Re-using Kolsch yeast in hefe

Hello all,
I recently washed and re-pitched some American Ale II yeast from a quasi-pale ale to a black IPA and damn, did that thing take off! With only 3 gallons in a 6.5 gallon bucket the airlock was bubbling within as few hours. Having seen this result, I decided to wash the yeast from my Kolsch that I transferred to the secondary yesterday. The thing is that I don't really want to make another kolsch, but I would like to make a hefeweizen and I recall on Jamil's show about Kolsches that the kolsch yeast (Wyeast 2565) is a great yeast for hefeweizens.

Has anyone used this yeast for a hefe, and how do you think it worked out? Any recipes to share? I'm going for something really simple and "pure", in the style of the Erdinger or Weihenstephaner hefes.

Thanks,
John

I dont think it would technically be a hefeweizen if it wasn't using a hefe yeast. The kolsch would be a good yeast to use (most kolsch beers have a similar percentage of wheat as a hefe) but you would still have a kolsch, not a hefe.

Hmmm....I see what you mean. I just went back and found where Jamil mentioned this in the 6.18.06 episode of The Jamil Show and he actually said that kolsch yeast a good yeast to use in American wheat beers, not hefeweizens....my mistake.

So now my question is: has anyone brewed a wheat beer using kolsch yeast and how did it come out? My wife really likes the light beers like the two hefes I mentioned, but Goose Island 312 is also one of her favorites, so anything that's light and wheaty should appeal to her. I made her an Allegash White extract clone that came out a couple shades darker than the Allegash and she didn't love this one, so I want to make something very light in color but with the hefe/wheaty flavor. Think I'll ever get there with a kolsch yeast?

Thanks,
John

All the kolsch beers I have brewed had about 30%-40% wheat used. I think a real simple grain bill (Pilsner Malt and Wheat) would give you a simple but good beer with that yeast.

I've used 2565 in several beers with a high percentage of wheat malt. It's a great all 'round yeast, if you ask me. The yeast does have distinctive characteristics, but they're not intrusive, so you'll know the wheat is there (it's not going to hide the malt character). It's never going to give you anything remotely like a Bavarian weizen, however. If you want a weizen character, you have to use wheat and a weizen yeast. There are no substitutes.

I've used it for an american wheat and loved the results, I think I did 60/40 wheat and 2 row and some fruity NZ hops. I've also used it for a pale ale and an IPA with good success.

I brew a lot of wheat based beers with Kolsch strains and none of them taste like hefewizens. Will be really nice wheat ale hoppy or not depending on your recipe but will not have same esters profile (think banana or clove). Much more closer to American Wheat category. Try Gumball head wheat clone if you into hops or simple 50/50 base and some Centennial to 25 IBU with most reserved for late hopping. Easy drinking summer beers for sure.

Thanks for all the replies. For those who have used the kolsch yeast to make ales or wheat beers, what was your fermentation temp profile? For the kolsch, I did 2 weeks at 62 and am now dropping to 34 for 4-6 weeks. Is the lagering time dictated by the yeast or by the style?

Thanks,
John

JohnK93 said:

Thanks for all the replies. For those who have used the kolsch yeast to make ales or wheat beers, what was your fermentation temp profile? For the kolsch, I did 2 weeks at 62 and am now dropping to 34 for 4-6 weeks. Is the lagering time dictated by the yeast or by the style?

Thanks,
John

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62F is a good fermenting temperature for any of the strains. I used them all, Wyeast 2565 can go as low as 55F with good results, WLP029 likes it a little warmer and manufacturer suggest do not go below 62F however I fermented with it down to 60F. Wyeast 2575 Kolsch II somewhere in between but much quicker in my opinion and drops clear faster. I had 86% attenuation with it in 72 hours and that beer got silver medal at one of the competitions.
I usually pitch at 56-58F and let it rise to 60F and hold it there.

Lagering usually dictated by style. I would lager Kolsch for 3-4 weeks but wouldn't bother lagering with wheat beer brewed with Kolsch strain if you don't mind it cloudy

I've fermented 2565 in my basement in (ambient) temps from 50F to nearly 70F with good results. It takes a bit longer at cooler temps, of course, but makes a good beer regardless. I've never lagered anything with it, as I don't have the capability.

Thanks for this thread. I have 3 jars of washed 2565 in the fridge and I wasn't sure what to do with it, as I have 2 batches of kolsch to drink already. It might be time for my first wheat beer sometime soon.

2565 makes a fantastic IPA, too. You can thank me later for that suggestion.

Thanks for the info. I'm washing the kolsch yeast now...we'll see if I get around to using it. An american wheat might be in my future.

IPA?? I would never have thought that. What did that taste like?

JohnK93 said:

IPA?? I would never have thought that. What did that taste like?

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A pint o' heaven? Yeah, pretty much!

More seriously, it works at a variety of temps, it attenuates reliably, it doesn't mute hop bitterness or flavor one bit, and it adds just a little something extra to make the malt profile more interesting (but never takes center stage). It also carbs up in the bottle very quickly, which means quick turnaround after bottling, which means bigger hop flavors.

I used to just pitch a packet of US-05 when I wanted an IPA, but the 2565 is so good I usually try go through with the extra effort of the liquid yeast. I know everyone loves the Chico strain for American IPAs, but the 2565 Kölsch yeast has it beat in every regard. It's my (now not so) secret weapon. The only drawback is the huge amount of sediment I get in each bottle, but really, that's the only issue. I suppose a crash cooling could fix that, but I don't have the capability.

Well, I'm sure it won't be long before I brew another IPA (fermenting my first BIAB black IPA now), so maybe I'll give your secret weapon a try soon.

John

Let me know if you do. I hope it works out well for you. I've don't about 5-6 of them now, and have yet to be disappointed.

I've used it for a wheat IPA and it was really good. I would agree with GuldTuborg it does great with hops and I prefer it over any of the american strains. I've only used white labs strain but it sounds like I need to try the two from Wyeast!

JohnK93 said:

Hello all,
I recently washed and re-pitched some American Ale II yeast from a quasi-pale ale to a black IPA and damn, did that thing take off! With only 3 gallons in a 6.5 gallon bucket the airlock was bubbling within as few hours.

Click to expand...

aside: if fermentation took off that fast, sounds like you might have over-pitched. it's not a problem in the same way that under-pitching is, but you won't get as many yeast flavors. you want some amount of lag time, as the yeast are growing during that phase and creating flavors. if you pitch a lot of yeast, they won't need to multiply and create those flavors. this isn't a big deal for IPAs since you generally don't want yeast flavors anyways, but could be a concern if you make a belgian, an english, etc. or other styles that depend on yeast contributions.

GuldTuborg said:

The only drawback is the huge amount of sediment I get in each bottle, but really, that's the only issue. I suppose a crash cooling could fix that, but I don't have the capability.

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cold crashing isn't hard: get a big plastic tub or bucket, put your carboy or bucket inside it, cover in ice, add a little water, and replace the ice a few times over 2 or 3 days. having an ice-maker in the freezer is really useful. kolsch yeast is indeed a very low flocculator and takes forever to drop out.

sweetcell said:

cold crashing isn't hard: get a big plastic tub or bucket, put your carboy or bucket inside it, cover in ice, add a little water, and replace the ice a few times over 2 or 3 days. having an ice-maker in the freezer is really useful. kolsch yeast is indeed a very low flocculator and takes forever to drop out.

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Thanks for the tip. I might try that, but it sounds like enough work that I may just deal with the extra sediment in the bottles. It's not that bad, really. Usually a few days in the fridge will compact everything in the bottle pretty well.

Thanks for the info. I made a 1L starter for this batch based on some estimates. MrMalty says I need about 117 million yeasties, but I had wasn't 100% sure how to set the Yeast Concentration slider and I don't really have a way to measure the yeast in mL. So, I figured since I used a 1.5L starter for my last batch, which was a full 5 gallons, and I knew that re-pitched yeast takes off quicker than a fresh vial, I'd be good with 1L for this 3 gallon batch.

But I'm glad you pointed it out because I've settled on re-pitching my kolsch yeast into an american wheat recipe I've found and I want to dial this one to the right pitch rate.

John

I just did an am. wheat with 2565. Not bottled yet but hydro sample tasted awesome! Fermented in basement which has been appx 55 deg ambient.

Cool...what's your fermentation schedule? How many weeks in basement before you'll bottle?

Its been 3 weeks in basement ill probly bottle it whenever I get a chance. Considered moving it upstairs for a few days (warmer) just to give the yeasties a chance to clean up, but judging by the taste I dont think its really necessary.

It'll take a while at 55F, but it will finish up. I would recommend moving it upstairs or not depending upon your available time to bottle. Regardless, a week or so as cold as you can get it prior to bottling would be good, to get as much of the yeast to settle as possible.