Experimenting with liquid maltose

Brewing with Liquid Malt Extract

I have obtained a 4 KG sample of Liquid Malt Extract from an importer, and am planning to try it out as a replacement for sugar to brew a batch of Cooper’s Bitter (Alternatives in stock are Coopers IPA and Coopers Real Ale-in case anyone feels they would work better?) – and as this is very experimental, I have a number of questions about how to proceed, and am wondering if anyone else on these forums has prior experience which might be of help. To start with the LME is NOT a product from the homebrew market which is non-existent where I live. Presumably it is produced for the use of food manufactures of one sort or another. The guy who gave it to me says he THINKS other home brewers may have used it in the past and bought more from him so it is probably usable! He suggests that I should probably double the weight which I would use if I used ordinary sugar – so for one KG sugar, substitute 2 KG LME etc.

Questions:

1. I can mix the LME into the brew in the same way as I would normally mix up a batch of Coopers – i.e. pour the beer mix plus the LME into the fermenter and then pour in 2 or 3 litres of boiling water and stir away. Or perhaps it would be better to boil it all up in a pot with about 5 litres of water and boil it all for 20 minutes or so. This second option would overcome one concern I have as to exactly how clean and bacteria-free is my sample….but can LME be boiled in the same way as DME can after it has been mixed with cool water? Does anyone know that?
   
2. I can use either Safale SO-4 yeast or the one that Coopers supply. Would either be equally workable?
   
3. Does anyone know anything about the shelf life of LME? My sample is in a sort of 4 KG plastic jar with a screw on lid. I have placed it in fridge till ready to use, but I expect to use only half and then keep the other half for a few weeks till I can start another batch once I know how this one turns out! The usual packaging is in 25 KG buckets, so that would presumably need to be decanted into 2 KG containers and stored. Can LME be frozen ? (I have loads of freezer space, but not a lot of fridge space) – and how long can it reliably be kept?
   
4. An alternative and much lighter coloured product is labelled as “Liquid Glucose” – is that the same thing as LME – or what is the difference? Unfortunately the supplier is not able to impart this sort of basic knowledge in any language to which I have access, so the obvious solution of asking him is a closed door!

A lot of questions, and in the end I probably just have to leap in the dark, but if anyone on the site has experience which might help reduce the number of variables in the equation, I am interested to her from you!

HughRichardson said:

Brewing with Liquid Malt Extract
Questions:

1. I can mix the LME into the brew in the same way as I would normally mix up a batch of Coopers – i.e. pour the beer mix plus the LME into the fermenter and then pour in 2 or 3 litres of boiling water and stir away. Or perhaps it would be better to boil it all up in a pot with about 5 litres of water and boil it all for 20 minutes or so. This second option would overcome one concern I have as to exactly how clean and bacteria-free is my sample….but can LME be boiled in the same way as DME can after it has been mixed with cool water? Does anyone know that?
   
2. I can use either Safale SO-4 yeast or the one that Coopers supply. Would either be equally workable?
   
3. Does anyone know anything about the shelf life of LME? My sample is in a sort of 4 KG plastic jar with a screw on lid. I have placed it in fridge till ready to use, but I expect to use only half and then keep the other half for a few weeks till I can start another batch once I know how this one turns out! The usual packaging is in 25 KG buckets, so that would presumably need to be decanted into 2 KG containers and stored. Can LME be frozen ? (I have loads of freezer space, but not a lot of fridge space) – and how long can it reliably be kept?
   
4. An alternative and much lighter colored product is labeled as “Liquid Glucose” – is that the same thing as LME – or what is the difference? Unfortunately the supplier is not able to impart this sort of basic knowledge in any language to which I have access, so the obvious solution of asking him is a closed door!

Click to expand...

1 - Yes. The LME should be able to boiled. When I used to use it in mini mashes, i would steep my grains for the prescribed times, then add the LME to the hot wort stirring vigorously. Bring it to a boil watching carefully for boilovers, and stirring fairly frequently to avoid anything sticking to the bottom of the pot and burning.

2 - Any yeast should work with this. Make sure you're in the right range (OG and Temperature).

3 - Shelf life depends on conditions. I'd say you'll be fine for a month or two if it is stored correctly. Keep as little headspace as possible, and leave it in the fridge. I'm not sure about freezing it, but it would probably give you better timelines.

4 - Maltose and Glucose are different sugar molecules. I think Glucose is a simple sugar such as table sugar or corn syrup. Glucose wont give you the depth of flavor that maltose will. There is also some evidence or theory that your yeast will eat all the glucose and leave the maltose alone if they are in similar concentrations. It's "easier" for them to metabolize. I'd stick with the Maltose.

Thanks to Siclesr for those helpful and informed answers!
The die has been cast! I used the 2 KG of Maltose and gave it a brief boil in 5 litres water before taking off the boil and adding in the beer mix can. Unfortunately I am all out of hops, so had to skip the hop boil that would have been ideally a part of the process.
I went with the Safale yeast and pitched it at about 24 Degrees C which was warmer than the 21 which I had intended. It's tucked up in the fermenter now so fingers crossed!
I decided to take a chance and freeze the second half of my Mlatose sample, as I need to know if that works OK before I go and buy in 25 litres of the stuff. I picked up a tip on another thread to pour a little vodka on top of the malt which eliminates the air gap, so lets see how that all works out!

I appreciate the guidance you can usually pick up on this forum.

Cheers and thanks again!

In case of interest to anyone following this thread, the brew has been in the fermenter for 12 days now, and is still bubbling away. The bubble frequency as seen at the airlock is now around 52 seconds and seems to be increasing by around 10 to 15 seconds a day. This seems a rather unexpectedly long fermentation, and it will probably go to two full weeks at least before all CO2 has stopped coming off. Temperature has been an even 20 to 21 degrees C all along.

I am not sure why this fermentation should be taking so long to complete and have to hope it is not an indication of something amiss. Most pundits seem to stress leaving the brew in the fermenter for as long as possible, so that is pretty much what I am doing! Fingers crossed....

Just realax and have a beer


What was your recipe?

Thanks.
Recipe was just as per instructions for Cooper's Bitter with the exception that I substituted my 2 KG of LME sample for the sugars, boiled that briefly in 5 litres RO water before cooling down and pitching Safale SO-4 yeast in place of the Coopers supplied yeast.
Still the odd bubbles rising every 70 seconds or so. I am hoping to borrow a hydrometer so I can see what is happening in a more scientific fashion. Failing that I might bleed off a sample to taste just to make sure I am not nurse-maiding something that has gone awry!
I am going to take your suggestion and pour myself a beer!!