EBIAB Recirculation Question

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mrshaund

mrshaund

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Quick question as far as recirculation I could have sworn I seen a thread that said it was not worth doing, but I cannot find it now but was curious as to why you would not want to.

Also is PH stabilizer needed in most cases. I am moving from 3 vessel 5 gallon to indoor eBiab 10 gallon.

Thanks
 
mrshaund, i haven't seen anything saying it isn't beneficial but i don't do biab. my lhbs guy just did one because he was being lazy and he did.

as for ph stabilizer, i have never used it and my brew buddies back in CA haven't either. unless you have really odd water, typically speaking you should be ok.
 
I wish i could find it I just remember seeing something along the lines that people were canning the Idea of it.
 
I have an EBIAB system and I constantly recirculate. The major reason for me is to maintain the temperature throughout the mash. A stainless steel kettle will lose some heat over an hour if I didn't recirculate.
 
I actually found it :https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/biab-electric-brewing-system-383137/


"The reason I asked was because several e-BIABers have abandoned recirculation. I think there was a thread on this and it might have been related to the use of the basket. Apparently, the pump tried to draw faster than the wort would flow thru and out of the basket causing burning around the element. It was recommended that the valve after the pump be closed down to limit the flow. Some punched larger holes in their baskets with varying results. I think it was mentioned that the little sprayer at the end of this particular system acted to limit the flow. I'm not sure about the guys who to e-BIAB without the basket."

That was the quote I was talking about.
 
In my opinion, the benefits of even temperatures from recirculation far outweigh the benefits of the basket.
 
im with jeff here. IMO, this is a product of not limiting flow enough / adjusting for flow rates.
 
Yeah I think I am 100% with using a pump I was just looking for what the argument was against it.
 
mrshaund said:
I actually found it :https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/biab-electric-brewing-system-383137/


"The reason I asked was because several e-BIABers have abandoned recirculation. I think there was a thread on this and it might have been related to the use of the basket. Apparently, the pump tried to draw faster than the wort would flow thru and out of the basket causing burning around the element. It was recommended that the valve after the pump be closed down to limit the flow. Some punched larger holes in their baskets with varying results. I think it was mentioned that the little sprayer at the end of this particular system acted to limit the flow. I'm not sure about the guys who to e-BIAB without the basket."

That was the quote I was talking about.
Click to expand...

Thanks, mrshaund. You quoted the question I asked in that particular thread. The use of the basket would seem to make things so much easier to handle. Yet, I was confused by reports of peoples' pumps cavitating.

I might have "theoretically" answered my own question - although I can't test it right now - in a later post on that same thread. The High Gravity system uses a bag much like the paint strainer bags. I think the mesh is coarser and allows for freer water flow. The BIAB gurus use a fine mesh bag made from Swiss Voile. The use of this voile bag means that you can crush a little finer. My theory is that it is a combination of the finer crush along with the finer-meshed bag resting in the basket that causes the flow problems.

What is needed is for someone who has some time to run a couple batches using double crush grain and utilizing recirculation:
1. with paint strainer bag + basket
2. with paint strainer bag without basket
3. with voile bag + basket
4. with voile bag without basket

Respectfully submitted,
Keith
 
jeffmeh said:
In my opinion, the benefits of even temperatures from recirculation far outweigh the benefits of the basket.
Click to expand...

I wanted both! So I went to town on the basket with my fancy Greenlee step bit and a lot of homebrew.
 
I have the High Gravity system. IMO, the argument about the basket is nuts. There's no way 1/2" holes are restricting flow enough to starve the pump. In my experience its all about the bag. I've done a batch with the supplied paint strainer type bag and one with a finer mesh bag. The paint strainer recirculated with no problem. The finer mesh did give me some issues where the pump would starve. I was able to tinker with it to make it work, but in the future I'll be using the coarser mesh.
 
I have been thinking about saving up for that system since this winter I realized I am too much of a wimp to brew at -35c outside. Is it really worth it? I just wish I could try it once before dumping the cash into it.
 
theknub said:
Keith, sounds like 4 good beers you can make there ;)
Click to expand...

I guess I set myself up for that one. As a former science major, I guess I really should set up the experiment. The main problem is that I do not yet have an electric setup. Therefore I cannot perform the test.

I'm looking to the experience of you guys (y'all) in whether or not I purchase this system. I've done a few BIAB batches using propane and the keggle I cut. I'm looking to go e-BIAB as soon as I get a few other priorities taken care of in our new house.

SpacemanSpiff said:
. . . In my experience its all about the bag. I've done a batch with the supplied paint strainer type bag and one with a finer mesh bag. The paint strainer recirculated with no problem. The finer mesh did give me some issues where the pump would starve. I was able to tinker with it to make it work, but in the future I'll be using the coarser mesh.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it would help to interpose a valve after the pump in order to turn down the flow.

I will have to go back to some of the original threads I read when I first found out about BIAB. There was a particular reason why the "big guys" in BIAB were promoting the use of the fine meshed voile over the coarser paint strainer bags. I think it had something to do with the junk remaining after pulling the bag when using the coarser bag. OTOH, I'm not sure that's any worse than depending upon the grain bed to be its own filter as one does while sparging in a 3-vessel setup.

I hope those of you who have purchased this system will continue to post of your experiences. Please include pictures if possible. I just don't feel like I have the energy to build my own e-system from scratch.

Looking forward to hearing more from y'all.

Keith
 
kzimmer0817 said:
I guess I set myself up for that one. As a former science major, I guess I really should set up the experiment. The main problem is that I do not yet have an electric setup. Therefore I cannot perform the test.

I'm looking to the experience of you guys (y'all) in whether or not I purchase this system. I've done a few BIAB batches using propane and the keggle I cut. I'm looking to go e-BIAB as soon as I get a few other priorities taken care of in our new house.



I wonder if it would help to interpose a valve after the pump in order to turn down the flow.

I will have to go back to some of the original threads I read when I first found out about BIAB. There was a particular reason why the "big guys" in BIAB were promoting the use of the fine meshed voile over the coarser paint strainer bags. I think it had something to do with the junk remaining after pulling the bag when using the coarser bag. OTOH, I'm not sure that's any worse than depending upon the grain bed to be its own filter as one does while sparging in a 3-vessel setup.

I hope those of you who have purchased this system will continue to post of your experiences. Please include pictures if possible. I just don't feel like I have the energy to build my own e-system from scratch.

Looking forward to hearing more from y'all.

Keith
Click to expand...

I have never tried a coarser bag than the voile sheer curtain material, but one of the BIAB advantages is that you can do a pretty fine grind and get great efficiency, with no lautering required. I would expect a coarser bag to let through significantly more particulates, and you would likely find the need to lauter.

IMO, you definitely want a valve on the output of the pump. When recirculating during the mash, you don't need a high flow rate, just high enough to keep the temperatures even throughout the vessel.
 
I thought I'd chime in with my experience. I use just and bag, no basket, and recirculate during mash. I have no problems as long as the pump is open less than a quarter. Keeps my mash temp constant and worry free.
 
I suppose you could put a valve in the line to throttle the flow. The only drawback I think someone in another thread mentioned is that puts extra strain on the pump and could shorten its life. No idea how true that is though.
As for keeping particulates out of the wort, I just don't think it matters. Yeah, BIAB wort is cloudy as hell and that freaks people out. It all settles out either in the whirlpool or in the fermenter and my beers have always been just as clear as can be.
 
SpacemanSpiff said:
I suppose you could put a valve in the line to throttle the flow. The only drawback I think someone in another thread mentioned is that puts extra strain on the pump and could shorten its life. No idea how true that is though.
As for keeping particulates out of the wort, I just don't think it matters. Yeah, BIAB wort is cloudy as hell and that freaks people out. It all settles out either in the whirlpool or in the fermenter and my beers have always been just as clear as can be.
Click to expand...

Magnetic drive pumps have no problem with a valve restricting the output. However, never starve the input.
 
Would it be possible to control the speed of the pump and vary it as needed?

I haven't built yet, but I am leaning towards a single vessel recirculating E-BIAB rig. If this is a viable option, I could possibly include a variable speed controller in the panel.
 
mikeysab said:
pics or it didn't happen.
Click to expand...



image-732710669.jpg
 
Thanks for the pic. I might just go ahead and do that to mine. Maybe drill a couple up the sides as well.
 
BigFloyd said:
Would it be possible to control the speed of the pump and vary it as needed?

I haven't built yet, but I am leaning towards a single vessel recirculating E-BIAB rig. If this is a viable option, I could possibly include a variable speed controller in the panel.
Click to expand...

Yes, but it is simpler to use a magnetic drive pump and regulate the flow with a valve on the output.
 
jeffmeh said:
Yes, but it is simpler to use a magnetic drive pump and regulate the flow with a valve on the output.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Are the all of the march pumps and chuggers I see on various build threads magnetic drive or just certain ones?
 
BigFloyd said:
Thanks.

Are the all of the march pumps and chuggers I see on various build threads magnetic drive or just certain ones?
Click to expand...

All? lol

The March and Chugger pumps that are marketed for brewing are typically magnetic drive pumps.
 
mikeysab said:
Thanks for the pic. I might just go ahead and do that to mine. Maybe drill a couple up the sides as well.
Click to expand...

Using my Greenlee, I punched out a bunch of holes on the bottom, and up along the sides. If I need more holes, I'll punch more, but I'm not horribly worried about it, since I will be limiting the flow with an output valve (which the pumps are designed to do).

IMG_20130403_145333[1].jpg
 

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