DFH 120 IPA clone
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great googley moogley that is a lot of 120 
you don't want to know how much that cost either. :/ but my wife is awesome and knew i had been looking for some 120 all over here and could never find it so she bought it for me in virginia (where we're both from). i certainly won't be drinking it quickly though. i plan on aging it for a loooong time.
but thought i'd jump on tonight and post my recipe. would appreciate any thoughts on the matter. it's kind of an experiment more than a recipe and i don't claim it as my own. i've used bits and pieces from other recipes i've seen on here and scaled it down for a 2.5 gal batch. the ingredients are a lot of money, so i wanted to try it on a small scale first and if it doesn't turn into cough syrup, i'll try it again on a larger scale and bottle it for some long term storage. anyways....
Ingredients:
-1 cups DME (yeast starter)
-1 tsp yeast nutrient (yeast starter)
-9lbs 2-row
-1 lb of Amber
-3oz Amarillo hops (in boil)
-2oz Simcoe hops (in boil)
-1oz Warrior hops (in boil)
-WLP007 (until the gravity drops under 1.020, then… )
-WLP099 Super High Gravity
-5lbs dextrose (80oz; there are 16oz per pound)
-1oz Simcoe (dry hop in secondary)
-1oz Amarillo (dry hop in secondary)
-40 dixie cups
-plastic bags (for dextrose)
-oxygen tank
-stainless steel scrubby
NOTE: dextrose is 37 PPG (points of gravity per pound per gallon)
So each pound of dextrose that I add to my 2.5 gallon batch will add just under .015 (14.8 gravity points exactly). Therefore each 3oz packet adds just under .003 (2.775 gravity points exactly).
Stats:
-Batch Size: 2.5 gallons
-OG (pre-sugar): 1.100
-OG (post-sugar): 1.174
-FG: 1.015-1.020
-est ABV: 19.9-20.5%
WLP007 Yeast Starter:
Day -2:
1. Make the WLP007 1L starter (1L water, 1 cup DME, ½ tsp yeast nutrient)
Day 0, Brew Day:
1. Mix 3oz Amarillo, 2oz simcoe, and 1oz warrior hops and then separate evenly into 40 dixie cups.
2. Use the following mash schedule:
a. Add 4 gallons at 160F (a thinner mash will allow the wort to attenuate the most)
b. Mash for 1 hour
c. Target a 150F mash but looking to be lower on temp for the wort to attenuate the most
3. Lauter using 170F water to “mash out”
4. Get approximately 6 gallons of preboil wort
5. Boil 120 minutes adding 1 dixie cup worth of hops every 3 minutes starting with the first boil
6. Looking to end with about 3.25-3.5 gallons
7. Cool using plate chiller (send through funnel with filter before going into chiller)
8. Oxygenate the wort (1 minute at a simmer)
9. Use 1L of wort (pre yeast pitching) to make the WLP099 yeast starter (also ½ tsp yeast nutrient)
10. Pitch the WLP007 yeast starter
11. Ferment the large batch at 65F
but thought i'd jump on tonight and post my recipe. would appreciate any thoughts on the matter. it's kind of an experiment more than a recipe and i don't claim it as my own. i've used bits and pieces from other recipes i've seen on here and scaled it down for a 2.5 gal batch. the ingredients are a lot of money, so i wanted to try it on a small scale first and if it doesn't turn into cough syrup, i'll try it again on a larger scale and bottle it for some long term storage. anyways....
Ingredients:
-1 cups DME (yeast starter)
-1 tsp yeast nutrient (yeast starter)
-9lbs 2-row
-1 lb of Amber
-3oz Amarillo hops (in boil)
-2oz Simcoe hops (in boil)
-1oz Warrior hops (in boil)
-WLP007 (until the gravity drops under 1.020, then… )
-WLP099 Super High Gravity
-5lbs dextrose (80oz; there are 16oz per pound)
-1oz Simcoe (dry hop in secondary)
-1oz Amarillo (dry hop in secondary)
-40 dixie cups
-plastic bags (for dextrose)
-oxygen tank
-stainless steel scrubby
NOTE: dextrose is 37 PPG (points of gravity per pound per gallon)
So each pound of dextrose that I add to my 2.5 gallon batch will add just under .015 (14.8 gravity points exactly). Therefore each 3oz packet adds just under .003 (2.775 gravity points exactly).
Stats:
-Batch Size: 2.5 gallons
-OG (pre-sugar): 1.100
-OG (post-sugar): 1.174
-FG: 1.015-1.020
-est ABV: 19.9-20.5%
WLP007 Yeast Starter:
Day -2:
1. Make the WLP007 1L starter (1L water, 1 cup DME, ½ tsp yeast nutrient)
Day 0, Brew Day:
1. Mix 3oz Amarillo, 2oz simcoe, and 1oz warrior hops and then separate evenly into 40 dixie cups.
2. Use the following mash schedule:
a. Add 4 gallons at 160F (a thinner mash will allow the wort to attenuate the most)
b. Mash for 1 hour
c. Target a 150F mash but looking to be lower on temp for the wort to attenuate the most
3. Lauter using 170F water to “mash out”
4. Get approximately 6 gallons of preboil wort
5. Boil 120 minutes adding 1 dixie cup worth of hops every 3 minutes starting with the first boil
6. Looking to end with about 3.25-3.5 gallons
7. Cool using plate chiller (send through funnel with filter before going into chiller)
8. Oxygenate the wort (1 minute at a simmer)
9. Use 1L of wort (pre yeast pitching) to make the WLP099 yeast starter (also ½ tsp yeast nutrient)
10. Pitch the WLP007 yeast starter
11. Ferment the large batch at 65F
jaydog2314
Well-Known Member
I would love to see pictures of the brewing process, keep us updated!
first i gotta say thanks to my wife who made this brew day possible. a lot of my equipment came as a gift from her and she helped (a lot) in the actual brew day since my back is hurt. jaydogg...i feel your pain. i won't be brewing for a while after this either cause i'll be getting back surgery.
i couldn't figure out how to post pics inbetween my typing, so i'll just post all hte pics at the bottom.
BLUF: everything went ok except that i didn't get as much boil-off as i anticipated. i used a very precise form of measurement called a wag to determine that i would have 3 gallons of boil off after a 2 hr boil, but i only boiled off 1 gallon. more on this later.
overall, the 2.5 gallon DFH 120 clone brew day wasn't that much different than a normal 5 gallon brew day. for a 120 clone, the proportions were the same as a normal 5 gallon brew. i had 10 pounds of grain and 6oz of pellet hops. the main difference was that i planned on boiling for 2 hrs and only coming away with 3.5 gallons of wort. this was supposed to bring me somewhere around 1.100 for an O.G. (prior to adding any sugar which would eventually bring up my O.G. (adjusted) to 1.174)
so the first picture is the giant bowl of hops. i took all 6oz of hops and gently mixed them in a bowl. one day we'll invent smell-o-vision and it will be totally worth it, because my kitchen smelled amazing all day. then i measured them into 4.25 gram amounts to make 40 boil additions (once every 3 minutes).
(SKIP THIS IF YOU DON'T CARE FOR THE MATH: there are approx 28.35 grams in every ounce. so my 6 ozs of hops was equal to approx 170 grams. divide that by 40 gives you 4.25 grams of hops. 120 minutes divided by 3 minutes is 40, so that's how i got 40 hop additions....it's as close as i could come to "continuous hopping". i had a long philosophical discussion about this with my wife in which she asked me if it really mattered whether the last 2 hop additions went in together or whether i HAD to put them in separated by exactly 3 minutes. the answer is yes. they have to be separated. i'm a lover of math and so i explained it to her with a calculus example. you COULD estimate the area under a curve by putting 2 medium sized boxes underneath and calling it good (aroma box and bittering box). but the smaller you make those boxes, the closer your estimate is to the ACTUAL area under the curve, or the closer you are to ACTUAL continuous hopping. ....that may have gone way off base from this post...)
so you can see the picture of my scale reading 4 grams. unfortunately my scale doesn't do tenths or hundredths of grams, so i did the best i could. the third pic shows you what 40 hop additions looks like.
the next pic is the mash paddle i made. i've used it only one other time and i have to be honest that it is really more for show for me than anything else. it takes a lot longer to clean properly than a stainless spoon and it's actually harder to use in the mash than the spoon. however, i took a long time to make the spoon and i think it looks cool, so i used it.
i recently read john palmer's "how to brew" and so i've started to be a little better at my mash calculations. there is, however, a loooong ways to go to improve upon this. on that note, if you see a reason for me changing the way i did my calculations, please comment. i am open to all critiques. i decided i wanted a lower temp and a more watery mash to create a more atennuatable beer. check spelling. lol. i mashed in with 4 gallons of 170F water (or a quarts of water to pounds of grain ratio of 1.6:1). looking back, i'll have to double check my reasoning on the ratio. maybe i would have wanted to do something like 2:1 on quarts of water to pounds of grain. any thoughts? after mixign the mash, my temp came in right at 150F which is what i was aiming for. again this was all based off jon palmer's "how to brew".
the last picture there shows the inside of my boil kettle as i was adding the first runnings.
*****i'll break the posts up into a couple different ones to make this easier.
i couldn't figure out how to post pics inbetween my typing, so i'll just post all hte pics at the bottom.
BLUF: everything went ok except that i didn't get as much boil-off as i anticipated. i used a very precise form of measurement called a wag to determine that i would have 3 gallons of boil off after a 2 hr boil, but i only boiled off 1 gallon. more on this later.
overall, the 2.5 gallon DFH 120 clone brew day wasn't that much different than a normal 5 gallon brew day. for a 120 clone, the proportions were the same as a normal 5 gallon brew. i had 10 pounds of grain and 6oz of pellet hops. the main difference was that i planned on boiling for 2 hrs and only coming away with 3.5 gallons of wort. this was supposed to bring me somewhere around 1.100 for an O.G. (prior to adding any sugar which would eventually bring up my O.G. (adjusted) to 1.174)
so the first picture is the giant bowl of hops. i took all 6oz of hops and gently mixed them in a bowl. one day we'll invent smell-o-vision and it will be totally worth it, because my kitchen smelled amazing all day. then i measured them into 4.25 gram amounts to make 40 boil additions (once every 3 minutes).
(SKIP THIS IF YOU DON'T CARE FOR THE MATH: there are approx 28.35 grams in every ounce. so my 6 ozs of hops was equal to approx 170 grams. divide that by 40 gives you 4.25 grams of hops. 120 minutes divided by 3 minutes is 40, so that's how i got 40 hop additions....it's as close as i could come to "continuous hopping". i had a long philosophical discussion about this with my wife in which she asked me if it really mattered whether the last 2 hop additions went in together or whether i HAD to put them in separated by exactly 3 minutes. the answer is yes. they have to be separated. i'm a lover of math and so i explained it to her with a calculus example. you COULD estimate the area under a curve by putting 2 medium sized boxes underneath and calling it good (aroma box and bittering box). but the smaller you make those boxes, the closer your estimate is to the ACTUAL area under the curve, or the closer you are to ACTUAL continuous hopping. ....that may have gone way off base from this post...)
so you can see the picture of my scale reading 4 grams. unfortunately my scale doesn't do tenths or hundredths of grams, so i did the best i could. the third pic shows you what 40 hop additions looks like.
the next pic is the mash paddle i made. i've used it only one other time and i have to be honest that it is really more for show for me than anything else. it takes a lot longer to clean properly than a stainless spoon and it's actually harder to use in the mash than the spoon. however, i took a long time to make the spoon and i think it looks cool, so i used it.
i recently read john palmer's "how to brew" and so i've started to be a little better at my mash calculations. there is, however, a loooong ways to go to improve upon this. on that note, if you see a reason for me changing the way i did my calculations, please comment. i am open to all critiques. i decided i wanted a lower temp and a more watery mash to create a more atennuatable beer. check spelling. lol. i mashed in with 4 gallons of 170F water (or a quarts of water to pounds of grain ratio of 1.6:1). looking back, i'll have to double check my reasoning on the ratio. maybe i would have wanted to do something like 2:1 on quarts of water to pounds of grain. any thoughts? after mixign the mash, my temp came in right at 150F which is what i was aiming for. again this was all based off jon palmer's "how to brew".
the last picture there shows the inside of my boil kettle as i was adding the first runnings.
*****i'll break the posts up into a couple different ones to make this easier.
the first pic in this post is my current brewing set-up. i've recently started building a brew stand from super strut and it's been awesome. i still have a lot more to add, but for the time being, it gives me a great worksurface. in the bottom right corner you can barely see my floor burner where i boil everything. eventually it will all be done on my stand. i jsut have to finish the gas plumbing and create a switch for my march pump. i digress...
when it came time to chill the beer, things got a little dicey. this is where, depsite my constant chanting of it, charlie p's mantra of "relax, don't worry, have a homebrew" went way out the door. i totally had a homebrew (vanilla porter), but i did not relax. it was very much chaotic.
i put in some irish moss with 15 minutes left in the boil but i didn't get the proteins to settle out very well. i think here is where i need to rethink my set-up a little. right now, i use my march pump to pump ice water from my HLT thru the plate chiller. i let gravity drain the boil kettle through the plate chiller and into the fermenter (the first picture). unfortunately, i didn't get a very good picture of this, but you can kind of see it. i set it up this way thinking that i didn't want to have to clean out the protein/hops mess from my pump. additionally this would be the last use of the pump for the brew day and so running water through it for cooling was a way to start the cleaning of it. well with teh gravity set-up for the wort, it kind of clogged up here and there. not entirely and it was never a show-stopper but it was a PITA. i need to find a better way to drop the solids out of the boil BEFORE i gravity feed through the plate chiller. comments are DEFINITELY welcome on this part. one nice thing about my boil was that i put all my hops in muslin bags. i burned my fingers a bunch, but it was well worth it to have the hops separated in the boil than just dumping it in the kettle. i've seen other posts on 120 clones where the boil kettle looks disgustingly green from all the hops and so i mostly avoided that issue here. the pic of my boil kettle with the muslin bag hanging over the side shows how i tied a string to keep the height of hte bag over the the level of the wort but allowed the bottom to hang IN the wort. one of those stainless steel hop filters probably would have been even easier here.
so the problem with my brew day came from not enough evaporation. i've used my current set-up a few times before under a 1 hr boil and so i felt confident that i would have slightly less than 2x the amount of evaporation on a 2 hr boil. i don't htink i had my propane set up correctly cause i def did not evap even 1x as much as i did before. this caused me to have over 4 gallons of wort at the end and with a much lower pre-sugar O.G.: 1.056. i was expecting 1.100 and so this will def have consequences for me down the road. i will prob not hit my expected 20% abv. that's not horrible since this is supposed to be prep for the real 5-10 gallon brew sometime in the future, but stinks cause i still wanted this to go better than it did. i may just add more sugar as time goes to make up for this.
anyways, i'm getting tired of typing so i'll wait a few days and then update you all on how the sugar additions go...
when it came time to chill the beer, things got a little dicey. this is where, depsite my constant chanting of it, charlie p's mantra of "relax, don't worry, have a homebrew" went way out the door. i totally had a homebrew (vanilla porter), but i did not relax. it was very much chaotic.
i put in some irish moss with 15 minutes left in the boil but i didn't get the proteins to settle out very well. i think here is where i need to rethink my set-up a little. right now, i use my march pump to pump ice water from my HLT thru the plate chiller. i let gravity drain the boil kettle through the plate chiller and into the fermenter (the first picture). unfortunately, i didn't get a very good picture of this, but you can kind of see it. i set it up this way thinking that i didn't want to have to clean out the protein/hops mess from my pump. additionally this would be the last use of the pump for the brew day and so running water through it for cooling was a way to start the cleaning of it. well with teh gravity set-up for the wort, it kind of clogged up here and there. not entirely and it was never a show-stopper but it was a PITA. i need to find a better way to drop the solids out of the boil BEFORE i gravity feed through the plate chiller. comments are DEFINITELY welcome on this part. one nice thing about my boil was that i put all my hops in muslin bags. i burned my fingers a bunch, but it was well worth it to have the hops separated in the boil than just dumping it in the kettle. i've seen other posts on 120 clones where the boil kettle looks disgustingly green from all the hops and so i mostly avoided that issue here. the pic of my boil kettle with the muslin bag hanging over the side shows how i tied a string to keep the height of hte bag over the the level of the wort but allowed the bottom to hang IN the wort. one of those stainless steel hop filters probably would have been even easier here.
so the problem with my brew day came from not enough evaporation. i've used my current set-up a few times before under a 1 hr boil and so i felt confident that i would have slightly less than 2x the amount of evaporation on a 2 hr boil. i don't htink i had my propane set up correctly cause i def did not evap even 1x as much as i did before. this caused me to have over 4 gallons of wort at the end and with a much lower pre-sugar O.G.: 1.056. i was expecting 1.100 and so this will def have consequences for me down the road. i will prob not hit my expected 20% abv. that's not horrible since this is supposed to be prep for the real 5-10 gallon brew sometime in the future, but stinks cause i still wanted this to go better than it did. i may just add more sugar as time goes to make up for this.
anyways, i'm getting tired of typing so i'll wait a few days and then update you all on how the sugar additions go...
tyzippers
Well-Known Member
This is quite the undertaking! I think it's great that you are attempting this!
I saw this recipe (or at least a variation) online and I think I also heard Jamil talk about it on a podcast on The Brewing Network. I've really wanted to try this just to say I did! I'd like to see how yours turns out and get some feedback on what you might do different.
On another note, I've heard that is is pretty important to oxygenate the wort well because of the high OG. What did you do to oxygenate the wort? Do you have an O2 stone?
I saw this recipe (or at least a variation) online and I think I also heard Jamil talk about it on a podcast on The Brewing Network. I've really wanted to try this just to say I did! I'd like to see how yours turns out and get some feedback on what you might do different.
On another note, I've heard that is is pretty important to oxygenate the wort well because of the high OG. What did you do to oxygenate the wort? Do you have an O2 stone?
jaydog2314
Well-Known Member
cool, thanks for the update. looks like an interesting and tough brew. i've read a few clone 120 postings and i'll be curious how it comes out.
i did oxygenate for a minute before i pitched the yeast. i'm actually online today looking for ideas about whether to oxygenate anymore (enough oxygenation for yeast vs. oxygen after yeast are complete staling the beer).
my fermenter was going vigorously on sunday and this morning, but after coming back from work today it has definitely slowed. i'm going to read some other posts to decide if i should put just some sugar in or some sugar nad the WLP099 as well. i did that yeast starter yesterday for the WLP099 and it surprised me becuase there was actually a little mini krausen. i stole some of the wort from saturday's brew to pitch the WLP099 into. this way i can just dump the whole thing back into the original batch without worrying about adding different flavors from some DME that i alternatively could have used for the 099 yeast starter.
i'll read around, add whatever it is i'm going to add, and then check back in...
my fermenter was going vigorously on sunday and this morning, but after coming back from work today it has definitely slowed. i'm going to read some other posts to decide if i should put just some sugar in or some sugar nad the WLP099 as well. i did that yeast starter yesterday for the WLP099 and it surprised me becuase there was actually a little mini krausen. i stole some of the wort from saturday's brew to pitch the WLP099 into. this way i can just dump the whole thing back into the original batch without worrying about adding different flavors from some DME that i alternatively could have used for the 099 yeast starter.
i'll read around, add whatever it is i'm going to add, and then check back in...
so what i've been doing goes against all the sanitation rules i know. i'm just hoping i was fairly clean about it and that the alcohol level quickly gets to a point where no other bacteria or infection can take hold.
i started by measuring out 3oz of corn sugar into a plastic baggy. the smaller snack size bags were nice for ease of handling, however, if you overfill them and get the sugar in the sealing grooves, it doesn't seal well. maybe next time ill consider the sandwich size ziplocks.
anyways, i popped the top on my 5 gallon bucket using this orange tool i got on amazon. it's the orange wrench looking thing. it didn't work as well as i thought it would, but definitely better than using my fingers to pry off the lid. especially since i'll be doing it a couple times a day.
i started by measuring out 3oz of corn sugar into a plastic baggy. the smaller snack size bags were nice for ease of handling, however, if you overfill them and get the sugar in the sealing grooves, it doesn't seal well. maybe next time ill consider the sandwich size ziplocks.
anyways, i popped the top on my 5 gallon bucket using this orange tool i got on amazon. it's the orange wrench looking thing. it didn't work as well as i thought it would, but definitely better than using my fingers to pry off the lid. especially since i'll be doing it a couple times a day.
woops...didn't mean to post that one quite yet....
so i had a bucket of sanitizer with a bowl, a long spoon, a hydrometer, my orange wrench thing, and a refractometer.
i popped the top and then dropped the hyrdometer in to get a reading. it was 1.020 which was a little lower than i wanted to let it get. i wanted to keep feeding it to keep it bubbling. hopefully it will get started again with the 3oz dose i gave it. i took a picture of the inside of the fermenter and it looks like the krausen has already fallen. i'm thinking that means i'm later than i wanted to be on my first sugar addition. to actually add the sugar, i spooned some of the wort into my sanitized bowl and added the sugar packet. i mixed it up and then added it back in to the fermenter. i didn't want to just dump the packet of sugar into the bucket for fear that it would all just sink to the bottom and not be fermented. i also stirred up the wort just a little to get everything up into solution.
according to the notes i took (and the math i did that i no longer remember) adding that 3oz bag of sugar should bring my OG up by about 0.003. so my pre-sugar O.G. was 1.056, but now adjusted for the recent sugar addition, i'm at an adjusted O.G. of 1.059.
i bought 5 pounds of sugar and when i put it all in baggies, it left me with 25 3oz additions, i think. if i add all 25 bags that will increase my pre-sugar O.G. of 1.056 to 1.131 (1.056 + 0.075). if i get the finishing gravity to 1.020, that would put me at a projected abv of about 14.3%. it's unfortunate that i didn't get all the way to 1.100 with just the grain. this will prevent me from getting all the way to 20% abv, but then again this is my experiment for an eventual 5 gallon batch with all my lessons learned.
one other factor i have working against me is that since i didn't boil all the way down to the 2.5 gallons i planned on (i have 4 gallons), each of my 3oz sugar additions doesn't really add 0.003 to my O.G. ....i think. sometimes this stuff confuses me, so if you know better, let me know!
so i had a bucket of sanitizer with a bowl, a long spoon, a hydrometer, my orange wrench thing, and a refractometer.
i popped the top and then dropped the hyrdometer in to get a reading. it was 1.020 which was a little lower than i wanted to let it get. i wanted to keep feeding it to keep it bubbling. hopefully it will get started again with the 3oz dose i gave it. i took a picture of the inside of the fermenter and it looks like the krausen has already fallen. i'm thinking that means i'm later than i wanted to be on my first sugar addition. to actually add the sugar, i spooned some of the wort into my sanitized bowl and added the sugar packet. i mixed it up and then added it back in to the fermenter. i didn't want to just dump the packet of sugar into the bucket for fear that it would all just sink to the bottom and not be fermented. i also stirred up the wort just a little to get everything up into solution.
according to the notes i took (and the math i did that i no longer remember) adding that 3oz bag of sugar should bring my OG up by about 0.003. so my pre-sugar O.G. was 1.056, but now adjusted for the recent sugar addition, i'm at an adjusted O.G. of 1.059.
i bought 5 pounds of sugar and when i put it all in baggies, it left me with 25 3oz additions, i think. if i add all 25 bags that will increase my pre-sugar O.G. of 1.056 to 1.131 (1.056 + 0.075). if i get the finishing gravity to 1.020, that would put me at a projected abv of about 14.3%. it's unfortunate that i didn't get all the way to 1.100 with just the grain. this will prevent me from getting all the way to 20% abv, but then again this is my experiment for an eventual 5 gallon batch with all my lessons learned.
one other factor i have working against me is that since i didn't boil all the way down to the 2.5 gallons i planned on (i have 4 gallons), each of my 3oz sugar additions doesn't really add 0.003 to my O.G. ....i think. sometimes this stuff confuses me, so if you know better, let me know!
and the last picture i wanted to post was all my bags of sugar...
and one thing i forgot to add earlier...i need to get a ladle of some kind. it was really difficult spooning out the wort with that long spoon. i could only get a little at a time and it was time consuming which opened up more of a possibility of contamination.
and one thing i forgot to add earlier...i need to get a ladle of some kind. it was really difficult spooning out the wort with that long spoon. i could only get a little at a time and it was time consuming which opened up more of a possibility of contamination.
also forgot to post a pic of the WLP099 yeast starter. this is the high gravity yeast from white labs. i'm hoping this will take my beer all the way down to 1.020 from about 1.131. i am still deciding however on whether i might keep adding sugar past the 25 packets i ahve. i think it will all depend on how well the beer is handling those sugar packets at hte end...
When you're making a starter, the yeast are growing and multiplying. Part of what they need to do that is oxygen. When you put an airlock on, all the oxygen gets converted to CO2 through yeast respiration then pushed out the airlock. When this happens, oxygen can't get back in, and you will be starving the yeast of the desperately needed oxygen.
I did what you're doing the first couple of times, but I noticed once I started using aluminum foil, it seemed that I had more yeast slurry - almost double, actually.
Also, if you're not already, use FermCap in the starter. It will keep it from foaming over - I had lots of messes to clean up before I used that glorious substance.
I did what you're doing the first couple of times, but I noticed once I started using aluminum foil, it seemed that I had more yeast slurry - almost double, actually.
Also, if you're not already, use FermCap in the starter. It will keep it from foaming over - I had lots of messes to clean up before I used that glorious substance.
i added 6 oz of sugar this morning instead of 3oz because it looked like the fermentation was kind of sluggish. i was seeing a bubble every 10-15 seconds or so. i think it was a good idea htat i did. today at lunch i see a bubble every 5 seconds or so. so at lunch i added another 3oz of sugar.
this brings my adjusted O.G. to 1.068 and my current gravity to 8 brix (or roughly 1.028) for an ABV of 5.16%.
this raises a question though. i put my hydrometer in the fermentor and just left it. it's kind of stuck in the trub on the bottom and so i'm not even using it for gravity readings. i'm using only my refractometer. i think there is an adjustment that needs to be made though so i will need to do some research. i'm not sure if my current gravity reading is accurate becuase of this. i will def read around on this tonight.
this brings my adjusted O.G. to 1.068 and my current gravity to 8 brix (or roughly 1.028) for an ABV of 5.16%.
this raises a question though. i put my hydrometer in the fermentor and just left it. it's kind of stuck in the trub on the bottom and so i'm not even using it for gravity readings. i'm using only my refractometer. i think there is an adjustment that needs to be made though so i will need to do some research. i'm not sure if my current gravity reading is accurate becuase of this. i will def read around on this tonight.
The whole time you are making a starter CO2 is being produced and is pushing out the top of the vessel. Airlock or foil, NO new oxygen is getting back in until the wort is already fermented. It makes no difference. Foil is just easier to get to fit onto a wide mouthed flask. The point of a stir plate isn't oxygen, it's keeping the yeast in suspension and preventing them from flocculating so they keep reproducing.
tyzippers
Well-Known Member
sccrgolee said:
You are right. There will certainly need to be an adjustment made to your refractometer reading. Once fermentation takes place and alcohol is produced, the refractometer reading becomes inaccurate. Others might argue that even with a calculated adjustment that the reading might still be inaccurate.
so is a hydrometer reading the only really accurate reading? i just don't wnat to waste that much beer taking so many readings (2x every day) and additionally, i find it very hard to take readings with a hydrometer becuase there's always a tiny bit of foam adhering to the side and not allowing a good read.
after a few days of adding sugar, the fermentation has slowed, so i decided to dump the WLP099 yeast starter in. i've also been adding 6oz of sugar more often than i've been adding the planned 3oz of sugar. i wonder if i should have just planned on adding 6oz each time and then adjusted to 3oz once things started slowing and i didn't want to overshoot and make an overly sweet beer. the gravity reading is staying between 1.028 and 1.032. the adjusted O.G. is now up to 1.080. approximate ABV is 5.9%.
unfortunately this process is a little anticlimatic knowing that i've already messed up the pre-sugar O.G. shooting for 1.100 and getting 1.056 is kind of a buzzkill. i'll def follow through on this process as i think i will gain some valuable insights for the next time i do this on a larger scale.
it's also been a little dissapointing to see so few responses to my posting. i thought i would have seen more interest. ...hint hint. lol.
unfortunately this process is a little anticlimatic knowing that i've already messed up the pre-sugar O.G. shooting for 1.100 and getting 1.056 is kind of a buzzkill. i'll def follow through on this process as i think i will gain some valuable insights for the next time i do this on a larger scale.
it's also been a little dissapointing to see so few responses to my posting. i thought i would have seen more interest. ...hint hint. lol.
tyzippers
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear of your troubles. Here's the good thing...that 099 should keep your beer from getting overly sweet. That yeast is a workhorse!
Any way, me thinks that the apparent lack of interest may be that the interest in DFH120 has been overtaken by other rare brews (I say this since I live in a podunk town where people think Guinness is a craft beer) such as Heady Topper and Three Floyds stuff and...the list goes on. Check out the Make a Wish Thread and check out the wish lists of others. I haven't seen any DFH on any of those lists. At least this is only one guy's observation.
jaydog2314
Well-Known Member
i think people are interested but so few have the time or experience with a 120 clone. i'm pretty new to brewing and am more curious how to pull this off in hopes of one day having the time to do it. from all accounts of 120 clones its like taking care of a kid, i already got 2 of those so i dont i think a 120 clone is for me right now but i'm interested how it comes out.
If you want some insight on what a beast 120 is to brew, watch the Brew Masters episode where DFH has to dump a batch (~$500k loss): http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/other-shows/videos/brew-masters-120-minute-ipa.htm
I think your lack of interest comes from the fact that 120 is niche, even by craft brew standards. Add in attempts at a homebrew clone and you're even further in the niche. Good luck though!
I think your lack of interest comes from the fact that 120 is niche, even by craft brew standards. Add in attempts at a homebrew clone and you're even further in the niche. Good luck though!
thanks to all three of you...i think i agree with all your comments. i did see that brew masters episode....heart breaking. lol.
i think the newness of 120 has waned...it kind of is like having a kid. this week i've had to wake up at a rediculous hour for work (0300) and so feeding my baby at 0330 this last week has really sucked. i agree it's a big time committment....so yeah, maybe people aren't as interested.
i will continue to post though, if for nothing other than my enjoyment of chronicling the process.
so i dumped the 099 yeast starter as i already mentioned along with 9oz of sugar. today it's bubbling every 2 seconds or so. good to know the beer isn't dead. i got a little worried when i went a good long stretch without any bubbling. i think i will continue to feed it higher amounts of sugar to keep the yeast happy. however, i do need to get some research done on the refractometer readings and how to get more accurate readings. i'm still reading my refractometer as bouncing between 7 and 8 brix which is approx 1.028 and 1.032. i've just been super tired this week with the early wake-up that when i get home at the end of the day all i can think about is sleep.
anyways...more to come...
i think the newness of 120 has waned...it kind of is like having a kid. this week i've had to wake up at a rediculous hour for work (0300) and so feeding my baby at 0330 this last week has really sucked. i agree it's a big time committment....so yeah, maybe people aren't as interested.
i will continue to post though, if for nothing other than my enjoyment of chronicling the process.
so i dumped the 099 yeast starter as i already mentioned along with 9oz of sugar. today it's bubbling every 2 seconds or so. good to know the beer isn't dead. i got a little worried when i went a good long stretch without any bubbling. i think i will continue to feed it higher amounts of sugar to keep the yeast happy. however, i do need to get some research done on the refractometer readings and how to get more accurate readings. i'm still reading my refractometer as bouncing between 7 and 8 brix which is approx 1.028 and 1.032. i've just been super tired this week with the early wake-up that when i get home at the end of the day all i can think about is sleep.
anyways...more to come...
today i added 9oz more of sugar. this brings the adjusted O.G. to 1.122. the final gravity is hovering right around 1.030. today it was 1.032. this brings my current ABV to 10.4%.
it bubbles away at about once every 5-7 seconds or so. i hope the WLP099 doesn't crap out too early. i've seen posts on here that take it above 20%. i'm just glad i got my beer above 10% since it's the test batch. the next time i do this, my goal will be 20%....and i won't screw it up right off the bat with a low O.G. from grain.
it bubbles away at about once every 5-7 seconds or so. i hope the WLP099 doesn't crap out too early. i've seen posts on here that take it above 20%. i'm just glad i got my beer above 10% since it's the test batch. the next time i do this, my goal will be 20%....and i won't screw it up right off the bat with a low O.G. from grain.
I've been watching your thread since the beginning along with the other 120 thread started a month before yours. I did a version of this brew back in September following scottlands thread. I stopped my beer at 14.87% cause I bottle. I would think your thread has some of its thunder stolen due to the fact of the other thread is pretty fresh (1 month older) and that scottland and company nailed the process down pretty good. If you haven't read that thread, I would brush up a little before doing your real batch. There is some great info on the brew process and fermentation.
I would suggest doing a trial run with water on a 2hr boil. Just to see what you actually boil off. Also I would suggest mashing at 147*F with a ratio of 1.25qt/1# grain. Follow your past brewing process that your setup gives you for volumes. Consistent brewing will help you with a beer this expensive and amount of time it takes. I would buy a few pounds of DME to adjust your OG if you fall short. When having a ton of grain in the mash you will lose efficiency points. I mashed 10# 2 row and 1# crystal. Pre-boil OG:1.050. Added 3# DME and boiled finishing at OG:1.086. I started with 9 gallons boiling an with hop absorption and boil off I ended up with 5.25gal in the primary.
Fermentation schedule is part of the fun (IMO) since once my wort is in the fermenter I can't wait to brew again. So this actually kept me busy for a few days nurturing my wonderful nectar. On the second day (evening) of fermentation I pitched my 099 with 8oz dextrose. My process was keep a turkey baster in starsan next to my fermenter along with a 1qt mason jar also in starsan. Pulled out the wort and mixed the dextrose in with the wort and repitched back into the fermenter. The next morning I followed the same process the night before(8oz). That night I bumped up the sugar additions to 1# twice a day till I finished with all 4# of dextrose. I started the sugar additions and pitched yeast when my SG reached 1.030. This keeps the yeast happy and chugging along. I also kept my hydrometer along with my flask in starsan so I can check the gravity. This seemed to be the best way to get your FG down low. Keeping the gravity around 1.020-1.030 for a few days (dextrose additions) seemed to be the best way all of us got our FG down to 1.006 and lower. Happy yeast makes a happy brewer. I fermented at 61*F to start and bumped up the temp to 64*F on the third day. Held steady till fermentation was complete (21 days in primary). Racked to secondary and started the dry hop schedule.
This was my experience and not that it works for everyone but it worked well for me. Good luck with your brew and I will keep up to see how your results come out. If your bottling I can give you the process that worked great for me using champagne yeast.
Cheers
I would suggest doing a trial run with water on a 2hr boil. Just to see what you actually boil off. Also I would suggest mashing at 147*F with a ratio of 1.25qt/1# grain. Follow your past brewing process that your setup gives you for volumes. Consistent brewing will help you with a beer this expensive and amount of time it takes. I would buy a few pounds of DME to adjust your OG if you fall short. When having a ton of grain in the mash you will lose efficiency points. I mashed 10# 2 row and 1# crystal. Pre-boil OG:1.050. Added 3# DME and boiled finishing at OG:1.086. I started with 9 gallons boiling an with hop absorption and boil off I ended up with 5.25gal in the primary.
Fermentation schedule is part of the fun (IMO) since once my wort is in the fermenter I can't wait to brew again. So this actually kept me busy for a few days nurturing my wonderful nectar. On the second day (evening) of fermentation I pitched my 099 with 8oz dextrose. My process was keep a turkey baster in starsan next to my fermenter along with a 1qt mason jar also in starsan. Pulled out the wort and mixed the dextrose in with the wort and repitched back into the fermenter. The next morning I followed the same process the night before(8oz). That night I bumped up the sugar additions to 1# twice a day till I finished with all 4# of dextrose. I started the sugar additions and pitched yeast when my SG reached 1.030. This keeps the yeast happy and chugging along. I also kept my hydrometer along with my flask in starsan so I can check the gravity. This seemed to be the best way to get your FG down low. Keeping the gravity around 1.020-1.030 for a few days (dextrose additions) seemed to be the best way all of us got our FG down to 1.006 and lower. Happy yeast makes a happy brewer. I fermented at 61*F to start and bumped up the temp to 64*F on the third day. Held steady till fermentation was complete (21 days in primary). Racked to secondary and started the dry hop schedule.
This was my experience and not that it works for everyone but it worked well for me. Good luck with your brew and I will keep up to see how your results come out. If your bottling I can give you the process that worked great for me using champagne yeast.
Cheers
jaydog2314
Well-Known Member
hopcop, what did you ABV finish at for your 120 clone?
I stopped at 14.87% ABV cause I bottle. When I do this again I'm going to18% ABV. I can carbonate that high with champagne yeast added at bottling with confidence. My beer was fully carbed at 3 weeks. So next time I'm going all the way to make the exact clone.
At the time I didn't see any positive results with bottle conditioning anything higher than 15% ABV. Plus never using champagne yeast and never had a beer with this much alcohol I didn't want to mess up and not have it carb. I talked with my LHBS and they told me it would be good to not go any higher than 15%. So after doing it and had great success, I will without a doubt go for the 18% ABV that the real 120 is. It was really a lack of experience with techniques and being overly cautious on a brew that cost me almost $100.
tyzippers
Well-Known Member
Fair enough! Does DFH use champagne yeast to bottle those beauties or do they force carb? The only time I had a 120 was at my brother's house and we had already had a full day of beer tasting...get me? 
So I don't remember if there was yeast in the bottle. I've got one in my cellar, but I don't want to open it just to find out.
So I don't remember if there was yeast in the bottle. I've got one in my cellar, but I don't want to open it just to find out.tyzippers said:Fair enough! Does DFH use champagne yeast to bottle those beauties or do they force carb? The only time I had a 120 was at my brother's house and we had already had a full day of beer tasting...get me?
I've never seen any dregs in the bottom of a 120 or any of there ales. I did however see some in the Theobroma. That beer was really good. I have a few 120 still in my basement from 2010-2011. I have a few Old School Barleywines from 2011 too. I'm pretty lucky to have some great craft brew stores in my area that can get a ton of beers most regions can't. We get every bottled brew from DFH.
Cheers
so i decided to stop adding sugar. i will continue to nurse this beer and finish it out, but i think i've gathered the data that i needed for my eventual 5 gallon 120 clone. i only reached like 12% but i knew that i was missing about 0.050 worth of gravity from the grains (see previous posts). i know what i need to do to fix that in the future.
i've learned some good stuff from this experiment that will make the next time much smoother.
i posted a few more pics of my methods below. i had a bucket filled with sanitizer that i kept the stainless spoon and stainless bowl in when not in use. i would basically open the lid to the fermenter, spoon out some wort into the stainless bowl, mix in the sugar and dump it back. you can see the other pics where the wort is clear when i take the lid off, but foams up pretty big when i dump the sugar in. before adding the sugar i would take my gravity reading. as mentioned before, i need to actually use a hydrometer instead of a refractometer because my readings will be off. still haven't come up with a good way to do that without losing a lot of thieves worth of wort.
the last pic is bread my wife and i made form using the spent grains. it didn't turn out very well. i think we need a better recipe. lol.
i will continue to post my procedures on dry hopping and the kegging/beer gunning into bottles for aging.
i've learned some good stuff from this experiment that will make the next time much smoother.
i posted a few more pics of my methods below. i had a bucket filled with sanitizer that i kept the stainless spoon and stainless bowl in when not in use. i would basically open the lid to the fermenter, spoon out some wort into the stainless bowl, mix in the sugar and dump it back. you can see the other pics where the wort is clear when i take the lid off, but foams up pretty big when i dump the sugar in. before adding the sugar i would take my gravity reading. as mentioned before, i need to actually use a hydrometer instead of a refractometer because my readings will be off. still haven't come up with a good way to do that without losing a lot of thieves worth of wort.
the last pic is bread my wife and i made form using the spent grains. it didn't turn out very well. i think we need a better recipe. lol.
i will continue to post my procedures on dry hopping and the kegging/beer gunning into bottles for aging.
tyzippers
Well-Known Member
Definitely a +1 to the hydrometer! If you're super careful about sanitizing your thief, you can always return the wort back to the fermenter. Not to mention, when the alcohol starts to creep up there, I've always operated under the impression that the environment in the wort at that point is uninhabitable to the nasties that would cause infection. I'm not suggesting that sanitation is not needed, but I worry less about infections with high ABV brews once the yeast had produced a great deal of the alcohol. I would be willing to guess that oxygenation would be more of a concern, though since fermentation is still taking place, the oxygen will be taken care of by the yeast. So, I guess, since I'm rambling, take what I say with a grain of salt, but I've only had one infected beer out of about 100 brews (I've lost track at this point) and that was because I waited two days to pitch my yeast after the boil. (Unintentionally, before anyone crucifies me
)
I've been doing something very similar to your "science project"
and in similar fashion. I sanitize a half gallon glass pitcher and my hydrometer and sample tube, draw the hydro sample and get the reading, pour that quietly into the pitcher, draw more beer to add to the pitcher, then mix in the sugar before pouring it all back into the fermenter.I started this thing with a 92 point batch with enough US-05 to get down to around 10 points before starting the sugar program - which it did - and keeps going back to: as of this morning the adjusted OG is up to 1.135 and the current SG has slid right back down to 1.010 - for an ABV up around 16.4%.
I had no idea US-05 could hang in there that long, and I had planned on adding WLP099 right about now, but now I want to see how far I can push the US-05!
fwiw, I've had this batch on really tight temperature control from the jump, and the taste samples have been remarkably smooth so far. If I had any sense I'd probably call this "done", but as I actually have plenty of beer on tap again and lots in the pipeline, I can play with this thing to see where it goes...for science!
Cheers!
both great ideas on hydrometer usage...
i AM enjoying the playing around with this beer. i've never really done this before and i'm learning a lot. thanks for the input guys!
it'll be pretty quiet for a week or so. the next thing in line is to rack it to a secondary. i think i'll do that next weekend. from there, my next challenge is to dry hop (something i've never done).
see you all in a week!
i AM enjoying the playing around with this beer. i've never really done this before and i'm learning a lot. thanks for the input guys!
it'll be pretty quiet for a week or so. the next thing in line is to rack it to a secondary. i think i'll do that next weekend. from there, my next challenge is to dry hop (something i've never done).
see you all in a week!
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
Awesome thread. Subscribed. Can't wait to see the end result.
GoodDogBadDog
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Subscribed. Going to read through this thread a bit later.
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