A few Qs about beginning Cider.

Hi,
I am trying to break into the wonderful world of homebrewing and winemaking. I decided to try a few small batches of cider (or maybe it'll be more like apple wine?) in purified water jugs before spending money on good equipment. I used frozen apple juice concentrate from Walmart (only added ingredient is ascorbic acid) along with Fleischmann's Active Dry Yeast, and of course the water that was already in the jugs. I dumped a little of the water to create some headspace. I used balloons with a couple holes poked for makeshift airlocks. (I know, airlocks are cheap... Soon to come.) I know it may not be the best yeast and juice, but just trying it out. I am curious on everyone's thoughts on whether I will end up with something that is somewhat drinkable. I don't expect outstanding results considering my ingredients. If I end up with a bearable beverage, then I want to buy "real" equipment. Also, would letting it ferment for 3 or 4 weeks be enough? I figured I could siphon it over to new clean jugs for clearing if I need to, although I am not necessarily looking for a super clear drink on this first attempt. I also made a jug of mead the same way, adding 2 lbs of honey to the water, along with the yeast and some grapes. Thanks for any input!

If you are using that kind of airlock I wouldn't transfer to secondary because of oxidation risk. Just bottle it after fermentation. With a little luck it'll taste just fine. 3-4 weeks fermenting should be plenty. With 'real' equipment your results will be more predictable and controllable which might produce better cider. I say might because it still depends on what you do with the equipment

Thanks Jimmy.
That's the kind of answer I was hoping for. Lol. I have a lot to learn and hopefully in a few weeks I can start making 5 gallon batches. Can't wait!

I see nothing wrong with using concentrate. Bread yeast, though, I can't imagine tasting good.

Next time, grab a packet of EC-1118 if you want cheap and easy. Bread yeast won't really save much money. A 5g packet is $3.50, or 30g sack is $6.50, at least at my LHBS. 1g will easily make 1 gallon.

As long as you keep an open mind using bread yeast...then you are fine. Just know that if you like the end product, I guarantee it will be better with brewers yeast. Give it a taste in 2 weeks...it might be good. I don't know if I'd let bread yeast ferment completely dry.

You didn't say how much you made, but my recommendation would be to just transfer it to another water jug and pop it in the fridge. If it's only a gallon then you can drink it up in a couple of days. No need to bottle, drink it still and plan accordingly for future batches.

You could always invite a neighbor over, dump it into a bucket and dip your tankards till it's gone.

Thanks guys! I know, bread yeast isn't the best. I just wanted to get some fermentation going right away to try. I will be ordering a starter equipment kit and some suitable yeast soon. Been wanting to do this for years. Was always afraid I would do it wrong, but my batches (each jug is a little under a gallon) are bubbling away like crazy. They smell good too. The Mead has been going for 8 days, and the cider/applewine (whatever it turns out to be, guess it depends on the yeast) I just started last night. I added grapes and a little honey to one batch of the apple juice, and it is bubbling way more than the plain batch. The concentrate is so cheap, I figured I might as well play around with it. I am just not sure how long it takes before things will be drinkable. By drinkable, I mean, I can drink it without gagging from the bad taste. I understand both mead and apple wines typically benefit from aging, but as I mentioned before, I don't expect anything too outstanding from the ingredients I used, regardless of how long I let it age. Plus I am not sure I should age it in plastic water jugs with balloons on top. Lol. Is it "safe" at any point during the fermentation process? If so, then I suppose I could just taste after a couple weeks and see if I like it enough.

Everyone that has answered has giving you some awesome advice.... Probably no need for secondary due to the fact your type of airlock might not be a perfect seal, But for a first shot it should be fine. The bread yeast is going to give you very funny tastes.... I've compared Champagne yeast, wine yeast, Ale yeast and bread yeast and the brewing yeast gives much better flavors (But I know you know that, just stating for knowledge sake)....

You're on the right track and the brewing buzz is going to catch hold of you and you're going to be brewing like crazy

For your next batches I recommend you trying lalvin EC1118 champagne yeast and I also suggest you try soom English or American ale yeast.
Good luck and have fun.

Sounds like you are doing your reading and research. That is really the only think that matters.

It would be worth it to get some basic equipment and this can be had inexpensively if you are smart about it.

Just keep in mind though, you will get addicted and keep spending money on more equipment, download the homebrewtalk app for your phone and be on it every chance you get, and soon have more brewing related stuff than you can find room for.

It's totally worth it....

There is absolutely no reason why you can't get a decent cider from your procedure, although, you need to look to fresh cider come season. Bread yeast will work fine once you learn proper crash for the yeast and perhaps jack. Until you learn, or in lieu of, US-05 is bullet proof. For cider stay away from wine yeast, IMHO. Then again, I'm new at it with only 45 years practice.

Thank you to all of you. You guys have provided great advice. I will definitely plan on using EC-1118 yeast since a couple of you recommended it specifically. And will try US-05. I'm sure I'll find out which I prefer. I know yeast is fairly cheap, I just didn't want to wait to get started. I want to try it all: Beer, Wine, Mead, Cider, everything (except distilling bc it is explosive...and illegal lol). I added a whole orange sliced up (peel and all) to my mead just a few minutes ago. At that time I also tasted the mead. It tasted more alcoholic than I expected, actually. And very carbonated, even though it has a balloon with 3 holes poked in it. Interesting, and it doesn't taste bad, but should it be so alcoholic and carbonated after only 8 days? I left the cider/applewine alone as I only started it last night, but both batches are bubbling lots and smell damn good!

Massey said:

Is it "safe" at any point during the fermentation process? If so, then I suppose I could just taste after a couple weeks and see if I like it enough.

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Perfectly safe as long as it's fermenting. (or finished fermenting) Alcohol will keep most critters at bay. If it grew mold on top, I'd probably toss it, but otherwise...drink up!

There is some funk building up inside the containers at the top, but I am sure that is just from the yeast. Nothing that looks moldy to me. Can mold grow on that stuff if I leave it there?

Sounds like krausen, which is perfectly normal. Leave it sealed, leave it alone, as long as you can possibly stand. Then leave it two weeks longer.

Thanks, Thadius, and thanks to all of you. I really did not expect so many people to give me feedback on this. Awesome forum, and I think I am here to stay. I want to make more mead and cider already, and I haven't even finished a batch yet!

thadius856 said:

Leave it sealed, leave it alone, as long as you can possibly stand. Then leave it two weeks longer.

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best advice in the whole thread

Just picked up a tester "kit" for doing som experimenting... if your jot wanting to drop much coin before getting some more batches under your belt...
2 gal glass jugs $5.35/ea
2 #6 holed stoppers $1/ea
2 3 piece air locks $2.65/ea

I have a hydrometer from my beer stuff and only need to pick up a mini siphon as my beer setup is better bottles with ports so dont have any siphon... so im looking at about $25-$30 for a "starter" kit that will be very controlable... good luck in your venture and have some fun with it... its been a very rewarding hobby for me over the past year...

I started with this exact same method in college (ballon airlock and bread yeast too)! I did however add almost 2 pounds of sugar to my one gallon of cider and it tasted like jet fuel. It was sweet upfront but had an extremely powerful alcohol kick that almost made it undrinkable... I forgot about it and found it the next year when I was cleaning out my room for graduation. It was some of the best stuff ever and it all cost about $5 for the gallon. Unfortunately I wasn't the only one that liked it and during my cleaning process apparently one of my roommates (i had 10 roommates) stole the rest of it. Sad day!

I too am glad to see that you are reading and doing your homework. That alone will improve your cider and brewing guaranteed! I suggest continuing to do small batches until you really find your style of what you like and prefer.

For future batches I too suggest you try some ale yeasts such as Nottingham, us-05, so4. Also try brewing at lower temperatures and stopping the fermentation before it ferments dry. This will help you retain your apple flavors and make for a much preferable brew. Cheers!