Or a turkey baster
Yeast Washing Illustrated
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Those look pretty good, it should be enough. Never hurts to do a 1L starter with that too, just to wake them back up.
Use this and then the slurry tab to figure how much you need.
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
I've thought of that. I still think draining the bottom and leaving only the yeast layer will be the most accurate. We'll see.
mtnagel said:
Maybe. Really when it comes down to it, its not much trub and shouldn't be a very big deal. Just make a nice fat starter and your good to go.
catdaddy66
Well-Known Member
Rather than look thru this entire thread I was hoping for some clarity on a yeast term...
Would this washed yeast be considered a "slurry"?
Thanks for the info...
Would this washed yeast be considered a "slurry"?
Thanks for the info...
catdaddy66 said:
That's the way I understood it.
zeg
Well-Known Member
Yes. Also, the traditional correct term for this process is "rinsing," rather than washing. Washing refers to a procedure involving acids that does a more thorough job. I think this is still accurate terminology, though among homebrewers true washing is so rare that the distinction is mostly moot.
Karkinos
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You might also consider checking out the link in my signature called "Yeast Harvesting: A Novel Approach?"
I wish I would've read your post before washing my yeast for the first time. From now on, I'm following your method.
Brulosopher
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Karkinos said:
Glad to help. Cheers!
catdaddy66
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zeg said:
Thanks zag. How long can the rinsed yeast last in the jars?
Karkinos
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You might also consider checking out the link in my signature called "Yeast Harvesting: A Novel Approach?"
I wish I would've read your post before washing my yeast for the first time. From now on, I'm following your method.
I've seen 6-12 months quoted but I know I've seen a few people push it even farther with success.
DuckiesRevenge
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I'll second that. I've used them 7 months later and it still made great beer. No problems with fermentation either. I would have no problems trying one a year later if stored correctly.
zeg
Well-Known Member
I'd just add that the experts (meaning laboratory experts) suggest reusing rinsed yeast within a week or so, or a few weeks tops, for best results. That is extremely conservative compared to the experiences reported here (and, though the beer is still lagering so I don't know for certain, all signs are that my results are successful with a 3 month storage).
From what I've read, I conjecture that the most likely problem would be a change in the character of the yeast rather than an outright failure. That might explain the discrepancy: the lab guys would be concerned with maintaining the specific characteristics of the strain, whereas most homebrewers would be content with minor variations batch-to-batch.
In any case, do be sure to make a starter. Probably pretty close to a must for any rinsed yeast.
From what I've read, I conjecture that the most likely problem would be a change in the character of the yeast rather than an outright failure. That might explain the discrepancy: the lab guys would be concerned with maintaining the specific characteristics of the strain, whereas most homebrewers would be content with minor variations batch-to-batch.
In any case, do be sure to make a starter. Probably pretty close to a must for any rinsed yeast.
brewski09
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zeg said:
It is all about mutations for using within a week. I don't do a starter if reusing within 2 weeks if I have enough yeast cells to start (WLP862) and have no problems. It's like pitching onto a yeast cake at that point...
ModernDayNord
Member
Rather than save 5 jars of enough yeast to build a starter, has anyone determined a good way to save enough yeast to pitch directly? Maybe combine the yeast from 2 of the jars?
ModernDayNord said:
I just did a batch and pitched 3 jars. Fermentation took off quick and was very active.
zeg
Well-Known Member
If you're storing the yeast for a short time, then either combine the yeast into a single jar. You could also use a single larger jar for your final stage and skip the combining---this would save some chances for infection.
If you're going to store for a long time, I think a starter would be wise just to ensure that your yeast are still reasonably viable. If your starter never starts, or takes a very long time, that's a clue that you may be about to waste a batch of wort.
For an instant (or maybe next-day, I don't recall) re-use, I've rinsed and just poured the volume I wanted into a sanitized carboy in the last step. Since it was a short time, I didn't worry about the air space. It worked...
If you're going to store for a long time, I think a starter would be wise just to ensure that your yeast are still reasonably viable. If your starter never starts, or takes a very long time, that's a clue that you may be about to waste a batch of wort.
For an instant (or maybe next-day, I don't recall) re-use, I've rinsed and just poured the volume I wanted into a sanitized carboy in the last step. Since it was a short time, I didn't worry about the air space. It worked...
catdaddy66
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Looks good! I did my first attempt and captured 4 half pint jars of S-04. One jar has a lot trub (hop and protein sediment) but the others look clean. Hoping they perform well when called out of the bullpen !
@CatDaddy66:
If you push it out months or even a year before re-using it it's absolutely critical to make a starter obviously because the viability is in awful percentage ranges. If you pitch not long after bottling you can get away without doing one if you've got enough slurry to do it. Mr. Malty has a calc for that if it helps.
If you push it out months or even a year before re-using it it's absolutely critical to make a starter obviously because the viability is in awful percentage ranges. If you pitch not long after bottling you can get away without doing one if you've got enough slurry to do it. Mr. Malty has a calc for that if it helps.
catdaddy66
Well-Known Member
I've recently used a starter (didn't used to) and was very impressed with the performance! I know the rinsed yeast need time to multiply before being pitched, so I'll need to change my pre brew routine to include making a starter 48 hours ahead of time.
If you look back at my picture just a few posts ago. That's a pretty good amount of yeast. I'm sure a 1 to 1.5L starter over 24 hours would be fine.
A question about your method Bulosopher. And bear with me, I catch on real fast after a long time. So I may have missed something you already covered in your article.
Let's say I just want to collect multiple jars on a non brew day. I have a canner and have canned a large amount of starter wort that I currently use for my starters. Here's basically how I would imagine this going in my flask, capable of making 2L starters.
1. One vial/smackpack plus starter wort to 2L.
2. Grow as normal 24-48 hrs with O2 (my pre-made starter wort already contains nutrient)
3. Prepare/sanitized 4 1 pint mason jars.
4. Swirl yeast into suspension in my flask and fill each of the 500ml jars
5. Prepare 4 half-pint mason jars with boiling water in micorwave per your instructions.
6. Cold crash yeast over night while sealed jars are allowed to cool to room temp.
7. Decant each pint jar into 1/2 pint jars per your instructions.
If I get it right, I should be able to turn the one vial into 4 half-pints using this method. So I have 2 questions:
1. It looks like your method produces approximately 1/2 inch of slurry per half pint jar. How does this relate to a White Labs vial for the purposes of making a starter? Would this be considered equivalent to a single vial? A little more? A little less?
2. Let's say I harvest yeast from a commercial beer? I have a smaller (750ml or so) flask that I could use for a smaller step before I moved to my 2L flask. How much slurry would you recommend I grow from a bottle of beer before I make the large starter to split?
I ask because a friend was able to bring a couple of Heady Toppers back from a recent trip and we'd like to use your method to harvest some Conan.
There is still a viability curve with yeast you rinse. Depending on your harvest you might can get away with pitching without the starter just the same but time is not your friend. I simply don't have a need for 4-5 jars of one type of yeast in my fridge. In any event, the less it's handled or manipulated the better the chances of not getting contaminated you have I would think.
The only downside I've ever run into doing that was excessively overpitching just the super white type yeast you see in many of the pictures. But to be fair, I had nearly 2oz of it in a fairly light beer.
In any event, the less it's handled or manipulated the better the chances of not getting contaminated you have I would think.The only downside I've ever run into doing that was excessively overpitching just the super white type yeast you see in many of the pictures. But to be fair, I had nearly 2oz of it in a fairly light beer.
Brulosopher
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Okay... let me first address what I've been doing slightly differently lately, it's a simple change. Rather than microwaving the small jars with water and letting them cool, I've been sanitizing them and using already boiled and cooled water that is leftover in my tea kettle. It has been working beautifully, so that's another option. Other than that, you're right on with my process!
Now to answer your questions (you may be disappointed):
1. No one with the skills has taken on the task of counting the cells yet, but according to Kai's stir plate calculator (at YeastCalc.com), there should be about 100 billion cells, which is exactly equivalent to WL and Wyeast.
2. I have no idea, perhaps someone much smarter than me would be willing to answer this question. If it were me, I'd use the dregs from all 4 cans of HT, build it up in a .5L starter, then pitch that slurry into a 2L starter. Or you could just send me a can for all the terribly hard work I put into this article :cross: (I've never had it and you can't find it out here on the West Coast).
Hopefully that helps. Cheers!
Brulosopher said:
Not disappointed at all. I don't have a microscope and in absence of true scientific proof, treating it like a single vial works for me.
And for the HT, I'm only able to partake because I'm the one with the stir plate. I figure if he had his own stir plate, I'd probably be shut out myself.
For your water change, I was going to make a change myself. I can my starter wort in a pressure canner. I was planning in just doing a batch of canned water the next time I make some starter wort. May be a little over kill but as long as I have the gear out, what's one more run of jars? Then I would have some sealed, sterilized water ready when I rinse the yeast.
Brulosopher
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winvarin said:
Sounds good to me!
I washed my yeast yesterday, refrigerated overnight and decided to brew today and plan on using the yeast I just washed.
From what I read, it is OK to pitch without starter since it was just cultivated yesterday?
Should I use two pint jar worth of yeast since I'm not using a starter?
FYI, the beer I'm brewing is around 5%.
Thanks in advance!
From what I read, it is OK to pitch without starter since it was just cultivated yesterday?
Should I use two pint jar worth of yeast since I'm not using a starter?
FYI, the beer I'm brewing is around 5%.
Thanks in advance!
Brulosopher
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vutoq said:
I'd use 1 pint
MrEggSandwich
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Thanks for this...I may try this tomorrow.
My question is: What volume am I looking for in each container? I have 1 quart Ball jars....What volume should I be looking for in each for re-use? I am assuming filling would be too much for a starter.
My question is: What volume am I looking for in each container? I have 1 quart Ball jars....What volume should I be looking for in each for re-use? I am assuming filling would be too much for a starter.
JonGrafto
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Has anyone done this??! Instead of my blow off into starsan, I have sterile water and am technically "top cropping" the yeast. Pretty sure this will be good to go.
bumstigedy
Member
I followed the directions from this thread, and got a pretty good result this time!
Here is a picture after sitting in the fridge for about 5 days.
Here is a picture of the water/yeast mixture in the second settling step (after I completed the first step of mixing a gallon of water in the carboy and letting it sit.)
Here is a picture after sitting in the fridge for about 5 days.
Here is a picture of the water/yeast mixture in the second settling step (after I completed the first step of mixing a gallon of water in the carboy and letting it sit.)
JonGrafto said:
Yes this has been done actually Sam Scott was interviewed in February 2009 on Basic Brewing radio you can listen here http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr02-26-09topcrop.mp3 and there is a link to a video he has of actually doing it. http://www.aleiens.com/video/top-cropping-yeast-from-a
JonGrafto
Well-Known Member
Yes it is similar but a Burton Union returns the beer back to the fermenter, if I am understanding it correctly.
My blowoff has subsided and I am now crashing my erlenmeyer to see how much yeast settles out. It already looks like a large amount.
I would say it is a healthy 1/2" in my 3000 ml flask.
So, how would the process be different with a lager strain? I attempted this process last evening but the two layers weren't present. I used a sanitized turkey baster to extract the yeast at the upper level of the settled out portion and transferred it to the mason jars. 24 hours later you can see the separation between the water and the yeast but that's it.
zeg
Well-Known Member
I did this with WLP833 lager yeast and it worked exactly as described. I didn't get a whole lot of yeast out of it, though that may be due to my also grabbing some of it for immediate use. It amounted to probably 7-10 mL of compacted, clean slurry in each of 4 pint jars. It appeared to be less than many people get on here, but was plenty for a starter (for these lagers, I was doing multistep starters in any case).
JonGrafto
Well-Known Member
Update:
This is a picture of what I ended up with by directing my blowoff into sterile water and then cold crashing. Pure white yeast at the bottom of my 3000 ml erlenmeyer. Looks good to me.
See post #1913 for my setup.
This is a picture of what I ended up with by directing my blowoff into sterile water and then cold crashing. Pure white yeast at the bottom of my 3000 ml erlenmeyer. Looks good to me.
See post #1913 for my setup.
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