Plan for brewing long-expired kit

I have a Cooper's Mexican Cerveza kit (just a can of pre-hopped LME with a sachet of yeast taped to the top) that expired in 2011. Now, as I understand it, the "expiry dates" on these things primarily refers to the yeast. I also expect that maillard reactions will have significantly darkened the LME, but I just can't bring myself to throw the thing out. I figure I might as well brew it anyway, maybe make it an experiment and see what happens. My plan is to brew it as a lager, using lager yeast, and add some leftover Cascade hops to give it a little character.

I'm going to brew it this weekend. Here's my plan. I'm going to boil 3 quarts of water, then turn off the burner and add half the can of LME. I'm going to add in 1 oz. of Cascade hops in a hop sock and bring it back to a boil, while stirring. Once boiling again, I'll add 1.4 lbs of dextrose and boil for 15 minutes, then turn off the heat and add the rest of the extract. I'll stir it in good, then move the pot to an ice bath in my sink and chill it down.

I'm going to pour the wort into a fermenter, and pitch a couple liters of lager yeast (Wyeast Czech Pilsener, washed from a previous batch) and put the carboy in my fermentation chamber at 40° F for 7-10 days. Once the krausen starts to drop, I'll let it warm to room temperature for 4 days to finish up, then move it into the fridge to lager for a month.

I don't want to waste a keg or CO2 on it, so I'm going to bottle condition (haven't done that in years). I'll bulk prime, then bottle and store it at 70+° F for another month, then put them in the fridge and see what I end up with.

What do you guys think? Am I wasting my time? Is there a chance this might turn out?

Why not, you will have beer doesn't matter what you do.

I on the other hand would go a different route, I wouldn't boil the LME (it's going to come out even darker still), why not steep something like 100g crystal 40/60 and use that for your hop additions OR think about adding some DME instead of the crystal 40/60 maybe 500grams, those coopers kits can be dry and watered down sometimes (but maybe you like it that way because I see you opt for dextrose rather than dme). Just add the LME at flameout.

Everything else looks stock standard. Let us know how it turned out!

i'm no expert, but i believe you aren't supposed to boil the Coopers Cans.

Bretheren said:

I wouldn't boil the LME (it's going to come out even darker still), why not steep something like 100g crystal 40/60 and use that for your hop additions OR think about adding some DME instead of the crystal 40/60 maybe 500grams

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I considered some specialty grains, but knowing the age of the kit and the fact that it's LME, I expect it to finish at a fairly high F.G. anyway, giving it a sweet character. I was worried more unfermentables would push it even sweeter still.

I hadn't thought of the DME, that might be an option.

Bretheren said:

Those coopers kits can be dry and watered down sometimes (but maybe you like it that way because I see you opt for dextrose rather than dme).

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I'm worried about the high finishing gravity of an all-extract brew, and was hoping to dry it out as much as possible.

JDGator said:

i'm no expert, but i believe you aren't supposed to boil the Coopers Cans.

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Absolutely right. It's because it's a "pre-hopped" LME, and as you know, boiling hops isomerizes the acids in the hop oils. A pre-hopped kit already has all the necessary hops added at the appropriate times to impart the desired flavour characteristics, including flavour and aroma additions. Boiling the LME risks converting those flavour and aroma additions into bittering additions.

I was hoping to "minimize the damage" by only boiling half the extract, but I assumed I needed to boil at least SOME of it in order to obtain even a modest hop utilization from my Cascade hops. As I understand it, boiling hops in plain water results in terrible hop utilization. They need some sugar in the wort to "cling" to. But as Bretheren suggested, maybe DME would do the trick. Heck, would even just the pound and a half of dextrose be enough to extract a meaningful amount of hop utilization from the hops?

JDGator said:

i'm no expert, but i believe you aren't supposed to boil the Coopers Cans.

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You can boil them like a regular extract recipe. However some people opt to just pour it in the fermenter with pre-boiled water and stir. I have done both. Neither came out great. I even added dme to both for extra OG boost.

That craigtube guy is always dumping his extract, then pouring boiled water over it......I used to watch him alot when I first started out, then realised he's about as boring as watching paint dry.

stmou984 said:

You can boil them like a regular extract recipe. However some people opt to just pour it in the fermenter with pre-boiled water and stir. I have done both. Neither came out great. I even added dme to both for extra OG boost.

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No,you should never boil pre-hopped extract. it turns flavor additions into bittering ones & LME darkens in the boil anyway. Use some DMe,maybe 1.5lbs in 2 gallons of water for the hop addition. Even a pound would be ok since you're adding sugar. Just add the sugar & Cooper's can at flmae out.
This way,you'll give it a better chance of turning out half decent.
The pic of Summer Ale in my gallery was a 2 year old Cooper's OS Lager can I brewed up. It looked & tasted like a session version of Salvator.
So you may not get what it was supposed to be,but something good anyway.

dstranger99 said:

That craigtube guy is always dumping his extract, then pouring boiled water over it......I used to watch him alot when I first started out, then realised he's about as boring as watching paint dry.

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Yes I attempted watching him early on...boring...creeper.

I'd go for it. worst thing that could happen is the beer tastes less than great. but you've already spent the money, might as well use the kit.

I bet you there are a ton if brewers that got started after watching his videos. I know i did!! I enjoy his love for homebrew.

JDGator said:

I bet you there are a ton if brewers that got started after watching his videos. I know i did!! I enjoy his love for homebrew.

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Is he an albino? He's awfully pale.........

I'm not 100% sure but i'd say he is. Reminds me of a kid i went to high school with that was albino forsure!

People have brewed kits on here that were 10, 20 even 30 years old....2 is NOT a big deal by any means....

So what's the consensus regarding boiling the extract? If I instead just boil the dextrose with the hops, will I still get decent hop utilization? Or should I use DME instead? (I'd rather use the dextrose, it's a lot cheaper and I already have it).

Use DME. The dextrose will caramelize in a 1 hour boil.

unionrdr said:

Use DME. The dextrose will caramelize in a 1 hour boil.

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I was only planning on boiling for 10-15 minutes. Same recommendation?

If it were me I would treat the extract as unhopped and make up a normal schedule of hop additions for an hour boil. Boiling a hopped extract that is not meant to be boiled will change the bitterness and aroma profiles of the hops in the extract.

Personally I would make it, but have no expectations that it would even be drinkable after messing with it that much.

DME would be better in a partial boil for 20 minutes or so to do a flavor hop addition. Then add the sugar near the end of the boil. Can at flame out & stir well.

Couple of say use DME with the hops and don't boil the kit, I say go for it! I want to hear how it came out and what you did!

Boiling pre-hopped extract will ruin the later hop additions,turning them all into bittering. Trust me. Besides the fact that it's old is going to darken it. A 1 hour boil will darken it even more.

unionrdr said:

Boiling pre-hopped extract will ruin the later hop additions,turning them all into bittering. Trust me. Besides the fact that it's old is going to darken it. A 1 hour boil will darken it even more.

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My just realised my post could be read wrongly, I meant go ahead with brewing not boiling! Couldn't agree with you more, that's what I was preaching from my first post!

Well I brewed this yesterday, mostly according to the plan I posted, but with a couple minor changes thanks to your suggestions. I only did a 10 minute boil instead of 15, and I held the entire can of extract back until after the boil. I boiled the hops with just the 1.4 lbs of dextrose instead. After flameout, I added in the entire can of extract and stirred it well.

The carboy is sitting in my fermentation chamber now, it looks like the yeast are getting to work. I'm curious to see how this batch turns out, but it's going to be a while before I get to taste the finished product.

Subscribed. Now we wait...how did it smell?

It smelled great! Like a brewery.

So I brewed it as planned, lagered it for a month and kegged it. It actually turned out pretty great! It has a little bit of that "extract twang", but I think it's the best all-extract batch I've ever made. I think the choice to use a lager yeast and lager it for a month really worked to its benefit. It's a nice, easy-drinking brew, I'm glad I went through with it.

Glad it turned out good for you too. Mine was a hair darker & different tasting than a fresh OS Lager. More like a Salvator doppel bock. It can be interesting when done according to a good process.

I did something similar with an old kit. I replaced the specialty grains and yeast of a 2 year old kit. To this day my father thinks it was the best one I brewed. I have to admit it was pretty dam good. I kept the malt, hops and oak chips it came with.