Hurricane burner issues

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Old_E

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I have a new single tier with 2 hurricane burners I am trying to run on natural gas. They are connected to needle valves, properly drilled from Tejas Smokers then to yellow gas lines then to 1/2" black pipe. I was trying to run the gas a long distance to my garage, just because that is the best most convenient place to brew. That run is about 50 feet from my hook up. I knew that there could/would be a significant drop in pressure affecting the output. Despite the 5/8 inch hose, this seemed to be the case when I fired it up and it took about 2 hours to boil 13 gallons (I lost track).

Anyway, suspecting the long run was the problem I moved the system closer and used a 10' natural gas line, and gave it a test. 6 gallons and about 45 minutes later it was at 160 deg. Not much better, if at all better. This 10 foot line is the same one that fired my jet burner no problem would boil very quickly.

The burners light right up and burn with low blue flames. Adjusting the vent gets a little bit of orange, but the adjustment seems minimal. I don't know what I am doing as at as this is concerned.

What gives? I am at a loss. Is this as well as these are supposed to work?
 
The burners light right up and burn with low blue flames.
Click to expand...

If the flames are blue (with maybe just a bit of yellow at the flame tops) but low, the problem isn't going to be with the air shutter, it's going to be with the volume of gas entering the burner. If your gas supply was lighting up jet burners with a lot more flame than the hurricanes, I would suspect there isn't enough volume getting through the needle valve and/or the orifice screwed into the burner...

Cheers!
 
day_trippr said:
If the flames are blue (with maybe just a bit of yellow at the flame tops) but low, the problem isn't going to be with the air shutter, it's going to be with the volume of gas entering the burner. If your gas supply was lighting up jet burners with a lot more flame than the hurricanes, I would suspect there isn't enough volume getting through the needle valve and/or the orifice screwed into the burner...

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thanks. About how high should they be with the valve all open?
 
BTW - I emailed the owner of Tejas Smokers the above info, and this was how he replied:

"With a low pressure regulator that sounds about right. You are not going to
get any better performance using natural gas.

If you want increased performance then you have to switch to a #61 orifice
and switch to high pressure propane...using a propane tank and a high
pressure regulator like our COM2, and also switch the air shutter to one for
high pressure propane that has a smaller opening. If you do that you can
increase the btu/hr to about 200,000. That will cut the time to a boiling
down by quite a bit.

You can't get much better performance with natural gas."

This was hard to believe and somewhat disappointing.
 
Pratzie said:
Ive read the natural gas loses some BTU's compared to propane but i don't think it should take u that long for 13 gallons. maybe fiddle around with the air damper?
Click to expand...

That's what I thought too.

I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing with that damper. It seems like a tighter better flame when it is less open.
 
I have a Blichmann. Granted i use propane but the first time i did it, i followed all the directions and it took almost two hours to bring 7 gallons to a boil. That is very bad. Second time i went crazy with the regulator and opened it up more. Not all the way but def more then the first time and i had 7 gallons to a rolling boil in 32 minutes. That being said it seems the more open the regulator, the less open the air damper. The flames get yellow and go "limp" for lack of a better word, instead of the tight blue triangles im looking for.

Obviously the company doesn't really have a good answer for ya so maybe experiement a bit more with the regulator and damper without the BK on top and see what u can get.
 
Thanks. About how high should they be with the valve all open?
Click to expand...

Well, here's a BG14 "banjo" burner (which is virtually identical - if not the exact same casting - as the Hurricane burner) running on natural gas.



I assume yours does not look anything like this. In fact it might be helpful to post a picture of your burner in its best tune.

I still believe there's something constricting the gas feed, and makes me question that orifice/needle valve you got from Tejas. Maybe they sent you the wrong one?

Cheers!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
day_trippr said:
Well, here's a BG14 "banjo" burner (which is virtually identical - if not the exact same casting - as the Hurricane burner) running on natural gas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHaK7brjvao

I assume yours does not look anything like this. In fact it might be helpful to post a picture of your burner in its best tune.

I still believe there's something constricting the gas feed, and makes me question that orifice/needle valve you got from Tejas. Maybe they sent you the wrong one?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that and thanks for all the help trying to sort this out. It is really frustrating. While I absolutely positive, my first reaction to seeing that video was: Hell no. I really don't think it is putting out a flame near that high. I will try to take a video and/or picture tonight after dark, since I think that is the only way anyone could effectively see it.

I am thinking (and hoping) you are correct about the constriction. I don't think they sent me the wrong one, here is why:
I ordered the valve, and got it. I later realized that I had never told them to modify it at all. When I realized this, I contacted them, and told them about my set up. He told me to send it back and they would drill it properly for me. So they did, and I am using the new, "properly drilled" valves. Their customer service has been great, but I suspect something is awry.

One more thing, I don't know if this is a big deal, but the lines coming from the black pipe to the valve are pretty narrow. Maybe 1/4" and about 18-24"?

here is the best pic I have of my setup, at the moment:
LO3fPr0.jpg
 
Ok. Based on the suspicions, I switched one of the valves to the Natural gas orifice I originally ordered from Williams. with that I also upsized the yellow gas line. It is difficult to tell from the packaging, b/c they want to give you outside diameters, but I think I moved it from 1/4" to 3/8". All of this made quite a difference. I still need to put some water on to find a boil time, but just looking at the flame you can tell a major difference. Also you could just feel the heat coming off. There was MUCH more.

Here is a really crappy video I made:
th_126E8F9E-F88A-41D3-BC66-EA45B4813EEC-4817-00000A1B610B11A2_zps3beca186.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
Not a crappy video at all, it's actually plenty informative.

A few comments:

- pretty clear that Tejas setup isn't cutting the mustard at all. Did you happen to compare the orifice diameters between theirs and the Williams kit?

- the burner output level should be controlled with the needle valve, not the air shutter. The air shutter should be tuned to account for the setting of the needle valve to provide the cleanest flame (mostly blue with faint yellow tips) so you don't coat your kettles with carbon (and waste gas)

- compared to the video I linked earlier, even your "good burner" seems to be producing considerably lower output. If you're using your shorter 1/2" ID gas hose in the video, I have to wonder how much piping you have inside the residence from the household NG regulator to your hose connection, or if the NG regulator needs to be adjusted, because it just seems too low (and too quiet)

- and on that last note, it might be worth having someone with a manometer check the household gas pressure at your hose tap.

Still, it's pretty darned clear there's a dramatic improvement with the Williams valve/orifice and 1/2" flex hose. I'd send a link to the video to Tejas and see what their response is to that ;)

Cheers!
 
day_trippr said:
Not a crappy video at all, it's actually plenty informative.

A few comments:

- pretty clear that Tejas setup isn't cutting the mustard at all. Did you happen to compare the orifice diameters between theirs and the Williams kit?
Yeah. just looking at them, the Williams looked slightly larger. Obviously it was enough to make a difference.

- the burner output level should be controlled with the needle valve, not the air shutter. The air shutter should be tuned to account for the setting of the needle valve to provide the cleanest flame (mostly blue with faint yellow tips) so you don't coat your kettles with carbon (and waste gas)
Yeah, I just had the needle valve cranked all the way up. so the only thing to do at that point was to fiddle with the shutter.

- compared to the video I linked earlier, even your "good burner" seems to be producing considerably lower output. If you're using your shorter 1/2" ID gas hose in the video, I have to wonder how much piping you have inside the residence from the household NG regulator to your hose connection, or if the NG regulator needs to be adjusted, because it just seems too low (and too quiet)Its actually 1/2 OD hose. I am guessing, b/c it doesn't say that it is 3/8" ID. There is probably 20 plus feet of piping running under the house to this connection. You could be right about it being low. We had it all installed 3 years ago when we bought this house.

- and on that last note, it might be worth having someone with a manometer check the household gas pressure at your hose tap.I might just do that.

Still, it's pretty darned clear there's a dramatic improvement with the Williams valve/orifice and 1/2" flex hose. I'd send a link to the video to Tejas and see what their response is to that ;)
Well I am considering drilling them out a bit more. Why not?

Cheers!
Click to expand...


I am going to try a boil test this weekend. I will report back.
 

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