I just started drinking a Classic Pilsner that has a nice frothy head, but it dissipates rather quickly. Is that characteristic of the style, or can the mash or recipe be adjusted to improve head retention?
Longer lasting head on Pilsner?
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tgmartin000
Well-Known Member
A bit of carapils should be ok in that style.
OP
OP
Thanks. I keep seeing carapils in recipes but have never used it. I'll try that next time. How much carapils would you add, 5 - 10%?
tgmartin000
Well-Known Member
No more than 5%. Usually for a 5 gal batch 0.5 lbs is good.
I noticed that I got better head retention when I started doing the classical conditioning/lagering program (no diacetyl rest, gradual decrease in temperature to near freezing over about a month followed by immediate transfer with yeast to lagering vessel). I later stumbled across confirmation in some brewing text (don't embarrass me by asking me which one) that this method does produce indeed produce better head and head retention.
I put 0.5 lbs of wheat in most of my beers. That plus I still do a protein rest when I use pilsner malt. Most of my beers have head like whipped cream.
TopherM
Well-Known Member
Head retention is a direct result of the residual proteins in the beer. Basically, the CO2 need nucleation sites (something for the bubbles to cling to) in order to create and maintain the foamy head. Like everyone else said, 5% of wheat or carapils will always provide those proteins that improve head retention.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Just so I am clear: I do all those things too. The classical lagering program improved head still further.
Another point, particularly for lagers, if one leaves the beer on the whole yeast cake for too long, the yeast do release proteases that break down head forming proteins.
I can't recall exactly where I read that or the exact time frame (it might have been greater than 30 days). I know is was stated by Charlie Bamforth, I think in some review article.
OK, not sure if this is the same article, but the information is similar. High ABV is bad, and so is stressing yeast. Both of these conditions lead to the release of proteinase A from the yeast which degrades foam positive proteins.
Proteins influencing foam formation in wine and beer: the role of yeast
I should also add, that the head of my lagers do improve and seem best around after 6-8 weeks of lagering
I can't recall exactly where I read that or the exact time frame (it might have been greater than 30 days). I know is was stated by Charlie Bamforth, I think in some review article.
OK, not sure if this is the same article, but the information is similar. High ABV is bad, and so is stressing yeast. Both of these conditions lead to the release of proteinase A from the yeast which degrades foam positive proteins.
Proteins influencing foam formation in wine and beer: the role of yeast
I should also add, that the head of my lagers do improve and seem best around after 6-8 weeks of lagering
I haven't noticed this but then I haven't been looking for it. I brew large quantities of beer so that I don't have to brew too often. I'll typically have a batch available for a year and sometimes more. Seems to me the head is good to the end but I have never tried to measure or quantify this in any way.
Dr. Foam.
I think the reason I am getting away with this is that the yeast are not stressed. I can tell when they are getting to end life because the diacetyl starts to creep back up. Perhaps foam quality is actually degrading at that time and I'll try to remember to look for it.
Another point is that this beer is not sitting on the entire cake - only the stuff in suspension at time of transfer to the kegs. These are, I believe, key to my ability to keep beer fresh for this long.
I agree. I think a little bit of yeast helps. Too much though can be detrimental.
mjohnson
Well-Known Member
What about protein rests? Does that help?
tgmartin000
Well-Known Member
From what I've read, a protein rest breaks down the proteins than help head retention, which will actually hurt head retention.
A short one can help, particularly with pilsner malt, in my experience.
I do one "shorter, hotter". What I mean is that I'll do a very short protein rest (15 minutes) at 131-133 degrees F instead of a traditional longer one at 122F.
I do use a tiny bit of carapils in my BoPils, and it's got a wonderful head.
I normally only do a primary for my pilsners for a relatively short primary- usually about 10-14 days depending on my schedule and the beer is racked at that time if there is no diacetyl present. Then lagering is begun, and I tend to do a lengthy lagering period at a cold (34 degrees) temperature.
I do a 20 min. rest at 122 (timer starts when I start adding the grain). this is for pilsner malt containing recipes (pretty much all my beers these days)
It is a bit of a tight rope walk. There are more head promoting proteins that can be generated via a protein rest, but if you go too long, then they get broken down too small to do the job. That is why many opt for the 133 F as a different set of proteases are active which aren't so aggressive in breaking down foam positive proteins.
I think the p-rest is particularly helpful when you have high protein ingredients like wheat malt or flaked barley.
It is a bit of a tight rope walk. There are more head promoting proteins that can be generated via a protein rest, but if you go too long, then they get broken down too small to do the job. That is why many opt for the 133 F as a different set of proteases are active which aren't so aggressive in breaking down foam positive proteins.
I think the p-rest is particularly helpful when you have high protein ingredients like wheat malt or flaked barley.
The theory is, as noted by others, that if you spend too much time in the protein rest there will be too much degradation and that the medium molecular weight proteins required for good head will be destroyed. The answer to this objection is to accept that the commonly held notion that protein rests are useless in a modern, well modified malt and skip the protein rest or at least make it as short as possible.
I do a protein rest as part of a decoction mashing program. I pull the second decoction pretty quickly but even so the rest mash is at the protein rest temperature for the duration of the decoction (about an hour). I have not seen degraded head - quite the contrary. A possible explanation might be that the proteins are, indeed, as degraded as they are going to get in the maltings but that explanation just doesn't feel right to me.
I do a protein rest as part of a decoction mashing program. I pull the second decoction pretty quickly but even so the rest mash is at the protein rest temperature for the duration of the decoction (about an hour). I have not seen degraded head - quite the contrary. A possible explanation might be that the proteins are, indeed, as degraded as they are going to get in the maltings but that explanation just doesn't feel right to me.
I should also add that I think a protein rest improves conversion efficiency/speed. The endosperm is a matrix of proteins and carbohydrates. The goal of the mash is to breakdown this matrix so the amylases have access to all of the carbs. If you do a better job of breaking down the protein part of the matrix, that makes the carbs. more available for conversion.
I'll also add, that with improved head, there is typically improved body. The OP has obviously heard that protein rests result in thin beers, which to me really highlights the obvious importance of proteins in the body of a beer. However, most folks either ignore this (except to blindly say p-rest = bad) or simply don't want to mess with mashing to deal with proteins, and just the focus on the carbs.
I'll also add, that with improved head, there is typically improved body. The OP has obviously heard that protein rests result in thin beers, which to me really highlights the obvious importance of proteins in the body of a beer. However, most folks either ignore this (except to blindly say p-rest = bad) or simply don't want to mess with mashing to deal with proteins, and just the focus on the carbs.
OP
OP
Wow! I thought I was asking a simple question. Thank you guys for all the insight on head retention and protein rests. Your input is very enlightening and encouraging. Protein rests are something I hadn't done but had wanted to try. With my last brew, which is a Bavarian Wheat, I did a protein rest at 122F for 30 minutes. That may be too long at that temp, but I guess I'll find out the results when my Bavarian Wheat is ready to drink.
