Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

terrapinj said:

Bob, what was your hop schedule?

Click to expand...

All pellet hops aside from HopShot
Massive extended hopstand and multi-stage dryhop w/no focus on middle or late boil additions

90 Minute Boil
5.5 Gallons

Wait for full rolling boil, then add:

120 IBUs HopShot @ 90 Minutes
1 oz. Columbus @ direct flameout for 20 minutes
1 oz. Simcoe @ direct flameout for 20 minutes

1-1/2 oz. Columbus @ 45 minute slow-chilling hopstand (from 165-66 F) [latter was also ferm temp]
2 oz. Simcoe @ 45 minute slow-chilling hopstand (from 165-66 F)
1/2 oz. Apollo @ 45 minute slow-chilling hopstand (from 165-66 F)
3/4 oz. Centennial @ 45 minute slow-chilling hopstand (from 165-66 F)

2 oz. Columbus @ 12 day (3-stage) dryhop @ 69 F
2 oz. Simcoe @ 12 day (3-stage) dryhop @ 69 F
1/2 oz. Apollo @ 12 day (3-stage) dryhop @ 69 F
3/4 oz. Centennial @ 12 day (3-stage) dryhop @ 69 F
3/4 oz. Nugget @ 12 day (3-stage) dryhop @ 69 F
3/4 oz. Amarillo @ 12 day (3-stage) dryhop @ 69 F

13.5 oz. total hops, excluding the hop extract. Results were plenty dank and extremely close to the original. I think I cloned the hop character slightly more than I cloned the malt character. For the typical 5 gal homebrewer batch size, you could probably skip the Nugget and divvy the difference up between Centennial & Amarillo.

If I remember, you had Conan, right?

bobbrews said:

I did. But the only new info was Caramalt, so I swapped GNO with TF Caramalt. Ditched the Oat malt for Dextrose. With these changes, I just decided to mash at 151 F for 90 minutes.

1.072-1.012
126 IBUs Tinseth
90 minute boil

86.5% TF Pearl
5.0% Dextrose
5.0% TF Torrified Wheat
3.5% TF Caramalt

Click to expand...

I used basicaly the same grain bill 3 weeks ago, except used flaked wheat(happened to have some).
My hops are

no hopshot,all Columbus 1.5oz at 90 mins 110Ibu

1 oz Simcoe 5mins
1 oz Columbus 5 mins
1 oz Centennial 5 mins

1 oz Simcoe whirlpool
1 oz Amarillo whirlpool
1 oz Columbus whirlpool

2 oz Columbus dryhop
1 oz Simcoe dryhop
1 oz Centennial dryhop

what is a 3-stage dry hop?

pschnei3 said:

what is a 3-stage dry hop?

Click to expand...

Adding the hops at 3 equal times during the dry hop period.

For a 12 day dry hop with 3/4 oz of hops, you would add 1/4 oz first day, 1/4 oz 4th day, 1/4 oz 8th day, bottle or keg 12th day. Each addition was in for 4 days till the next one was added.

theveganbrewer said:

If I remember, you had Conan, right?

Click to expand...

Yes. A member on here traded some HT with me.

For those of you doing a multi stage dryhop.
Are you removing the step one dryhops when you add the step two dryhops? If so, how? Using a bag? Racking to another vessel?

namyarb3 said:

For those of you doing a multi stage dryhop.
Are you removing the step one dryhops when you add the step two dryhops? If so, how? Using a bag? Racking to another vessel?

Click to expand...

Yeah, remove round one before adding round two, etc. Either bagging or racking will work fine, I did the latter. First round in a BB, second in a corny, then pushed the beer to the serving corny under co2 pressure through a randall.

WELLLLLL!!!
I a was going to be going for my 2nd Heady Topper Clone this weekend so i preparred a starter yesterday afternoon, after waking up today i find the flask on the floor with about 90% of the 1L starter now seeking refuge in the carpet...

Thing that really sucks is thats all the Conan i had left!!!
You guys think its worth it to try and step up whats in the flask or it has to be contaminated after sitting on a common way for atleast 3-4 hours if not more??

As a side not, vegan....got anymore samples left??? lol
Damn havent been on this thread for mayb a week and its up another 12 pages. Gotta get to reading!!

Nordeast...your the man. Anytime someone says randall i droll!!

Johnnyhitch1 said:

WELLLLLL!!!
I a was going to be going for my 2nd Heady Topper Clone this weekend so i preparred a starter yesterday afternoon, after waking up today i find the flask on the floor with about 90% of the 1L starter now seeking refuge in the carpet...

Thing that really sucks is thats all the Conan i had left!!!
You guys think its worth it to try and step up whats in the flask or it has to be contaminated after sitting on a common way for atleast 3-4 hours if not more??

As a side not, vegan....got anymore samples left??? lol
Damn havent been on this thread for mayb a week and its up another 12 pages. Gotta get to reading!!

Nordeast...your the man. Anytime someone says randall i droll!!

Click to expand...

Wow. That just sucks, plain and simple.

Just transferred off dryhop into keg. Pulled a hydro sample and the SRM looks about right, and the whole room smells like dank pineapple/citrus. Uncarbed taste is pretty darn close, but just a little thin from being flat. It has the "thickness" of Heady also. All in all, pretty happy with the result.

I don't know how much Amarillo is known to be in it,but I'll probably cut back on it next time. I used an ounce at 5 mins, but might go with 1/2oz.

I made a batch using citra instead of Amarillo since I had it on hand. Wayyyy too fruity since the yeast gives off a ton of fruit notes. I definitely think Columbus is in it though because I added some after I tasted it without it into the keg. Dry hopping with Columbus gives it that dank piney flavor everyone is looking for.

I also just made a batch this weekend as follows:

12 lb Marris otter
1lb Munich
1lb white wheat malt
.5 lb carapils

Mash at 151

1 oz Chinook fwh
6 ml hop shot at 75 min boil
.5 lb turbinado at 15 min boil
1oz Columbus at 10 min
1 oz belma, Columbus, centennial at slow whirlpool for 20 min once temp is down to 180.

Pitch Conan and let it work.

I'm amazed by how much more hop flavor I get when I whirlpool like above and will be doing it all of my IPAs from now on.

dbennett78 said:

I made a batch using citra instead of Amarillo since I had it on hand. Wayyyy too fruity since the yeast gives off a ton of fruit notes. I definitely think Columbus is in it though because I added some after I tasted it without it into the keg. Dry hopping with Columbus gives it that dank piney flavor everyone is looking for.

Click to expand...

Definatly heavy on Columbus and Simcoe. The grapefriut of Centennial is there as well. There must be at least 1 more, but I'm not convinced it's Amarillo. Nugget maybe, a little Cascade or Chinook is possible. Whatever it is, I doubt it should lend anymore fruitiness.

whitehause said:

Definatly heavy on Columbus and Simcoe. The grapefriut of Centennial is there as well. There must be at least 1 more, but I'm not convinced it's Amarillo. Nugget maybe, a little Cascade or Chinook is possible. Whatever it is, I doubt it should lend anymore fruitiness.

Click to expand...

vegan has indicated that amarillo (as well as simcoe and columbus) is confirmed in numerous posts throughout this thread, as john has replied to his emails and confirmed. see post 636

That is correct. I feel pretty good with where a lot of these attempts are coming to a point. We've got BYO and Bob and a couple guys in BA who have used Apollo, then Simcoe, Columbus, Centennial, and a bit of Amarillo seem to be the favorites.

Only thing I've heard hop wise one way or another not covered here is that he said to get rid of the Chinook.

droder1 said:

vegan has indicated that amarillo (as well as simcoe and columbus) is confirmed in numerous posts throughout this thread, as john has replied to his emails and confirmed. see post 636

Click to expand...

Yep...Been following this since about post 4 of the original thread. I'm just giving my impression. I don't doubt there is a little Amarillo in there, I just meant that the other real "aroma" hop (besides Columbus, Simcoe,Centenial) seems to be something else.

Do you get much Amarillo from Heady?

theveganbrewer said:

That is correct. I feel pretty good with where a lot of these attempts are coming to a point. We've got BYO and Bob and a couple guys in BA who have used Apollo, then Simcoe, Columbus, Centennial, and a bit of Amarillo seem to be the favorites.

Only thing I've heard hop wise one way or another not covered here is that he said to get rid of the Chinook.

Click to expand...

I think mine (as others have indicated) is missing that last little bit of dankness above and beyond what Columbus gives. I'm leaning towards some Nugget late or at whirlpool next time.

So my dry-hop of 1oz columbus, .7oz of simcoe, and .3oz of cascade smells fanTASTIC. Will likely bottle tonight.

I took a small sample, and this might be the best IPA I've made - the Conan didn't really seem to do much at first, but combined with the dry-hops it really makes things pop.

Not quite heady-topper smell though, but I'd put it at about 75% there. I think it just needs a little more columbus and a bit of another hop - not a fruity one, something more earthy-ish. Apollo is popular in VT beer I've kind of noticed - perhaps its that? Never used it, nor can I even find it anywhere...

Anyway Columbus, and lots of it, is the key. COLUMBUS. This I am sure of.

farmhousebrewingsupply.com just had apollo a week ago, i ordered a half pound... looks like they're out now. first time using these hops, amazing aroma.

i have a DIPA fermenting away at the moment. brewed on saturday, pitched a healthy amount of conan. it's not really a heady clone, just my take on a big danky DIPA/IIPA. grains were pale malt, a pound of wheat, 12 oz sucrose ("raw sugar"), and 6 oz each of C-40, carapils and acidulated. OG 1.080, bittered with 2 oz of columbus, then added 3 oz mosaic, 2 oz apollo, 2 oz simcoe and 1 oz nelson sauvin split between 5 mins, flameout and 175*F rest. i'll be doing a double dry-hop with some combo of the aforementioned hops, exact order and quantites TBD - but the quantities will be healthy, at least 2.5 oz each.

can't wait to lay this one on MBC drinkers :rockin:

sweetcell said:

farmhousebrewingsupply.com just had apollo a week ago, i ordered a half pound... looks like they're out now. first time using these hops, amazing aroma.

Click to expand...

You should get on the NikoBrew newsletter if you like that hop. They frequently sell pellets for $10 a pound. It's my go to for bittering.

paulster2626 said:

Apollo is popular in VT beer I've kind of noticed - perhaps its that? Never used it, nor can I even find it anywhere...

Click to expand...

looks like NikoBrew has apollo

I live in Canada - so I'm kind of screwed. We do have a guy who supplies local craft breweries though - he's getting his inventory sorted out and we should be doing a massive group buy shortly. Hopefully he's got some going on.

Not sure if this was submitted or not
[ame]http://vimeo.com/64505391[/ame]

Kegged, carbed, and cold......just pulled my first "real" pint (tried some during transfer) and it's pretty darn close.
Fg came in about 1.012, so I figure that's right in the range.

Doesn't have the hop floaties (no hopback), but has the right color and some yeast bits floating in it. Still needs just a little something aroma wise, but not much.


I think I'll throw some Apollo in there as others have mentioned. The Amarillo seems to have mellowed a bit after a week in the keg, so I'll probably keep an ounce at whirlpool. The dankness is pretty good, and there is plenty of bitterness using 1.5oz of Columbus at 90mins since I didn't have any hopshot handy. With a 90 min boil, 1.5oz came out to 110 IBU. The late additions add a negligible amount of IBU's, so I went with that.



The fruityness seems to have dropped off a little, so I would think about a little more Simcoe or Centennial than the 1oz each I used for dryhop.

Looks delicious. Anyone else that uses hop shots know if the alpha acids deteriorate like regular hops? I have asked my LHBS but they aren't sure.

A Heady FAQ Video

http://youtu.be/amgfgU5-lhs

Not too much technical info... States that it can keep for long in a can. Not sure I agree. Its the hop bomb that make it great.

t_met said:

A Heady FAQ Video

http://youtu.be/amgfgU5-lhs

Not too much technical info... States that it can keep for long in a can. Not sure I agree. Its the hop bomb that make it great.

Click to expand...

Good video to get the SRM nail down

I just got this in my inbox from Vermont Pub & Brewery (Greg Noonan's place). They have a special beer on tap each Monday. Here's this weeks.

Imperial Session Pale Ale

STYLE Pale Ale ABV 5.5% YEAST Conan

HOPS 44 IBU’s of Citra and Amarilla
MALT Maris Otter, Pilsener, Crystal 45, Wheat
This “west coast style” turned out as a perfect imperial session should, spot on. It has a light amber, or honeycomb color. The Aroma is floral and smells of citrus and tropical fruits, characteristics that are also found in it’s flavor. A Light body and soft mouthfeel make this beer highly drinkable.


I wonder if they have some yeast they'd be willing to give.

Looking at that video and you can see how much darker it gets as it ages. That fresh can looks like it's ~6SRM or below, like I originally thought. The other looks like it might be an 8.

t_met said:

I just got this in my inbox from Vermont Pub & Brewery (Greg Noonan's place). They have a special beer on tap each Monday. Here's this weeks.

Imperial Session Pale Ale

STYLE Pale Ale ABV 5.5% YEAST Conan

HOPS 44 IBU’s of Citra and Amarilla
MALT Maris Otter, Pilsener, Crystal 45, Wheat
This “west coast style” turned out as a perfect imperial session should, spot on. It has a light amber, or honeycomb color. The Aroma is floral and smells of citrus and tropical fruits, characteristics that are also found in it’s flavor. A Light body and soft mouthfeel make this beer highly drinkable.


I wonder if they have some yeast they'd be willing to give.

Click to expand...

I would be interested what their strain of Conan is up to. If they kept them separate since birth, they could be completely different yeasts by now. If they haven't, and I suspect they haven't, it could be a good place to get it in bulk. John gets his Conan fresh ever 10 generations from somewhere outside his brewery, the VB&B could be where it's coming from.

t_met said:

A Heady FAQ Video

http://youtu.be/amgfgU5-lhs

Not too much technical info... States that it can keep for long in a can. Not sure I agree. Its the hop bomb that make it great.

Click to expand...

His bit about drinking from the can doesn't oxidize it as fast as pouring in a glass is about 85% BS.

Hops don't oxidize that fast, and atmospheric air replaces the co2 in the can almost immediately after you take the first sip. The can doesn't implode as you drink it, therefore, air fills up the can. Now skunking is a whole other topic, but anyway....

Oy vey. I hate half-hearted science.

What SRM is Kern River Citra DIPA?

I have that on tap, and used Pearl Malt as the base in it, used Conan, and I poured a Heady last night and it's the SAME COLOR and CLARITY as the Heady.

Funny just found this page after wanting to brew a clone of the stone/alchemist/nikasi more brown than black BIPA
The recipe calls for 2gms of super galena extract hop oil....

Could this be the hop were missing?
When i used it in a SMASH a year ago it had tons of pineapple. Just remembering it now.
Just had to write that down...going to search some more.

scottland said:

His bit about drinking from the can doesn't oxidize it as fast as pouring in a glass is about 85% BS.

Hops don't oxidize that fast, and atmospheric air replaces the co2 in the can almost immediately after you take the first sip. The can doesn't implode as you drink it, therefore, air fills up the can. Now skunking is a whole other topic, but anyway....

Oy vey. I hate half-hearted science.

Click to expand...

Yes I found that stupid as well. Besides, when you pour it in a glass aren't all those little bubbles popping on the top just CO2 as well? It's the exact same thing - but negligible either way.

Tonight I'm filling my hyperbaric chamber with CO2 and drinking heady inside to see if I can notice a taste difference.

FATC1TY said:

What SRM is Kern River Citra DIPA?

I have that on tap, and used Pearl Malt as the base in it, used Conan, and I poured a Heady last night and it's the SAME COLOR and CLARITY as the Heady.

Click to expand...

I have it at 6.2 in my clone, which I took thought looked an awful lot like Heady.

My thoughts on the video. John must smoke some really good herb.

paulster2626 said:

Yes I found that stupid as well. Besides, when you pour it in a glass aren't all those little bubbles popping on the top just CO2 as well? It's the exact same thing - but negligible either way.

Tonight I'm filling my hyperbaric chamber with CO2 and drinking heady inside to see if I can notice a taste difference.

Click to expand...

Test results are in. No difference. Kimmich tells lies.

paulster2626 said:

Test results are in. No difference. Kimmich tells lies.

Click to expand...

lol

Brewing up my next attempt today. I still have no idea what I'm going to do with the hops, messing around with ratios now. I think will try to even out the Simcoe a bit, instead of having it so lopsided, mostly because I need to save that hop for later in the year. I'm going to try Apollo and maybe mess around with another hop like Galena to make it 6. I will go and get turbinado so we have a test on that too.

Bob, when you say you were close on the hop aroma, how close? And what was off that you could directly attribute to the hops?

The one thing I did find interesting in the video was that Kimmich talks about how much Heady changes over different periods of time. ( fresh, 10 weeks, 10 months)

Since he seems to think Heady is best 10 weeks from (brewing or canning,couldn't tell for sure) I guess we really need to compare our aroma results with a can af Heady that's the same age.

Great...now I need a can of Heady that's exactly 43 days old