I have 7 oz. of citra, for a belgian pale ale or IPA

This is going to be my first brew that won't be from a kit so I need some help with the recipe.

I was able to get 7 ounces of citra (5 pellets, 2 leaf). I'm definitely looking to make this nice and hoppy, but I still want the belgian yeast ethers to come through.

As far as the ABV goes I don't want anything more than 8.0% if it's going to be an IPA (it probably will).

Here's my actual questions:

1. How should I schedule my hops? (I do have a carboy that I can use to dry hop)
2. What should I use for my malt extract, and steeping grains?
3. What do you guys thing about adding honey or candi sugar to this?
4. What yeast should I use?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

I recommend you go find a decent IPA recipe, and follow that, and just swap out the yeast for the Belgian yeast. Stone Cali-Belgique IPA is just their IPA with the yeast swapped out with the Duvel yeast.

Don't mess with honey or candi sugar, but I would recommend using up to a pound of plain table sugar to help dry it out since I assume this will be an extract batch.

If you have any other hops, you might want to think about doing the bittering charge with them.. I have heard of people not liking Citra when used for bittering, and besides, it's a great finishing hop, why waste it.

I'm pretty new to this all as well so probably take this advice with a grain of malt ...

But it will probably depend on how much extract and grains you have as to the hops you add. Even still, to me, 7oz of hops seems like a lot. I'd maybe start with 2oz at 60 min, 1-1.5oz at 30, then 1oz at 15 min. If you want to add extra aroma/flavour maybe dry hops another oz.

Like I said I'm pretty new at this too but if recommend plugging it in to a calculator like beer smith and choose a target IBU you want to achieve and just play with the amounts and times. Hop this helps even a little bit

Here's a recipe I've done a few times:

6 lbs extra light DME
1 lb light DME
1 lb Crystal 20
1/2 lb Munich
2 oz citra (60 min)
1 oz citra (30 min)
1 oz citra (5 min)
2 oz citra (dry hop)

I've done this recipe twice and it's delicious. Always used US-05 with it though, so not sure how it would do with a Belgian yeast.

m_c_zero said:

Here's a recipe I've done a few times:

6 lbs extra light DME
1 lb light DME
1 lb Crystal 20
1/2 lb Munich
2 oz citra (60 min)
1 oz citra (30 min)
1 oz citra (5 min)
2 oz citra (dry hop)

I've done this recipe twice and it's delicious. Always used US-05 with it though, so not sure how it would do with a Belgian yeast.

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I have a partial mash recipe that has a similar grain bill, and uses Citra hops along with centennials. It's one of my favorite beers to brew:


Fermentables
4lbs Two Row
1lb Munich Malt
1lb Caramel 20L
.5lb Flaked Barley
1lb Light DME
3.15lbs light LME (add at flameout if doing a partial boil)

Hops
.75 oz Magnum hops @ 40 min
1 oz Citra @ 15 min
1 oz Centennial @ 15 min
1 oz Citra @ 5 min
1 oz Centennial @ 5 min
1 oz Centennial or Citra Dry-hop

Yeast
US-05

OG: 1.066
IBU: 66
SRM: 7.5

This comes out fantastic. If you can't mash 6.5 lbs of grain, you can always do a mini-mash with less. Just adjust it in Beersmith, or some other similar program.

So I've gotten a chance to mess around in Beersmith a bit an I've come up with a recipe that sounds good to me, but I need some feedback. It ended up looking more like a Belgian DIPA, which I'm ok with. Here's what I've got:

Fermentables:
4lbs Light DME
1lb Maris Otter
1lb Belgian Aromatic
1lb Belgian Wheat
1lb Honey (added at flameout)

Hops:
1/2 oz. Citra @ 60 mins
1/2 oz. Citra @ 30 mins
1 1/2 oz. Citra @ 5 mins
2 1/2 oz. Citra @ 2 mins
2 oz. Citra leafs Dry hop for 1 week.

Yeast:
Wyeast 1388 is what I entered in Beersmith. I'd like to know what else would be a good choice because I'm not sure I'll have access to at my LHBS.

Estimations:
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.012
ABV: 8.5%
IBUs: 91

Calder said:

Don't mess with honey or candi sugar, but I would recommend using up to a pound of plain table sugar to help dry it out since I assume this will be an extract batch.

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Honey is excellent for boosting ABV and drying out your beer. It works as well as table sugar, if not better - in my experience, it is much cleaner than table sugar. I throw a pound or so into most of my higher gravity beers, right during the last 2 min of the boil (to try and preserve some of the delicate honey flavors).

As for the hop schedule, I would bitter with an ounce or two, throw 3 in late (maybe 1 oz at 15, 10 and 5 min) and dry hop wit two ounces. But the belgian yeast will likely mask a lot of that hop flavor.

Paully said:

Honey is excellent for boosting ABV and drying out your beer. It works as well as table sugar, if not better - in my experience, it is much cleaner than table sugar. I throw a pound or so into most of my higher gravity beers, right during the last 2 min of the boil (to try and preserve some of the delicate honey flavors).

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My point was that plain sugar is a lot cheaper for similar results. Both will increase abv and lower FG.

How can honey be 'cleaner'. Table sugar is basically 'sugar'. Honey is a sugar syrup with other stuff in it.

I don't think you will get much of the honey flavor or aroma. Your best bets for maximizing any honey flavors are to add it after the main fermentation has finished, or even use it for bottling.

Paully said:

As for the hop schedule, I would bitter with an ounce or two, throw 3 in late (maybe 1 oz at 15, 10 and 5 min) and dry hop wit two ounces. But the belgian yeast will likely mask a lot of that hop flavor.

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The only reason I am bittering with 1/2 and ounce is because when I entered more than that in Beersmith I ended up with too many IBUs. Although, you have a point about the belgian yeast masking the hop flavor. Being that I want the citra to be the main focus of the beer, I think I will actually not use a belgian yeast, and make this just a Citra DIPA.

Calder said:

My point was that plain sugar is a lot cheaper for similar results. Both will increase abv and lower FG.

How can honey be 'cleaner'. Table sugar is basically 'sugar'. Honey is a sugar syrup with other stuff in it.

I don't think you will get much of the honey flavor or aroma. Your best bets for maximizing any honey flavors are to add it after the main fermentation has finished, or even use it for bottling.

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I'm not expecting to get much honey flavor, especially with all the hops I'm using. The reason I want to use honey is mostly because I actually don't have any table sugar but I already have a pound of honey. Honestly I really don't use sugar on anything at home. I mainly use stevia and honey to sweeten my tea and coffee and I'm not much of a baker. lol

Calder said:

My point was that plain sugar is a lot cheaper for similar results. Both will increase abv and lower FG.

How can honey be 'cleaner'. Table sugar is basically 'sugar'. Honey is a sugar syrup with other stuff in it.

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You are right, table sugar is a lot cheaper than honey. In fact, I probably wouldn't use so much honey if my dad were not a bee keeper and hadn't given me like 20 pounds of it.

But, in my experience, honey is much cleaner than table sugar. By "cleaner," I mean that honey tends to just ferment completely out, boosting gravity and drying out the beer, with no ill effects to beer flavor, whereas (at least in my experience) table sugar tends to impart a harsh, cidery flavor to the beer. This could have something to do with the fact that honey is mainly fructose and glucose, whereas table sugar is essentially pure sucrose. But I am no scientist, so I could be wrong (it has happened before).

Paully said:

You are right, table sugar is a lot cheaper than honey. In fact, I probably wouldn't use so much honey if my dad were not a bee keeper and hadn't given me like 20 pounds of it.

But, in my experience, honey is much cleaner than table sugar. By "cleaner," I mean that honey tends to just ferment completely out, boosting gravity and drying out the beer, with no ill effects to beer flavor, whereas (at least in my experience) table sugar tends to impart a harsh, cidery flavor to the beer. This could have something to do with the fact that honey is mainly fructose and glucose, whereas table sugar is essentially pure sucrose. But I am no scientist, so I could be wrong (it has happened before).

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One should use whatever they feel produces the best beer.

My taste buds must be shot, because I have never had a cidery taste in any of my beers even big Belgians that can have up to 25% sugar.

Calder said:

My taste buds must be shot, because I have never had a cidery taste in any of my beers even big Belgians that can have up to 25% sugar.

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Apparently, table sugar (cane/beet sugar) is known to impart a cider-like flavor: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Fermentable_adjuncts

But, if you have had good results with it, keep using it! I will likely keep using honey, since I have had such great results.

I wouldn't take that as a knowledgeable resource. Light brown sugar is basically colored white sugar, and it doesn't say that causes it.

Yes, it was blamed for cider like flavors in the past when it was used in large quantities with poor yeast by homebrewers. Probably fermented hot with low pitching rates resulting in high levels of acetaldehyde, and then with the procedures of the past, was removed from the yeast too early so it didn't have a chance to clean up the apple flavors.

With today's yeasts and knowledge of correct fermentation temperatures it is not a problem. Commercial Belgians use it in large quantities, many British brewers use it as an adjunct, and it often used in wine to adjust the OG to a consistent level.

If Commercial brewers can use it, I'm more than happy to use it.

If you go search the forum, I think you will find the cider myth is pretty much dead.

Sorry to keep beating this horse, but...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Sucrose

As far as I can tell, this is still a valid school of thought - one to which I proscribe, although others (including Calder) may not.

Paully said:

Sorry to keep beating this horse, but...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Sucrose

As far as I can tell, this is still a valid school of thought - one to which I proscribe, although others (including Calder) may not.

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Feel free to keep using expensive sugar if it makes you feel better.

I felt the same way many years ago. I was convinced, I should say, I knew that plain table sugar gave beer a cidery taste. I knew it was right because all the books of that time said so. This was back in the 90s and Papazian was the bible. I paid the premium price for corn sugar to prime with and for any sugar additions. All the items you are referencing are carry-overs from that period. I probably could find a dozen references very quickly with similar information in the books on my shelf, so there is no need to add any more links. However, my experience, and many other's is different.

I stopped making beer for a number of years and when I restarted, someone pointed out I could prime without any issues with table sugar. lots of people did it. I was dubious, but I tried it, and .......... noticed no difference. I did some research and found lots of people were using plain table sugar with no issues.

Reading BLAM, Stan Hieronymus points out that many Belgian brewers use beet sugar (not candi sugar) for their trippels. Basically sucrose. I figured, if it was good for them to use in large quantities, it was good enough for me. So I tried it, and ......... noticed no off flavors. Dark candi sugar is a different matter as it does add some flavors.

I don't know what was the origin of this, I suspect poor quality yeast and poor temperature control, and pour extract (I have old books that say to pitch the dregs of 2 bottles in a 5 gallon batch - we know that is way under-pitching and waiting for a problem to occur). I don't believe it is an issue today.

I have a 3 lb bag of corn sugar in the basement. It has been there for 3 years since I changed to using cane sugar.