If you could start over and had $1000 what equipment would you get

Good afternoon my brew swillin' friends.

I have been wanting to get into brewing for some time, but never realized that brewing at home was attainable for someone with somewhat limited space and time. Recently after having visited a brewery, it rekindled my interest.... the tasting tour reminded me of what good brew was, and explained why I had lost my interest in drinking beer since I moved to NC. (Was from Racine, WI before that and would drink Lakefront Brewery concoctions liberally)

I have read through Palmers book on how to brew, and am excited to get started. My favorite beers are the darks, but I need to taste through them again keeping in mind the characteristics I enjoy, and where they come from. I used to think hops were only in IPAs and that chocolate stouts were some unearthly creations of a brilliant mad scientist.

My goal in starting this new addiction.. err new hobby, is to be able to brew myself and any appreciative friends or colleagues, a full range of good beers, and to be able to stock my soon to be home bar with 2-4 cornys of my own beer.

So Ive already started rambling, so let me get on to my first of many questions I will hurl at this forum in hopes of deepening my own knowledge on this subject.

What to buy, starting out.... I plan to go all grain eventually, I may start with a few extract brews just to get some beer under my belt, and understand the steps more fully (learn by doing, after, of course, researching). Some of my concerns are brewing too much to start, and not having anywhere to put it. I foolishly gave away a standard white fridge to a friend a month or so ago, so have limited storage space, hence the start of this thread.

I want to allocate enough to the brewing components (carboys, cane, pot, etc) to be able to do 2-3 batches at a time, but Im stuck on 5-6 gallon vs 3 gallon. Starting out I would like to brew more, smaller batches, so that I can practice the art of homebrew without having my health affected . Additionally, being southish, temperature controls may be a bit of an issue for fermenting, so I was considering building a standup freezer to manage temps, either that or claim an empty room in our house, and put a standing AC unit with a temperature set appropriately for that room.

I realize I am all over the place here, I have read too much in the last week or so. I will stop here and summarize.

I plan to start out just brewing ales, will leave lagers until later, if you had similar goals, and lived where I live, and were starting over, what would you buy/build with the $1000 to get started on the magical journey of brewing? Including bottling/storing/conditioning, etc.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Edit: And yes Ive read abit on the forums, and other sites, seen what typical starter kits contain, just wanting some input from the brewers who have experience, in order to maximize my potential without wasting money on stuff I will outgrow quickly, and to spend the money in the right places to make the most impact.

I saw this the other day while thumbing through a Midwest catalog:
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/master-brewers-kit-with-kegging-setup.html

I thought, if I were to start from scratch, that this kit looks like a pretty good deal. $200 for a keg setup seems pretty average (though this looks like a 3 gal keg, it doesn't actually say -- but you can buy used 5 gal cornys for relatively cheap), and then temp control is at least another $50 (which you will need if you are setting up a fermentation chamber in a freezer or fridge). Then it's just $100 or so for the rest of the stuff that you will need. One primary and two carboys means you can pull of the 2-3 batches at a time. The only negative is that shipping would cost a bomb.

Other than that, you will probably want an 8-10 gallon brew kettle (I got mine from Amazon for a reasonable price), perhaps a propane burner (as boiling full 5 gal batches on the stove sounds like more trouble than it's worth), and a wort chiller (you can make one fairly easily using tutorials on this site or elsewhere), a big jug of Starsan (rather than that crap they give you with the starter kits) and probably a bottle capper, though I'm probably forgetting something.

Then, when you are ready to go all-grain, you are pretty much ready. You can do a cooler MLT conversion for a pretty affordable price (again, you can find good tutorials for this on this site).

I don't feel like you should have to spend $1000 to set yourself up pretty well, regardless of whether you get a starter kit or not. $500 should be enough if you're just going with extract to begin with, then add kegs and fermenters as you need them. My one piece of advice would be to always assume you are going to upgrade (as it seems most people do), so spring for that larger kettle the first time instead of buying two.

Where at in NC? I'd say start with a basic turkey fryer setup with at least a 40qt pot. Then work from there with better bottles and all the other basics that I'm sure you have researched. Cheers and good luck!

BigFloyd said:

How much do you like building/fabricating/assembling your own stuff? That will affect your approach to many equipment issues in this hobby.

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I would say I do like tinkering and building stuff, but if anything is time intensive I do not have a lot of that kind of time at the moment.

BigFloyd said:

#1 - Temperature control (as you have already noted). I'd go with an upright freezer controlled by an STC-1000. That will handle your ale needs just fine. When I got into doing lagers, however, my upright freezer became the lagering/cold crash chamber and I picked up a used fridge for fermenting.

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I have read walkthroughs on building these and I think I can do it. You mentioned a fridge, what is the logic between using afridge or a freezer for the 50-75 fermenting vs the cold crashing/lagering.

BigFloyd said:

#2 - A good large kettle or keggle. If you think you may eventually do 5 gallon BIAB, a 10+ gallon kettle is needed. Rig it with a SS ball valve.

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I need to look more into the full boil vs partial boil + adding water. Rig the bottom with a ball valve for draining vs siphoning?

BigFloyd said:

#3 - Wort chilling. A good immersion chiller is worth every $$ you spend to build/buy it.

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Plan on building this for sure, not sure if I will do anything fancy or just straight through tap water.


Thanks for the advice!

dg35884 said:

Where at in NC? I'd say start with a basic turkey fryer setup with at least a 40qt pot. Then work from there with better bottles and all the other basics that I'm sure you have researched. Cheers and good luck!

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Jacksonville area.

I did consider the turkey fryer but read a bit about added cost of fuel to the brew (I am anumbers person so I would be the kind to get the price per batch as efficient as possible). Also I have absolutely nowhere outside to brew, and would worry about stuff blowing from trees into it if ijust set itupon my sidewalk.

Im definitely set on glass over plastic bottles, but not sure exactly why, something about being able to scrub it clean, and glass looking cool

Guesstimating here

about 300 for burner and a good kettle, about 150 for 2 plastic fermenters, a bottling bucket, autosiphon, and a carboy and various things like thermometers, hydrometers star san and the sort. 200 for kegging system, then I guess 150 for a mill and some various parts, then the last 200 for build my Mashtun and Wort chiller. Though I may consider going cheaper on some things to get a plate chiller instead of the wort chiller

What are the benefits to the plate chiller, quicker, and more compact? If it is what I am thinking of, you pump both wort and water through the "plate" device and pump the wort directly into the fermenter?

if you get much bigger than 10 gallon pots, there is so much metal that cooling the wort outside of the pot is more efficient. plate or CFC chiller just works better. CFC chillers are more forgiving regarding clogging than plate chillers.
Plat chillers have more surface area and are faster, use less water.

TheDarkChemist said:

Jacksonville area.

I did consider the turkey fryer but read a bit about added cost of fuel to the brew (I am anumbers person so I would be the kind to get the price per batch as efficient as possible). Also I have absolutely nowhere outside to brew, and would worry about stuff blowing from trees into it if ijust set itupon my sidewalk.

Im definitely set on glass over plastic bottles, but not sure exactly why, something about being able to scrub it clean, and glass looking cool

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The gas cost is a small dollar amount.
1st learn how to brew
2nd going to all grain and bulk buying will drop the cost per batch more the the $10- $15 bucks for a refill on a propane tank
3rd temperature controlled fermentation would be my #1, more beer is ruined by hot fermentation then a leaf or bug dropping into a boiling liquid WILL NOT harm you or your future beer
4th If saving money is your goal collect coins this is a hobby that can easily get out of hand.

As far as spending money:
A turkey fryer gets you a pot, burner, and lid. (can add a bag for AG)
A roll of copper tube is an easy made chiller
Used fridge and e-bay temp control for fermentation
Plastic is fine for fermenting + less dangerous and easy to clean and replace
kegging vs bottling you have to decide

Welcome to the addiction that is a constantly learning and evolving process of beer styles, culture, recipes and designs.

bottom line is to research the forums see where YOU want to go when is all brewed you will still have beer

Thanks again for the responses!

Ive been reading some more, and like the idea of a plate cooler, but would I then need to get a BK with a valve for draining + a pump and whirlpool re-entry on the kettle to isolate the cold break? Any good recommendations for akettle like that?

Thanks

also, is the quality of the cold break affected by how fast itcools? Because Iwould imagine thewort making it through the plate breaks hard, while some of the wort is being averaged down slower with the cooler wort circulating back into the pot?

Temp control
propane burner
10 gal kettle
kegging setup (you could go with the picnic tap setup to save a little $$)
chiller
then find a beginner's kit somewhere with all the gadgets.
O2 kit if you have extra

A propane turkey fryer type burner is cheap as is a 44qt pot with a strainer basket. I do biab beers up to 9%abv this way and they come out fantastic. A Rubbermaid tub and some frozen bottles of water along with a aquarium power head and I can maintain temps pretty much where ever I need them to be depending on style. I have yet to play around with lagers however so can't say much about those. I ferment in buckets and have no problems what so ever. The only thing I can see with the glass is that you can be more of a peeping Tom with your beer.

I have maybe 200 in my set up and make great beers. Craigslist is your friend on this

This is always a tough question. First, a good kettle, I'd go aluminum, HomeBrewFinds has them often for < $50. A banjo burner of some sort, $50. A good $25 thermometer (Thermoworks waterproof pocket). 2-3 fermenting buckets, airlocks, blowoff tube, 1/2" auto siphon, tubing for siphon $150. Refractometer, $30 (ebay). Brewing books- $100 (Yeast, How to Brew, Brewing Classic Styles, and some on your favorite beer styles). Bench Capper $50. Vinator tree / bottle rinser $60. Funnel, brushes, StarSan, PBW, bottle filler $100. Digital Temp Controller / used Upright Freezer off Craig's List $150. Wort Chiller (DIY) $40. Stir Plate (Stir Starters) / flask $65. O2 stone / cannister $60. You'll find yourself spending at least $100 on misc. stuff at the brew store, always happens. That's $1k, easy. But you'll have a nice PM system. I would strongly recommend extract until you have process down, then go BIAB after a half-dozen batches. Many never go "all grain" BIAB is 80% of the benefit of AG, IMO.

Someday, maybe move up to all-grain with a Seville Classics wire 18" shelf (3-tier) for $100, with two turkey fryers $120 and two ball-valves $80.

Of course, this can be addictive. Pumps, sexy Blichmanns, HERMS, RIMS, SS Conicals, Kegging. None of these things are necessary to make fantastic beer. Many are, practically, a waste of money. But they are very very cool.

I was thinking of getting the Morebeer Heavy Duty 10 gallon kettle $159, with ball valve and additional spot welded on.

Is this a good option, or would I be better served just getting an economy one off of amazon and putting in weldless fittings?

I've got more then $1000 in our setup already, so if I had to start it all over from scratch:

Dedicated fermentation fridge w/controller.
Banjo burner.
BIAB setup
Keggle
Decent mill.
Immersion chiller (possibly with pre-chiller)

The morebeer hd kettles are worth the money IMO. Be advised that if you ever plan to do 10 gal batches, a 10 gal kettle will not be big enough. I got the 15 gal kettle, and I do 5 gal batches in it as well as 10 gal. If you really aren't sure yet, I would spend as little as possible for a kettle and if you decide to upgrade, use it as an HLT. You can get a decent 8 gal SS pot for $80 or so.
Second what everyone said about ferm temp control. The yeast and it's fermentation will make or break the flavor of your beer.
As soon as you add a pump, you're looking at $$$ in related "now I need this" stuff. Gravity is your friend.

$500 for fermentation and kegerator setup.
$500 for all grain equipment.

This means cutting costs on brewing equipment, but eliminating fermentation problems and bottling.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned it but you should set aside $200 for a nice dinner and a pair of shoes for SWMBO!

Although I went the cheap route myself I highly recommend getting quality equipment from the beginning so you don't need to buy more/better/bigger equipment quickly. Just think about how serious you are (or how much the resale value could be if you change your mind) and plan accordingly. If I had ~$1000 at my disposal I'd get:

• Temperature controlled chest freezer
• 10+gal SS kettle with two ports
• SS immersion chiller (25' or 50')
• decent grain mill
• 50-70qt cooler for mashing
• good propane burner
• SS ball valves and connectors
• silicone tubing
• plenty of carboys/buckets for fermentation
• bottling bucket
• stir plate and Erlenmeyer for yeast starters
• The usual suspects for bottling, cleaning etc.

I already have a lot of these items so I'm happy. However, this is an addictive hobby because it combines virtually all aspects of possible hobbies: Gardening (if you're growing your own hops), electronics, welding, wood work, cooking, science, drinking, hanging out etc. You could even include working out if you count running up and down the stairs and lifting heavy kettles/coolers. Again, get as much of the right stuff as you can afford and build a solid equipment base instead of substituting over and over again. I heard a good quote in one of Beersmith's podcasts once: "If you buy good equipment you cry only once" [about the price]

Over the last six months, I put together a simple 15 gallon BIAB system with a small kegerator for roughly $1,300.

If I had to do it over again and stick to a max of $1,000, I would (sadly) spend less on kegs (bought 6), buy a kettle without the steamer basket, lose the grain mill and buy a few more fermenters (plastic buckets).

My problem with not wanting to to right to 15 gallon kettles, is that I am stuck doing stovetop until I build a little shed or lean-to for gas brewing. I plan on experimenting a lot starting out so 5 gallons seems like the high end of that, for some reason Im planning on bottling a lot to start out, as it is more portable.

I think I am in information overload at this point and probably just need to order some stuff to get me started.

And SWMBO got an Espresso maker and grinder for her birthday, I wont be spending that much on brewing supplies right away

The idea is a workable BIAB rig, which is pretty different from my actual 3 vessel RIMs, but I think this sounds pretty fun.

ferm chamber (150 + 70 for a controller)
=220
stir plate + bar + flask (60)
=280
aeration rig (60)
=340
1 kettle + fittings 20 Gal (100 + 50)
=490
blichmann burner (150)
640
plate chiller + fittings (150)
790
silicone hose + fittings (20 + 20)
830
pump (120)
950
water filter (20)
970
wilserbrewers biab triple play (31)
1001
hydrometer (5)
1006

All grain for $1,000 is easy. Turkey fryer set (for the burner and HLT) - $70, a good 15 gallon pot with ball valve and thermometer ($200), camping cooler, ball valve, and bazooka screen for a mash tun ($100), and maybe $200 for miscellaneous (fermenting bucket, carboy, bottle caps and capper, StarSan, PBW, hydrometer, thermometer, kitchen scale, autosiphon, airlocks, laundry tub for swamp cooler, and a few other things I'm sure I'm missing).

If you wanted to do lagers, then you'd need the fridge with the temperature controller, figure another $150 with Craigslist and a little patience. Get your grain milled at the source, carb in the bottle, and you're in business.

Missed getting 4 carboys, 80+ grolsch bottles, and cleaning equipment/pails for $55 on craigslist , bummer, almost re-adjusted by bottling plan

If I'd have had $1,000 just to spend rampantly when I started I would have bought enough angle to make a single-tier brewstand, a march pump, fittings, casters, burners, and the left over would have went towards carboys, bottle caps, bottling bucket, etc.... If I knew then what I know now (which is impossible without some screw-ups) that is what I would have done with 1 large.

Now I have always been against aluminium because I have been woried about getting off flavors. Is this not the case? I thought that was why you did not cook tomato sauce in aluminium because the acid would leach off some into the sauce giving you a bad flavor.

jjadamsfb said:

Now I have always been against aluminium because I have been woried about getting off flavors. Is this not the case? I thought that was why you did not cook tomato sauce in aluminium because the acid would leach off some into the sauce giving you a bad flavor.

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No, once the aluminum has an oxidized coat from boiling in it you leave it and your good. It's not like your storing beer in it.

Yeah, what beaks said. If you're worried about off flavors from aluminum, consider this; there's a 99% chance that if you go into the kitchen of your favorite restaurant you'll see plenty of aluminum cookware.

Which, by the way, makes restaurant supply stores a great place to get large stockpots. I know the OP is worried about space. I've got a 40 qt HLT and 60 qt boil kettle and they nest together quite nicely and between the HLT and my Igloo MLT, I can fit just about all of my brew gear inside save for the burner. It all would easily fit in a small coat closet.

As for what to do if I were starting over, probably what I'm working on now, building an electric rig. That way I can brew in comfort all year round. Plus it gives greater control over the mash. But I think you're on the right track if you want to go propane. Controlling fermentation temps would be #1. And I wouldn't spend a lot of money on ball valves, thermometers, sight glasses, etc. for your kettle. They're nice, but I get by with "bare" pots just fine. I've got a $20 electronic probe thermometer from Target that does the trick for heating strike / sparge water and I use a saucepan to transfer wort from the kettle to the fermenter until it's light enough to just pick up and pour in (remember you want it aerated anyway).

buy once dont waste dollars on something not going to use ie bottle/capers if going to keg down the road. if going to do all grain then buy for that.