HELP! Keg is undercarbed and has tons of foam

Help!

I am kegging for the first time and after a week my beer is still undercarbed and the kegerator is pouring 90% foam (which will ultimately settle into half of a drinkable beer). I've read a million different suggestions on both matters, and I'm officially stuck.

AND..I'm getting my beer professionally canned on Saturday evening (5.11.13) at a local event put on by a canning company. (You are required to bring the beer in a keg - beer must be cold and between 2.4-2.6 vol co2). Thus, I'm quite concerned about getting it ready in time.

Here are the details...

I recently got this kegerator for an insane deal on craigslist:
http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com...rce=googleps&gclid=CKjM_9qQiLcCFep7QgodMg4ABg

It didnt come with a keg, so I got a used one from a friend who brews a lot. He claimed the keg was good to go. A cursory inspection from myself agreed..but then again, what do i know.

I changed the gross old lines and in/out attachments (it was sankey style - changed to corny) and also replaced a defective fan motor. It now cools the beer in the keg to 39.5 degrees. The 1/4 inch line is 4 ft long. The thing works great (accept the whole undercarbing and foamy beer thing).

I initially followed Northern Brewer TV's instructions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEMxBPxb1vE) and let the keg carbonate at 20 psi over 2 days (the beer was initially room temp, and after applying the pressure I put the keg in the kegerator, it has been there since). It wasn't ready (undercarbed, with tons of foam) so I checked it again the next day. Still wasn't ready so I let it go another day. Still wasn't ready. Every time it was undercarbed and poured mostly foam.

Thinking my beer was undercarbed, I then followed this guys instructions () and put the beer nozzle on the gas line and attached it to the beer out pop-it, set the regulator to ~30 psi, and rocked the keg for 4 minutes. One day later - still not carbonated, still tons of foam.

Following yet again another internet instruction, I set the psi to 10 and let it sit for a day. One day later - still foamy and undercarbonated. 3 days later (using this method) it is still undercarbed and foamy. I will say it tastes slightly more carbed, but is still not 2.4 (more like ~1.6 or less)

Using soapy water I checked for leaks (all connections and big o-ring) - no leaks. HOWEVER - when I pull the gas relief valve thingy to release the head pressure before pulling a sample, lots of bubbles bubble out of the o-ring. But I make sure to seal the keg with pressure (40 or more) before setting the desired carbing temp - so supposedly I'm sealed during the carbonation process.

Also, all of my connections are as tight as can be (via wrench).

Also, I've made sure that the last few times I poured a sample that the keg was not disturbed prior to pouring the sample.

I've heard that my beer may be so overcarbed that its actually flat - but this doesn't make sense as the beer wasn't carbed 2 days after 20 psi.

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm running out of time! Thanks!

Title should be "Help! I've overcarbed my keg!" etc

The foam was produced by the CO2 that was dissolved in the beer bursting out of solution and making all those foamy bubbles. When that happens, the CO2 you were hoping would provide for long lasting carbonation is gone with the foam - it's the same CO2. So, yes, when you pour a violently overcarbed brew through a dispensing system that is tuned for something more reasonable, you get a crapton of foam, and flat beer.

The only cure is to disconnect the CO2 from that keg, and pop the pressure relief valve every time you remember it over the next day or two.

Eventually you'll knock the carbonation level down to where you can hook the gas up at the appropriate pressure for the beer temperature and desired level of carbonation (ie: refer to this chart, and remember that most beers are good at 2.5 volumes of CO2) and try a test pour. If it's still all foam, disconnect the CO2 and keep burping the keg...

Cheers!

Yeah definitely overcarbed. See how that guy in the vid poured nothing but a glass of foam? I've all but quit force carbing since low and slow seems to provide the best results. If I'm in a serious pinch to get beer flow, I'll run at 30 psi for a couple days, then reduce to serving psi and tap in another couple days.

Depending on what you have in the keg, relieve pressure as already suggested and shooting for 10-11 psi is likely the prescription. Along with hoping it equalizes in the next 2 days. Might be close to working out.

I would also suggest bleeding all the Co2 from the keg and then getting beer temp down a few deg as well. This will help the beer hold the Co2 longer. If your using a picnic tap, is it new? If not have you pulled it apart and looked at it? It may be nasty as hell in there and the seal may be sucking air at the tap when you pour. Just a few thoughts.

Cheers
Jay

Thanks for the suggestions! I will report back with results.

Jaybird - it's a draft tower set up - not a picnic tap. I cleaned every part thoroughly - including taking off the faucet and soaking it in santy water and running a brush through it until it was clear.

Maybe I should also mention that the beer was an IPA with 3 oz dry hops (leaf) and I transferred from secondary to the keg without a sophisticated filter (just the filter piece on the bottom of the siphon). I'm getting the occasional hop particle in my pours.

How long are your draft lines?

Cheers
Jay

Jaybird said:

How long are your draft lines?

Cheers
Jay

Click to expand...

Says 4' of 1/4" in the OP. Even if that's 1/4" OD and not ID, it's still way too short for 40° and 2.5 vol.

JuanMoore said:

Says 4' of 1/4" in the OP. Even if that's 1/4" OD and not ID, it's still way too short for 40° and 2.5 vol.

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agreed! Way to short of draft lines! but I also understand he is bleeding off all the psi before a poor. Still kick em up to about 15-18ft.

I really need 15+ feet of line? Does it need to be wrapped up like you would a garden hose or electrical extension cord? And I'm guessing that would reduce foam, but doesn't effect the force carbonation process?

A quick update: I disconnected the gas line and pulled the pressure relief valve last night and it did the typical release of pressure/gas. However, this morning I pulled the pressure relief valve and no gas/pressure came out (it made no noise). I guess that makes sense, since pressure wasn't being applied. But is this what was supposed to happen? OR, if it was overcarbed, should it have "belched" again the next morning?

Thanks again for all the help!

Rather than longer lines you could add a Teflon epoxy mixer insert to the beer line of the keg and the problem will be solved. I use 17" beer lines with perfect pours.

i have 12' on all of my lines and haven't any issues.. i just have it wrapped up in coils with some wireties holding the coils together to keep them manageable in the fridge

But krenshaw, you probably have 3/16" lines like the vast majority of us do. There's a big difference, believe it or not, in the amount of resistance that the same length of 3/16" ID beer line and 1/4" ID beer line will introduce on the beer passing through it, and it's just that resistance that keeps the carbonation in the beer. Since OP is using 1/4" ID line (presumably), he'd need much longer lines to get the same resistance. Or, he'd just need to switch to 3/16" ID lines in the 8-12' range and he'd be golden.

ah, didn't even register the thicker lines.. scrap what i said

I was confused by the title of this post at first as well. I watched the video and I can see how your beer got so foamy... I love how in the video they guy pours out a full pitcher with what he claims is "yeast" to discard and hides his super foamy beer from the camera... Seems that it doesn't come out delicious every time! It's a shame that the creator of that video is ok with dumping out 2-3 pitchers of foam every time he kegs.

I have banished accelerated force carbing from all my homebrews. If I have a party coming up and my timing was off, oh well, I wont serve it. I set my regulator to the end-game psi and wait the 2-3 weeks it takes. I've found the head to be much frothier and has more of the bottle carbed character to it.

As for fixing it do what some other folks have already said; take the Co2 tank off, shake the keg every once in a while and release the pressure valve to get rid of some of the Co2.

The process shown in that video is the worst. I know it works for some people and whatever, but if you ask my opinion, it's crap.

Okay, about 24 hours since taking it off the gas...Also, I used like 5 psi to dispense the beer. it's tasting more carbonated, but still not there yet. Also, still having foam issues. Do you all think the short line is masking how truly carbonated it is? Am I stuck with foamy beer until I get a longer line? (Granted, I'm canning the beer - so if that is the case, it is hard to tell when my beer's vol co2 is ready for canning).

I will do the occasional shake and release tonight, and will pour another sample tomorrow. After that I will report back.

Thanks again!

jfolks said:

Do you all think the short line is masking how truly carbonated it is? Am I stuck with foamy beer until I get a longer line? (Granted, I'm canning the beer - so if that is the case, it is hard to tell when my beer's vol co2 is ready for canning).

I will do the occasional shake and release tonight, and will pour another sample tomorrow. After that I will report back.

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

Yes, and yes. A short line works sort of like a firehose, and it comes blasting out. That means foam (where the co2 is 'knocked out' of suspension) and seemingly flat beer. It's especially weird when the beer is overcarbed, as it foams more so the beer seems even flatter, but the beer is actually overcarbed.

jfolks said:

I will do the occasional shake and release tonight, and will pour another sample tomorrow. After that I will report back.

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

I wouldn't suggest shaking anything! Carbonating is a subtle thing man its not supposed to be so aggressive. Easy is ALWAYS better.

Cheers
Jay

Jaybird said:

I wouldn't suggest shaking anything! Carbonating is a subtle thing man its not supposed to be so aggressive. Easy is ALWAYS better.

Cheers
Jay

Click to expand...

Thanks for that comment Jay. I wondered about that piece of advice, and only shook it a touch once.

I'm going to get 10 ft of 3/16 in line today after work. I will re-install and report back with an update.

I changed out the line with a 10 ft 3/16 in. At 10 psi it was pouring half beer and half foam and wasn't coming out super fast.

Should I keep on degassing? I'm getting it canned tomorrow..sure hope its ready!

jfolks said:

Should I keep on degassing? I'm getting it canned tomorrow..sure hope its ready!

Click to expand...

Yes.

Or you could also try the quick method of degassing, but just like with trying to carb fast it's easy to go too far. It sounds like you don't have time to let it degas properly though. Put your gas line on a liquid side QD, connect it to the liquid side of your keg, and turn the gas on to about 5psi. Then pull the pressure relief valve for 10 seconds at a time, 2-3 times. The large gas bubbles coming up through the beer will knock a lot of CO2 out of suspension. Have a towel handy as it may foam out if the relief valve if the keg is really full. Let it settle for a few hours and then try another pour.

It worked! After several days of degassing, my beer was pouring slightly foamy (but WAY better than it had been). Hoping it was good enough, I took it to the canning event (without using JuanMoore's force degassing method). And viola la! It was perfectly carbonated for a canning scenario. I now have my homebrew in cans for summer camping trips etc.

I did end up wasting more than 1.5 gal throughout the last 2 weeks trying to get the carbonation right, but all is well that ends well.

I owe a HUGE thanks to all that helped me through this process. I couldn't have done it without you all!

CHEERS!

Glad to hear this worked. My first kegging attempt worked great, my current one (2nd attempt) not so much. Same issue. Foam but flat beer. Gonna burp it for a few days and retry it.

Yeah my thought was others might be able to learn from my experience.. I didn't find a whole lot online about this specific issue. Next time I'm just using priming sugar! Wont have to waste electricity/gas that way either, since I dont have anything for the tap right now.