the Trappist yeast character.


So in my opinion, it just depends on the style.
 
It depends on the beer a lot. I generally prefer the cloudier beers because I prefer those styles. In saying that I never want to drink a cloudy pilsner but the occasional cloudy pale ale looks fine. I like it when it swirls in the glass.
 
Clear beer for me, too.

BUT... I do like a nice DARK beer. Stouts, porters, BSDA's. Oh yeah... but even in those super-dark beers you can tell when it's a clean, clear beer. When they look and pour like motor oil that's just right for me.
 
I prefer beer that is passionately brewed. Even if it tastes like pure @$$, I will respect the effort put into the brew and the heart put into the craft. Keeping in mind, nobody cares for every style of beer. Cloudy, clear, dark, "light", unfiltered, filtered, ale, lager, high IBU, no IBU, etc... I give my opinion when asked, and when it isn't I keep it to myself. Overall, I have had clear, cloudy, light, dark, thick, thin, clumpy (don't ask), highly carbonated, flat, hot, cold, warm, and even a brew made from oysters (see Dogfish Head, some unfortunate soul tried to clone their efforts).

Sometimes the story is more important than the flavor (from a non-commercial standpoint that is). I cannot say I have a preference, but most of my favorite brews are clear in color. A clear color is almost harder to avoid than it is to attain in my experience. In a blind taste test, however, I will likely be unable to distinguish a "cloudy" beer from a clarified beer.
 

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