HELP!! All Extract Brews taste similar

I'm at a loss. I've been brewing for about 6 months. In that time period I have brewed 7 beers and so far I'm not impressed. Most of my beers have been okay, but not "great" as some people have described their extract brews. The beer I have made all tastes like "extract beer" to me, not like a commercial craft brew, it lacks something, though I cannot articulate what it is. These beers all taste somewhat similar, or maybe it is that the have a similar mouthfeel or something. Either way, something has got to give. I'm thinking of doing full boils, if that doesn't help, maybe going all grain. Below are my batches and processes, if you have any tips that could improve my beer I would greatly appreciate it.

-Extract brewing
-Partial boils (3 gallons for a 5 gallon batch)
-Use tap water-from St. Paul, MN
-Standard 60 minute boil
-Add small amount of gypsum at beginning of boil (per recommendation of Northern brewer St. Paul for our local water)
-Add whirlflock last 15 min of boil
-Use immersion chiller to chill wort-boil in wort for last 10 minutes for sanitation
-Always pitch yeast starter-yeast count calculated from yeastcalc.com-use stir plate for yeast propagation usually 24-48 hrs.- usually chill for 24 hours and decant excess starter wort.

My batches have all been kits from NB with the exception of one clone I made using beersmith. The kits have been as such

Dead Ringer IPA
Brickwarmer Holiday Red
Tongue Splitter Pale Ale
Kiwi Express IPA
Cascade Imperial IPA
Boulevard 80 Acre Clone
Australian Sparkling Ale (Fermenting)

Pretty much all of the kits require steeping specialty grains. Only 2 of the IPA's shared the same yeast strain. Always use Wyeast.

My O.G's have a tendency to be lower than what the kit states. Sometimes as low as 5-7 points. I am super paranoid about sanitation and about aeration of wort prior to pitching. My fermentation always start quickly and almost always require a blow off tube (never tried Fermcap- not sure when to add it). I usually follow kit recommendations for fermentation times- usually allowing 2 full weeks for primary- checking gravity to make sure it's no longer dropping prior to racking. Add Biofine clear to secondary. Usually 2-4 weeks secondary (depending on recipe. At least 2 weeks in bottle prior to chilling, sometimes more if I think it needs it.

Most of my beers carb up fine, and since using biofine clear, the clarity is great, no chill haze, etc.

Sorry, I know this is a long post, but I've been scouring the forums here and nothing seems to fit. My ingredients are always quite fresh (I usually pick up a kit and brew it within 2 weeks- I believe NB gets quite a bit of turn over.) I've read Palmer's How to brew- I feel as though I'm doing everything right, though I still end up with sub-par beer. Maybe I'm too picky and other extract brewers just think their beer is better than it really is? The only areas I think I may be lacking is

1) Water quality?
2) Fermenation Temps. (I ferment ales in my basement- they stay right at the low end of the recommended temps.- Guys at NB say it should be fine, I don't have any issues with lag time, stuck fermentation, etc.?

Thoughts??? PLEASE HELP!!!!

We are all our own worst critics. Why don't you have a friend pour you one of your homebrews and a craft beer you haven't tried (in the same style) and do a blind taste test? Maybe you'll surprise yourself. If not, maybe you'll nail down what you don't like about your homebrews.

Also, maybe try kits from a different source?

Controlled fermentation temps make your beer much better, but I don't think that ambient temps make beer BAD unless they're outside the recommended range.

I have never used a kit and made some great beers with a lot of character using hops, a pound of caramel malt (40 L), 6 lbs extra pale dme and Nottingham. I find that three weeks bottle conditioning helps a lot. Stale dme can effect the flavors in a way you might be experiencing. Sounds like you're a very competent brewer, so don't worry about that. Unseasoned aluminum in the brewing processes can add off flavors. If you are worried about water, get spring water from the store. Keep brewing, don't get discouraged.

Merely a couple of suggestions.

Try doing primary for three weeks, or more, so you're staying on the yeast cake for a bit longer and forego the secondary plus finings. Coupled together with a raise in ferm temps after the attenuation phase is over this might have a positive effect.

You didn't say what the temp of your basement is. It might be that it's ideal for keeping the fermentation temp within range whilst the initial, vigorous, exothermic phase is underway but once the beer goes into the conditioning/clean up phase maybe there's not enough heat to keep the yeast happy and busy. Maybe this is where the "homebrew flavour you refer to comes from.

Have you managed to let any of your bottled beers last to the 6 or 8 weeks, from bottling, stage??

I went through something similar. My first seven or eight batches were extract and they all had this similar "off" flavor. I hunted it down and tried different things with each batch. In the end, it turned out to be chloramine in my water supply. Since I started brewing using RO water and building my own water profile, that strange off taste has disappeared.

Thanks for all of the tips guys, I will make sure to give these a shot. In particular, I think the temperature and aging might be the issue. I keep my house at 66, so my basement is even cooler than that. During active attenuation my fermometers usually say 62-64 which is the lower end of the temp. scale.

I haven't let my bottles age past 3 weeks prior to chilling. For bottle aging, does it have to be at room temperature? I would assume the beer can't really age much once chilled because the yeast will go dormant, is that correct? Is my basement too cold to continue aging effectively?

One other over looked problem is the "flavored extract". I didn't get it at first but it came down to it. Im talking about LME. Some styles call for a special base malt and can see it being used. For the most part IPA,APA,blonds etc i use a ultra light LME. I use the steeping grains for the flavor and color "outside the hops".

Once i got away from pre packaged box kits. Started doing late additions with the extract. And using the steeping grains to give me the profile im looking for. I havent had any problems with extract brewing.

Looks like most of your batches are IPAs or hoppy pale ales. They are going to taste similar.

If I were to bet, it's your water. Try doing a batch with RO water with no other changes to your process. Since you're not mashing, you don't need to be concerned as much with mineral content. By starting with a blank slate, you're going to know immediately (after the batch is finished, of course) if it's the water component.

BrewingGunner said:

Looks like most of your batches are IPAs or hoppy pale ales. They are going to taste similar.

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My thoughts exactly!

bobbyshambo21 said:

Thanks for all of the tips guys, I will make sure to give these a shot. In particular, I think the temperature and aging might be the issue. I keep my house at 66, so my basement is even cooler than that. During active attenuation my fermometers usually say 62-64 which is the lower end of the temp. scale.

I haven't let my bottles age past 3 weeks prior to chilling. For bottle aging, does it have to be at room temperature? I would assume the beer can't really age much once chilled because the yeast will go dormant, is that correct? Is my basement too cold to continue aging effectively?

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If by chilling you mean you're keeping them at fridge temps then yes, that will likely cause the yeast to go dormant. The temp. of your basement is lower than the recommended 70f but would be great for extended storage and the yeast will remain active, just work more slowly, so the beer will still condition/age.

If I had to guess I would say its your water, and specifically chlorine/chloramine being the culprit. Even more so with a partial boil. Especially, if you don't use a filter and/or Camden Tablets. 1/2 a tablet can treat 10gallons of water in seconds. Once I started using Campden Tabs my brew improved tremendously, and then once I started filtering my water it improved even more.

Another suggestion, take your homebrew to a homebrew club meeting in the area and get someone that is BJCP certified to taste and diagnose the issue. Ever time I have been hung up or confused as to why a particular beer doesn't taste right, this always help. Don't always trust the guys at the homebrew store, they can be helpful, but unless they are BJCP certified or you know them personally as a go to person, than they don't really have the training/education to pick up and distinguish the subtleties.

Keep it up, I know its frustrating, but when you finally nail the issue, you will never turn back.

RmikeVT said:

If I had to guess I would say its your was water, and specifically chlorine/chloramine being the culprit.

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I've seen this brought up a few times, but OP never once mentioned a bandaid flavor, or medicinal off-flavors, or any of those characteristics that are common to chlorine or chloramine.

What he did describe was brews that tasted similar, then listed 6 kits that are all very similar styles. Case closed?

I think an easy suggestion would be to branch out and try a kit of a different style - give a brown ale a try, or a porter, or a red ale. But if you stick with hop forward pale ales and IPA's, everything's going to taste like a hop forward pale ale or IPA.

stratslinger said:

I think an easy suggestion would be to branch out and try a kit of a different style - give a brown ale a try, or a porter, or a red ale. But if you stick with hop forward pale ales and IPA's, everything's going to taste like a hop forward pale ale or IPA.

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Isn't one of them he listed a red/amber??

wouldn't using the same yeast for each contribute to this issue?

I'll agree with everyone saying that you are brewing a similar style over and over. Why don't you branch out? Looks like you're using Northern Brewer kits for the most part, you could try their Caribou Slobber (brown ale) or ESB? Those are 2 kits I've had good success with simply using their kit and instructions.

The other factor (to a lessor extent) is probably a little homebrew twang. I had this issue too until I went all grain. However, improving your processes, using less boil time for LME and watching your fermentation temps can lessen this effect.

Happy brewing!

I appreciate all of the posts, however, I think it's too simple to say that "you're brewing the same type of beer, of course they're going to taste the same." Pick your favorite style of beer, couldn't you put two commercial craft brews (I know, contradiction, but you get the idea) side by side and taste the difference? I drink mostly hop forward beers and have been for several years now, I could tell you the difference in taste between many of the IPA's I drink. With that said, I can taste the difference in the beer kits themselves, as they are made from different steeping grains and hops. As someone else pointed out, one of the beers was a red, and another was a wheat (although hop forward.) I understand that with extract brews, you will not have the type of control as you would with AG, nor am I expecting a night and day comparison between different kits of the same style. I am merely trying to solve why I can buy a beer at the store and it is amazing, I brew a beer at home, and it's just alright.

I guess I must just be experiencing extract "twang" as some people suggested. I had only heard this term in passing, but I checked it out on HBT and it sounds like that may be the case. Can "twang" be eliminated all together from extract brewing? Or will I have to go partial mash or AG?

I do really appreciate the help though, not to minimize anyone's contributions. I will for sure try experimenting with the water, aging and fermentation temps. I also think doing full boils may help my problem from things I just read on other posts regarding twang. I do have another question though. A couple people have mentioned doing late additions of the LME. From what I understand this accomplishes 2 things. 1) Helps improve color of extract brews, i.e. you can make them lighter. 2) Less time in the boil helps decrease the possibility of the LME caramelizing? Is this correct, are there any other benefits/ motives regarding late LME additions.

To be clear, both DME and LME benefit from late additions in the boil. Night and day, really.

I'm a beer specialist at a huge liquor store here in central Connecticut, and I've had many many different commercial beers. Probably in the hundreds. The two extract brews (my first and second respectively) have been a great success and have fantastic flavor that rival 90 percent of the beers I can purchase at the store. I'm a ways off from a sea hag or a bigfoot but they are darn enjoyable! You can totally do it too.

My last one was the following recipe:
6 lbs extra pale DME (15 min boil)
1 lb caramel malt (40 L steeped 20 mins @ 170 F)
1 oz perle hops for each boil time (60, 15, 0) (3 oz total)
40 IBUs
OG 1.055 TG 1.01

You can use what ever hops you want. I just wanted to try something different than what was on the shelves.

Good luck man!

I've had great extract results using spring water in the partial boil and topping off with distilled.

My experiance is about 15 all grain brews, and now I've just completed 2 extract and they taste just as good if not better than the all grain.

In my all grain I have done ro water pH and mineral balancing and even still the spring water extract tastes just as good.

I think your fermentation temps are fine, and if anything will produce less off flavor. Lower temps are usually best as long as your fermentation goes to completion.

Northern Brewer kits are fantastic. My first dozen brews were with those kits. After about 3 brews I found the same problem. similar taste. This is where the ART of brewing comes to play. The kits give you a fantastic base, but i feel the extract kits are particularly designed to give you the BASE for a good beer, but it is up to you to tweak it and make it great! Assuming everything else is fine, and it appears that it is from your post, i'd be tempted to step out and modify some of these kits, extra hops here or there. You love IPAs, they are my favorite too, so there is a LOT you can do with hopbursting, dry hopping and kettle hopping to really change your brew.
That said, i've brewed Caribou Slobber about 6 times, it's a solid brew that everyone of my friends enjoys. But i've tweaked a few things from the first iteration and now it is better.
I fully second and third leaving the beer on the yeast for at least 3 weeks, longer for big gravity beers. It really helps mature the beer and i found that stopping short at 2 weeks made the Slobber taste weak and flat and sweet. Others have mentioned raising the temps at the end of fermentation to help "clean up" the beer, this will help change the flavor profile of your beers too.
There is a wealth of experience on this forum and every one of us is learning a little every day. All of the changes i've made in my beer have come from these forums and a bit of trial and error, it makes for better beer and more fun. Enjoy the art of brewing.

I brew alot of pale ales and ipa's and have found that most of my beers turn the corner after 4-5 weeks in the bottle. I am currently drinking an Austin partial mash ipa. I tried one at 2 weeks then again at three weeks and was a bit dissappointed. But after 5 weeks since bottling, the last 10 days in the fridge, it has developed a creamy smoothness and lost that "home brew" character. It now taste like something you would buy rather than something I cobbled together in the kitchen.

I have brewed quite a few kits from NB and find that the longer left in the bottle the better they taste.

clancey123 said:

I have brewed quite a few kits from NB and find that the longer left in the bottle the better they taste.

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It's been my experience that NB, and many other Homebrew shops underestimate the time needed. I have good pipeline going so most of beers are 10 to 16 weeks along when I tap them. I think this is also one of the reasons that I have not encountered "extract twang" when I was doing extracts.