The 'Eugenia Uniflora' mead experiment

Hey guys,
I have a Eugenia Uniflora tree in my garden and it's fruits are calling to me...
In case you don't know what it is (I didn't know the fruit until I had a tree), it's also known as the Surinam Cherry or Brazillian Cherry. Google it.

In case you're wondering about the fruit itself: is the size of a cherry, has an orange/red color, tastes like a combination of tomato and yellow bell pepper with some sourness and sweetness.

Yesterday, I was at my HBS and saw small fermentation vessels (10 Liters) and decided it's time to experiment. I've been wanting to make mead for a few years now and never have..

Anyhoo, I don't suppose someone has any experience with this fruit in beer/mead..? The plan is to make mead with it.
This thread is mostly just for me to document the process and share with you guys the weirdly awesome fruit.

11/5 - Took down a bit more of 2 Kgs of fruit from the tree, and stuck in the freezer. In a few days i'll take some more down.

Recipe concerns:

The 2.6 gallon (10 liter) fermentation tank i'm gonna use is small. I'm not sure it'll hold the amount of liquid + fruit i'm aiming for. That's why i'll rack into one of my primary 6 gallon carboys.

So the recipe is as simple as:
7 lbs Honey (haven't decided what kind yet)
2 gal water
S-04 yeast

Once initial fermentation is calm, I'll rack into carboy + thawed fruit WITH stones. 'Drown' the floaters / Stir every two days for 2-3 weeks.

I can't find any nutrients for the yeast around here, so i'm praying that all will go well. Tips/tricks/notes/observations are welcome!

Nutrients ? Mail order a small pack 100 or 200 grammes ? Not expensive and I shouldn't have though the shipping/postage would be much......

Hell, a good hunt around and you might even find someone who'd sell you a little of the kosher certified version of Fermaidk.

Not knowing that fruit I can't think of quantity per gallon but if you racked the base mead onto the fruit at about 2/3rd sugar break you'd have enough CO2 produced to blanket in the larger fermenter and then you could punch down any fruit cap daily like when making proper grape wines......

fatbloke said:

Hell, a good hunt around and you might even find someone who'd sell you a little of the kosher certified version of Fermaidk.

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Kosher or not is a non-issue for me and mine.
I talked to my HBS guy again today and he said he has some nutrients on the way.

fatbloke said:

Not knowing that fruit I can't think of quantity per gallon but if you racked the base mead onto the fruit at about 2/3rd sugar break you'd have enough CO2 produced to blanket in the larger fermenter and then you could punch down any fruit cap daily like when making proper grape wines......

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2/3rd sugar break sounds like a plan.
Thanks!

IdoNisso said:

Kosher or not is a non-issue for me and mine.
I talked to my HBS guy again today and he said he has some nutrients on the way.

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Excellent. I was gonna suggest trying Brouwland in Belgium as they have a track record for international shipping and the nutrivit is pretty good stuff.

2/3rd sugar break sounds like a plan.
Thanks!

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If it was my brew, I'd most likely wait for the ferment to finish completely then work out an approximate weight of fruit to the gallon, then just rack it onto the fruit in glass jugs/carboys so its all enclosed. The point being that I'm lazy and the batches would be left until the fruit dropped.

Then again I have enough glass of various sizes.

The 2/3rd sugar break idea is probably a good compromise given the need to use a bucket that will have extra air space etc. I would still punch the cap down daily or even just swirl the fermenter as it would prevent possible air/O2 issues with the fruit and the cap drying out etc etc.

I hope you'll update this one about how it finishes up. It's always good to read of how unusual (here anyway) fruit works out.

Interesting. These things pop up everywhere in FLA and I have tried making a pie with them but it was NOT good. There are a handful of cultivars and the deep red/purple seems to be the most palatable to me (and the birds)-they volunteer everywhere. I don't think I have seen the cultivar you have but have read about it. I have a hedge of the deep red ones -but I don't the the birds would allow me to come up with that many ripe ones at any one time. They only grow to maybe 5-6 feet here. Good luck I will keep an eye on this thread.

Sounds like they would be great in a salsa! I prefer to split the fruit between the primary with most of the fruit and the secondary add some fruit to refresh the taste. There always seems to be two camps on this, those that want to make fruit flavored mead and those who want to make fermented fruit mead. The taste of your fruit does not seem to be very strong? so add as much as you can in the primary would give you more flavor in the end than just added a little bit at the end, or do both and get the best of both methods.

I have heard that this tree also is a very good nectar plant, do you have any local beekeepers who could sell you some brazilian pepper tree honey?

WVMJ

WVMJ said:

-----snip-----
I have heard that this tree also is a very good nectar plant, do you have any local beekeepers who could sell you some brazilian pepper tree honey?

WVMJ

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See now that's what I call a complete effin' masterstroke of an idea Jack.......

WVMJ said:

Sounds like they would be great in a salsa! I prefer to split the fruit between the primary with most of the fruit and the secondary add some fruit to refresh the taste. There always seems to be two camps on this, those that want to make fruit flavored mead and those who want to make fermented fruit mead. The taste of your fruit does not seem to be very strong? so add as much as you can in the primary would give you more flavor in the end than just added a little bit at the end, or do both and get the best of both methods.

I have heard that this tree also is a very good nectar plant, do you have any local beekeepers who could sell you some brazilian pepper tree honey?

WVMJ

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The split sounds like a great idea, I'll do it.
2/3rds in primary and 1/3rd in secondary is the way to go?

I'm a noob in all honey-related, so I didn't quite understand the nectar/brazilian pepper tree thing..

Whoops, got it confused with the Brazilian pepper tree which over here is used to make honey, your tree seems to be good for pollen not nectar. WVMJ

Small update:
Today I picked some more fruit off the tree, I have more then 3 kgs and i'm pretty sure that's enough for a 10L batch.
The day continued with purchasing the honey (and last minute organic raisins) and then, finally, making the mead.
OG - 1.115

After filling the new plastic fermentor i bought last week, I think it is possible to add the fruit and not overflow, so new plan:
Wait till 2/3 sugar break, add half of the fruit in primary, rack to secondary with other half of fruit once fermentation calms down. Maybe, if i'm feeling creative, I'll throw in some oak chips at some point.

More updates will arrive as soon as I have 'em.

Excellent..........

That second picture looked rather like a pot on the hob. You weren't heating the honey must were you ?

Nope, added the honey to the water when the heat was off at 50C and stirred like a maniac.

Another quick update.
I wasn't home at all since I pitched my yeast, so I had no idea what was going on there. Today I arrived and was bummed to see that no fermentation was going on, AT ALL. I opened the plastic bucket to check no infection was up and to my surprise, the must was still clean and smelled amazing. The fermentation never even started.

Quickly ran back to my HBS and bought another pack of yeast. I have no clue what happened/I did wrong, but 30 minutes after I pitched the second pack of yeast the fermentation picked up vigorously.

I suspect the yeast package I pitched at first was bad somehow, but now it's all good.

Hey guys,
Updating on what's going on with the mead:

Yesterday I brewed a batch of beer, so I had all my gear sanitized. Decided to use that opportunity to open up the mead and maybe rack it with the fruit if it's close enough.
It had a SG of 1.060 so I went for it.

Racked the mead onto 3.5 (!) kgs of thawed fruit and a bit of vodka to make sure it's clean. When it was still clear, it smelled and tasted still very sweet but really really good.

I forgot to take pics this time, though, so none will be uploaded. Take my word for it - the deep red/dark orange color the fruit gave the mead is beautiful.

I'd recommend crushing the fruit and maybe removing the stones. Fruit skin is supposed to be a pretty good barrier for keeping fruit stuff in. I tried making a wine with intact fruit (eating grapes) one time and the fruit hardly did anything for flavor. And the stones - I don't know anything about your particular fruit, but my understanding is that some stones can contain undesirable compounds (bad flavors or possibly toxic). I don't have any good references off the top of my head, this is just a thing I seem to remember reading somewhere, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.
Oh whoops, looks like my post was two days late. Curious to see how it comes out though!

Take a pic of the fruit if you get a chance, it would be interesting to see what they looked like. WVMJ

Hey guys,
I finally got around to bottle this.
First off, I have to say - this is one of the most unique things I've ever tasted. The fruit tastes have almost taken over completely and there is a mild honey aftertaste. Now, the events of the day:

I opened the fermentor up this morning to check if all is well and got a good whiff of alcohol to my face, almost passed out. It was amazing

You'll probably want to sit down for this: Gravity reading was, and i'm not joking, 1.004! Frickin 14.9% ABV BEFORE accounting the fruit!
I immediately took out all my bottling gear and bottled it all up.

Sadly, I don't have a fridge to chill the fermentor, so it's all hazy..
Got 9.3 liters, total.

In the photos: the bottled Melomel/Mead/whatever-this-is, and the left over fruit in the fermentor. As you can see, the floating fruit is mostly intact but the fruit on the bottom was basically just stones. The yeasties ate it all

I took all the bottles and put them in my wine fridge at 14C. How long do you guys think I can age this?

Did you check hydrometer readings over a few days? If your yeast aren't dead, you could have some bottle bombs waiting to happen.

The airlock showed 0 activity for the last month. I'm pretty sure it's safe.

IdoNisso said:

The airlock showed 0 activity for the last month. I'm pretty sure it's safe.

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Im not

You guys think that even though the gravity was 1.004 and I used S-04 yeast, they might still work in the bottle? Really??
Anyway, as you can see in the pic, I left very little airspace. I don't think they can bomb on me. Worst case scenario, It'll be a little gassed.

It depends on how much CO2 was dissolved in the mead when you bottled it. If it warms up enough that gas could be released

My friend, you bottled straight out of the primary before the yeast dropped out. Probably 15% of your volume will be a yeast cake in the bottom. You can not go by airlock, though what people did before airlocks and hydrometers were invented, oh yes they made a lot of vinegar and blew up a lot of sheeps pouches Drink this one young, like have a party next week. Dont store those bottles next to anything nice or one a nice rug. When are you going to start your next batch? WVMJ

I actually opened a small bottle last night. There is indeed a serious yeast sediment on the bottom of the bottle, but that was unavoidable due to my lack of fermentor fridge. There was no fizz when it opened, which is a good sign.

The liquid itself was amazingly gold in color and almost completely clear. I'll upload pictures soon, my phone died and no camera nearby.

Very alcoholic aroma, but flavors are round and soft. Taste was very close to the initial taste of the fruit, without its bitterness in the end. There is a split second after swallow of Honey-like flavors, but I'm the only one that felt that.

My biggest surprise was how the S-04 yeast managed to lower gravity so much, I've never seen gravity so low in my years of beer brewing.

All in all, this was a really fun experience and it exceeded all my expectations (!). I'll be making another mead very soon - probably a straightforward/standard one. Many thanks for all the help and advice!

Wine made beer style You might consider rebottling when it settles out so that the big pile of yeast dont dissolve and give you a funny taste. Its interesting, there are I think 3 major philosophies about making mead, from the beer making view, winemakers view and even a meaders point of view. I dont think you are going to have a problem making mead beer style, we have some SO4 we are going to use to make a cyser this fall, it will be our first attempt with this yeast and using our own apples and honey.

WVMJ

Sorry, I missed the part where you bottled because you dont have a fermentation fridge. You dont need one for meads, after the primary fermentation is done you put it in a carboy and let it clear and then bottle, a little different than making beer. If it was clear you would have much more fruit taste as it wouldnt have to compete with the yeast taste. WVMJ

That's good to know for next time
Although, I can barely feel the yeast tastes as long as I pour gently from the bottle. The S-04 really came through for me here.

Airlock activity may not be a good indicator of a finished fermentation, but clarity definitely is. It's true, you should rack your mead until the lees are gone, or mostly gone, just because it can be aged so long, but it sounds to me like you're safe. It's about 2.5 gravity points per volume of co2, and if it doesn't effervesce and there's no carbonic acid flavor, then fermentation is done.
Sounds like a pretty bang-on FG for my taste though, and it sounds like a tasty brew overall. Any method that produces something you like to drink is a good method. I may have to test out some of your practices

Thats the part that gets you, right now not so bad, but as they yeast degrade they release more stuff from their insides and it can get worse, or, it can even get better depending on your tastes.

I have heard that over there some guys are making fig wines like was made in antiquity, have you run across any of these yet?

WVMJ

IdoNisso said:

That's good to know for next time
Although, I can barely feel the yeast tastes as long as I pour gently from the bottle. The S-04 really came through for me here.

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WVMJ said:

Thats the part that gets you, right now not so bad, but as they yeast degrade they release more stuff from their insides and it can get worse, or, it can even get better depending on your tastes.

I have heard that over there some guys are making fig wines like was made in antiquity, have you run across any of these yet?

WVMJ

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There is a single Winery, named Erez Winery, that produces so-called "wine" from all kinds of fruit, including figs and strawberrys. They claim their methods are original and ancient, but I'm skeptical.

They don't even have a website in English (they suck), but you can look at the pics here: http://www.erez-wines.com/home/doc.aspx?mCatID=68340&mCatID2=68328

IdoNisso said:

There is a single Winery, named Erez Winery, that produces so-called "wine" from all kinds of fruit, including figs and strawberrys. They claim their methods are original and ancient, but I'm skeptical.

They don't even have a website in English (they suck), but you can look at the pics here: http://www.erez-wines.com/home/doc.aspx?mCatID=68340&mCatID2=68328

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Why the denigration? So called wine, why, do you have experience with their products that would lead to this blanket dismissal of their wares? And why would having an English website make them more legitimate?

I guess I was in a bod mood yesterday. Actually know nothing about them..
However, the negativity originated from the fact that I found almost no information about who they are, where they found these methods they use, or any review/tasting notes of their products and that I've never heard of them until WVMJ mentioned them.

I may have been a bit extreme in my dismissal, but I'm still skeptical about them.

I promised a photo of the final product and never delivered, so here it is:
I gotta say, it's getting better with each passing day.