Single Tier, 3 Pump, BCS-462, Automated Rig

Subbed... Loving this idea of 3 pumps and 6 motorized ball valves. Any chance you could let us know your source for the 6 valves? Also, where in hell did you manage to find pumps for $100?

Edited: Correction, I found your post where you talk about the valves here. I really should read more through these posts before subscribing so quickly. Also, I reread your first post and figured out your pump situation. You originally bought chuggers with polysulfone heads and then switched to the SS, so now your pumps cost closer to the $135-150 that I'm seeing everywhere for SS chuggers. Cheers

armageddon said:

Could you post up a schematic for how you wired up your bbq igniter to an SSR. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a BCS system and would like to figure this part out. All of the igniters that I've looked at run off of a single battery (1.5V) and the regular SSR's that Embedded Control Concepts sell look like they have a minimum 3V for the load side. What's the trick?

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One thing you can do to power them bad boys all off one dedicated circuit and do away with batteries altogether is to cannibalize a simple 5v cell phone wall charger. You want one with the old school laptop-type power tip and not a new style micro usb or ipod connector. That should take care of any power issues that batteries have with driving SSRs as they drain over time and use.

fc36 said:

One thing you can do to power them bad boys all off one dedicated circuit and do away with batteries altogether is to cannibalize a simple 5v cell phone wall charger. You want one with the old school laptop-type power tip and not a new style micro usb or ipod connector. That should take care of any power issues that batteries have with driving SSRs as they drain over time and use.

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Actually, I liked using the battery power so that there wasn't a path for all the back EMF to get to the BCS (it can travel through the wall worts). Still, I would sometimes have interference issues and having your BCS reboot during a brew session is a major PIA!

A few months back I removed my spark igniters and replaced them with hot surface igniters. They are 120V glow igniters that are all powered off of a single SSR. No spark, no interference and they work flawlessly. I highly suggest going that route. I used the Honeywell GlowFly ones.

I made up a drawing, but I'm no EE. Is this the valve and wiring you used? A KLD 1/2" Stainless Steel 12VDC, KLD20SB3Z12.

Ive been searching for the past week on different stand designs. I've decided to go with your because i like the idea of being able to upgrade from keggle's in the future if i choose to and there is plenty of space where nothing is cramped. I have 48' of 2x2 steel waiting in the garage so I plan to start today. This is really sharp!

I've been sketching out designs for my own stand while deployed for the last month. I've come up with a few different variations, but I keep coming back to one design. I was killing time and clicked on the DIY thread to find this. This is almost exactly what I dreamed up, only better. Nice build!

So now I'm going to start ordering parts so that everything is ready to rock when I get home. Almost time to fire up the welder!

Subscribed!! Im totally jealous of this amazing piece of hardware!! I've been wanting to do the same thing for a while, but didn't even know where to start. Now I know.....

I started messing around with a new customized front-end. I still need to add some animated graphics to it for process flows and spruce it up a bit, but functionally it is rock solid and working incredibly well.

Looking good, Jon!

That's a nice, easy to follow layout.

JonW said:

They are powered by 120V, so I wired all three of them to a single SSR. The BCS powers them up 5 seconds before opening the gas valve and continues to keep them on for another 5 seconds after the valve is opened.[/IMG]

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Jon, does this mean that all 3 hsi's fire up at the same time, even though the BCS is only igniting one burner?

wpshadowens said:

Jon, does this mean that all 3 hsi's fire up at the same time, even though the BCS is only igniting one burner?

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That is correct. You can do them individually on the BCS, but I'm using so many outputs for other things, I just decided to wire them together so I only needed one output.

JonW said:

I started messing around with a new customized front-end. I still need to add some animated graphics to it for process flows and spruce it up a bit, but functionally it is rock solid and working incredibly well.

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Looks awesome! Looking forward to incorporating when you make it available for us normal folks who can barely open email...lol

JonW, Thank you for your ideas and sharing. I started following you on the ECC forums and will read from Page 1 in HBT.

I have a single tiered stand built several years ago and could never decide on my next step. I built the control box like the Brutus 10 and decided that I did not like all the wires sticking out of the controller. When I come up with a full parts list and link to the suppliers I will send it to you.

Jon,

I'm in the process of putting together a system based on your design. (Stand is welded, many parts are in, etc)

I'm at the point where I need to select burners.... (I've got the line created with manual shutoff valves and auto valves coming from valves4projects). I'm choosing to go LP vs Nat gas for portability.... Since I'm going LP it looks like i'll have to worry about sizing a regulator as well..... Hoping to produce 25g batches... Do you have a recommendation on burner type?

603shane said:

Jon,

I'm in the process of putting together a system based on your design. (Stand is welded, many parts are in, etc)

I'm at the point where I need to select burners.... (I've got the line created with manual shutoff valves and auto valves coming from valves4projects). I'm choosing to go LP vs Nat gas for portability.... Since I'm going LP it looks like i'll have to worry about sizing a regulator as well..... Hoping to produce 25g batches... Do you have a recommendation on burner type?

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Since you are using solenoids and not furnace gas valves, there is no need to run low pressure. The 23 tip burners will work well. Use a 0-30 PSI Regulator. You may need to run 3/4" pipe. Plan on using a LOT of propane.

603shane said:

Jon,

I'm in the process of putting together a system based on your design. (Stand is welded, many parts are in, etc)

I'm at the point where I need to select burners.... (I've got the line created with manual shutoff valves and auto valves coming from valves4projects). I'm choosing to go LP vs Nat gas for portability.... Since I'm going LP it looks like i'll have to worry about sizing a regulator as well..... Hoping to produce 25g batches... Do you have a recommendation on burner type?

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If you were doing 10 gallon batches, there would be a few options for burners, but at 25 gallons, you are probably limited to the 32 tip jet burners (or the 23 tip ones). As OneHoppyGuy says, be prepared to go through a lot of propane!

Honestly, at 25 gallons, I think you would be much better off doing natural gas (if you can). Your usage compared to a 10 gallon system will be huge.

JonW said:

If you were doing 10 gallon batches, there would be a few options for burners, but at 25 gallons, you are probably limited to the 32 tip jet burners (or the 23 tip ones). As OneHoppyGuy says, be prepared to go through a lot of propane!

Honestly, at 25 gallons, I think you would be much better off doing natural gas (if you can). Your usage compared to a 10 gallon system will be huge.

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This is sobering... What size batches are you doing with the jet burners? Your plans seem to show up to 30 gallon pots....

603shane said:

This is sobering... What size batches are you doing with the jet burners? Your plans seem to show up to 30 gallon pots....

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I currently use 20 gallon pots. The most I every have had in my BK is about 15 gallons. The 10 tip ones for that are perfect. The 23's will work just fine for your 25g batches.

Thank you for the advice. On another note, did you use the 2" long MPT temp probes for the BCS 462? I saw your comment about convenience... If your probes are 2" with half of the probe sticking out from the pumps, have your temps been accurate?

I can tell you for a fact that the B3 system uses 10 tip jet burners for their 26g system and it works just fine.

luhrks said:

I can tell you for a fact that the B3 system uses 10 tip jet burners for their 26g system and it works just fine.

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Yep, when they should be using a Banjo burner if running propane... Never understood some of Regan's logic

603shane said:

Thank you for the advice. On another note, did you use the 2" long MPT temp probes for the BCS 462? I saw your comment about convenience... If your probes are 2" with half of the probe sticking out from the pumps, have your temps been accurate?

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My probes are 6" long. They stick into the fitting area right into the flow of the liquid. Not sure where the 2" reference came from.

Purchases
6 Ball valves can be manually operated (12V ) https://www.oscsys.com/store/product/291
3 March SS Center Inlet Pump (120V)
3 Gas Solenoid Gas Valves (12V)
3 "Honeywell Glowfly Hot Surface Igniter". (120V) Ebay Model number Q32001004
1 BCS-462 http://brewershardware.com
1 BCS-DIGI 16 Expansion Board; non-powered
1 8 channel PIC Relay 12V

I am looking for a 12V power supply for my 9- 12V D/C Valves.
Any ideas?

rkjones1953 said:

I am looking for a 12V power supply for my 9- 12V D/C Valves.
Any ideas?

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The power supply you get really depends on how much current you need. I used 12V ball valves for the liquid side, but I used 120V valves for the gas solenoids because the 12V ones needed a lot of current. 12V solenoids need something like 800 mA, so for 3 valves, you need 2.4 amps. That's a lot of 12V current. Instead, use the 120V gas valves and trigger them with an SSR just like the pumps. They will only need a couple of milliamps to trigger. The 12V ball valves only use something like 40 mA to operate. A single 1 amp 12V power supply can run all the ball valves and relay board, with plenty of current to spare.

I used 120v for my gas also and the 12vdc ball valves for the liguid side (7 total). The valves only use current when they are opening or closing so its more efficient and as a result the power supply can be smaller (mine was the 5A one). Worst case scenerio is to add up how much current they all will use at once and use a power supply that produces that much current at least. I got my power supplies from ebay (china) for only 10 bucks a piece. Make sure you take cover off them and check for the 120 volt jumper settings on them mine came with the jumper set to 220. They are working great on my rig. the sellers name is "gadgetextreme" just look his store up on ebay.

Jon, or anyone else for that matter, I'm not grasping the relay board thing. The BCS has a 5V output and the ball valves require 12V. How are you getting 12V to the valves from the BCS?

The coil of a relay does not have to require the same voltage or amperage of the load that it is switching. That's the biggest advantage of a relay.

The relay board pictured runs on 5VDC, the coils are 5VDC and we are switching 5VDC, 12VDC, 24VAC and 120VAC

BigHefty said:

Jon, or anyone else for that matter, I'm not grasping the relay board thing. The BCS has a 5V output and the ball valves require 12V. How are you getting 12V to the valves from the BCS?

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The 5V output of the BCS does not power anything - it is merely a 5V trigger. Think of your 120V SSR's... You wire up a pump to them and when the BCS activates the output to the SSR, it just triggers it to switch the 120V current. With your 12V setup, you have valves and relays that need 12V to operate. The BCS again just triggers the relay, but the relay itself and the valves use 12V.

Some people mistakenly think that if they use 5V relays, that they don't need the extra power supply for the relay board, but this is wrong. The output of the BCS is only meant to be used as a trigger and not to power relay coils or other devices.

Jon and OneHoppy,

Thanks!! Man, do I feel like a dumba$$ now! LOL I clearly see how it works now. Had I viewed it as something like an SSR originally, I would have grasped it much sooner.

Thanks again!!

Geoff

OneHoppyGuy said:

The coil of a relay does not have to require the same voltage or amperage of the load that it is switching. That's the biggest advantage of a relay.

The relay board pictured runs on 5VDC, the coils are 5VDC and we are switching 5VDC, 12VDC, 24VAC and 120VAC

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Kurt, are you using the WYSE thin client in place of a pc? If so, how well does it work? Which model are you using? Will it work with a touch screen monitor?

JonW said:

The power supply you get really depends on how much current you need. I used 12V ball valves for the liquid side, but I used 120V valves for the gas solenoids because the 12V ones needed a lot of current. 12V solenoids need something like 800 mA, so for 3 valves, you need 2.4 amps. That's a lot of 12V current. Instead, use the 120V gas valves and trigger them with an SSR just like the pumps. They will only need a couple of milliamps to trigger. The 12V ball valves only use something like 40 mA to operate. A single 1 amp 12V power supply can run all the ball valves and relay board, with plenty of current to spare.

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Thanks JonW. I spoke to the people at valves4projects. They swapped the 12V for the 120Volt.

Jon:

How is your buddies (Luke I think) rig with BG14 burners working out. I plan to build a stand very similar using Natural Gas and Stainless in the next few weeks. Thank you for sharing your experience, I have enjoyed reading the thread.

flounder21 said:

Jon:

How is your buddies (Luke I think) rig with BG14 burners working out. I plan to build a stand very similar using Natural Gas and Stainless in the next few weeks. Thank you for sharing your experience, I have enjoyed reading the thread.

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His is working good. We had to do some tweaks to get it to work well though. My initial design with the corner gussets works fine for my setup with jet burners, but cuts air flow with the BG14 ones (since they don't burn with the same velocity). We did an open back style on his.

JonW said:

We had to do some tweaks to get it to work well though. My initial design with the corner gussets works fine for my setup with jet burners, but cuts air flow with the BG14 ones (since they don't burn with the same velocity). We did an open back style on his.

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Was this trial and error? Could you mount the BG's a little lower to avoid the air flow issues?

I'm still trying to figure out the best propane burner for 15g batches with your original stand design. Options are:
- 10 tip Jet
- 23 tip Jet
- BG14's
What do you think?

fwiw, it seems folks that start with a 23 tip burner inevitably end up plugging more than half of the jets when using them with ~15 gallon vessels. So I would rule those out straight away, unless you're doing barrel batches...

Cheers!

For 20g or under the 10 jet will be plenty hot enough.

Do you entertain guests on brew days at all? I'd love to see this thing in person. My brew partner lives in HB off Garfield and Florida.

603shane said:

Was this trial and error? Could you mount the BG's a little lower to avoid the air flow issues?

I'm still trying to figure out the best propane burner for 15g batches with your original stand design. Options are:
- 10 tip Jet
- 23 tip Jet
- BG14's
What do you think?

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Yes, a lot of trial and error. Trying different heights and open/closed burner shields mostly. It seems with the jet wok burners that you can get away with a lot because the velocity of the jet tips helps evacuate the spent gas from under the kettle. With the BG14's, you have so many tips in the burn area that the velocity coming out of the burner is nil. Because of this, you need a design that allows very good air flow for the spent fuel to exit the burn area quickly. If you can do that, then the BG14's work well.

I am personally getting ready to build a new rig that will be very similar to my current setup (but all polished SS) and I will be looking to use the BG14's from Brewers Hardware. I like how they run silent as opposed to my jet engines running all the time.

Paramecium said:

Do you entertain guests on brew days at all? I'd love to see this thing in person. My brew partner lives in HB off Garfield and Florida.

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Yes I often have people over on brew days. I don't have my next one on the calendar yet, but I can let you know.

603shane said:

Was this trial and error? Could you mount the BG's a little lower to avoid the air flow issues?

I'm still trying to figure out the best propane burner for 15g batches with your original stand design. Options are:
- 10 tip Jet
- 23 tip Jet
- BG14's
What do you think?

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Been there / done that, visit our website and/or Facebook page.

Unless you are running NG, your best choice is the BG-14 for 15 gallon batches. If you are automating your burners avoid using low pressure. We have a method that is for more effective and cost efficient and will glad share the information and parts list.

As for burner mounting we have solved that issue also.