Yeast Test Underway

Finally got my yeast test underway that I had hoped to start 2 months ago. Oh well, better late than never in this case.

I wanted to try different yeast just to broaden my horizons on what to expect with different flavors that may come from them. I started my base test doing a traditional mead. All 3 were started the exact same.

- 3.5 lbs wildflower honey (all from the same barrel)
- 1 gallon of ozarka water
- 1/2 tsp Super Ferment (more to add staggered)
well mixed and aerated in 3 different primary containers.
OG - 1.100

Then each batch was given a different yeast. Each one was put hydrated in 1/2 cup warm water with a little Go Ferm to get them started.
Yeast:
Lalvin Clos
Lalvin D21
Lalvin BA-11

Once these get into secondaries, I am planning on starting another 3 with Lalvin R2, Rhone 4600 and K1V1116.

Hope it gives some good results.

I'm looking forward to the results. I'm rather skeptical about the importance of yeast to the flavor of the final product.

I'm looking forward to the results. I'm rather skeptical about the importance of yeast to the flavor of the final product.

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Do you mean mead only or have you never tried different yeasts before. I have never tested mead but with ciders it changes the flavour dramatically. Its an extremely important part of brewing.

waxer said:

Do you mean mead only or have you never tried different yeasts before. I have never tested mead but with ciders it changes the flavour dramatically. Its an extremely important part of brewing.

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+1 ... I can see some of what SouthernGorilla is saying; indeed many of the wine yeasts that we use to make mead with are fairly neutral in their flavor contribution, but try making a mead w/ a Belgian strain, and you'll notice the difference! There is a big difference in cider/cyser too...I've done cyser and cider with Wyeast Dry strain, 71B, and White Labs English Cider strain, and they are all different (WLP 775 being, by far, the best!)

I'm not terribly familiar with many of the strains the OP is using, but I'll bet there's a perceivable difference in at least one or two of the different batches...

biochemedic said:

+1 ... I can see some of what SouthernGorilla is saying; indeed many of the wine yeasts that we use to make mead with are fairly neutral in their flavor contribution, but try making a mead w/ a Belgian strain, and you'll notice the difference! There is a big difference in cider/cyser too...I've done cyser and cider with Wyeast Dry strain, 71B, and White Labs English Cider strain, and they are all different (WLP 775 being, by far, the best!)

I'm not terribly familiar with many of the strains the OP is using, but I'll bet there's a perceivable difference in at least one or two of the different batches...

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Dunno about the more obscure ones, but for traditionals, D21 and K1-V1116 are brilliant. Not the same in character, but not that far apart either. Probably says more about the 2 regions they're isolated from, and that theyre only what ? a 100 or so km's apart......

In a wine, a show mead, or a standard beer the yeast may play a noticeable role in the flavor. Mainly because there aren't many factors affecting the flavor. But as soon as you start adding fruit, herbs, spices, or pixie dust to the mix the yeast is going to get lost in the background.

And some of the difference is not the fault of the yeast itself. I have the same yeast, EC-1118, in two different batches right now. For whatever reason, one batch is tasting estery and acidic while the other is perfectly potable right now. If I had only used EC-1118 in the estery batch I would likely end up thinking the yeast was prone to producing heavy esters. But since I've seen the yeast can also produce clean flavors I know there must be some other factor causing the esters.

Another way to look at it is that trappist yeast produce trappist ales because they are almost always used with the ingredients and conditions required for trappist ales. Has anybody ever used a trappist yeast to make a porter? Would you notice the difference? I don't know. Maybe. The only way to find out would be to do it.

Having said all that, I am truly curious to see what happens with this test. I'm planning a test of my own soon. I'm going to do a low-gravity mead lager just to see what happens. Lager yeast, cold fermentation, and an actual lager phase.

See I won't use champagne yeast routinely as I find they just blow too much of the aromatics and more subtle flavour compounds straight out the airlock.......

Yet these fools at HBS continue to recommend it on the presumption that a honey must need a brutal yeast.

They're usually wrong as they, invariably, know bugger all about meads and mead making.

Because of the subtleties of the different flavors is why I am working with a traditional mead. If I have that basis down, I am thinking that if a certain yeast has more citrus flavors for example, it might be good later in an orange mead or something similar.

Also why I am trying a couple that don't ever seem to come up in mead making discussions such as the Clos. If it brings a new flavor into it, or more importantly enhances certain flavor aspects, I can now make mead that is just that touch better. At least hopefully.

SouthernGorilla said:

In a wine, a show mead, or a standard beer the yeast may play a noticeable role in the flavor. Mainly because there aren't many factors affecting the flavor. But as soon as you start adding fruit, herbs, spices, or pixie dust to the mix the yeast is going to get lost in the background.

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I think your generalizations may be partially true, but it definitely depends on the yeast. For many relatively neutral yeasts, you are probably correct, and that's one reason to use a neutral yeast -- to allow the other parts of a brew to be dominant. Guarantee that if you use certain yeasts (particularly the Belgian strains, or any saison yeast, hefe strains, or any other yeast that has a notable character, you will notice the difference compared with something neutral such as Wyeast Dry Mead strain or US-05, no matter what else you have added. My "belgeglin" mead is made with bitter orange and coriander seed, and you can still taste the flavor contributions from the Wyeast 3711 used to ferment it...

SouthernGorilla said:

And some of the difference is not the fault of the yeast itself. I have the same yeast, EC-1118, in two different batches right now. For whatever reason, one batch is tasting estery and acidic while the other is perfectly potable right now. If I had only used EC-1118 in the estery batch I would likely end up thinking the yeast was prone to producing heavy esters. But since I've seen the yeast can also produce clean flavors I know there must be some other factor causing the esters.

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Yes, yeast can behave differently in differing conditions...and this underscores the importance of fermentation management: must oxygenation, proper pitch rates, rehydration of dry yeast, nutrient additions, temp control, degassing......

SouthernGorilla said:

Another way to look at it is that trappist yeast produce trappist ales because they are almost always used with the ingredients and conditions required for trappist ales. Has anybody ever used a trappist yeast to make a porter? Would you notice the difference? I don't know. Maybe. The only way to find out would be to do it.

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And if you took a Trappist ale wort and fermented it with WLP001, it would not be a Trappist ale...it would probably be a fine beer, but it wouldn't be anything like if you used WLP500. I haven't personally used a Trappist ale to make a porter, but I have tasted commercial stout made with a Belgian yeast strain, and it is very different than a "regular" stout. I have made a Belgian IPA with Wyeast 1214 and wort from a recipe designed to generate a west coast style IPA...That yeast's character was definitely part of that beer's flavor profile...

SouthernGorilla said:

Having said all that, I am truly curious to see what happens with this test. I'm planning a test of my own soon. I'm going to do a low-gravity mead lager just to see what happens. Lager yeast, cold fermentation, and an actual lager phase.

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I think this is a great idea...since the lager strains/cooler fermentation minimize expression of esters and other yeast byproducts, lager beers are especially good at making malt flavors shine...I would suspect it would do the same for honey!

I know I've been ranting a bit, but I think you're underestimating the importance of yeast as an actual ingredient, and what it can contribute to the flavor of the finished product

And BTW, props to the OP for doing this experiment...please be sure to post some results eventually...hopefully you have a few people with good palates who can help you do some blinded testing.

Update:
After 48 hours (and a broken hydrometer), things are starting off slow. I am sure some of the more experienced mead makers on here will be able to point out improvements in steps, but here is where it stands.

Each one has been degassed, and had nutrients added and are in a room the has an ambient temp about 67-68 degrees.

Clos yeast: 1.096. Little has changed in the gravity but there was a fair amount of bubbles during the degassing process. It smelled of honey. Added 1/4 tsp Super Ferment.

D21 yeast: 1.092. A touch less than the Clos in the amount of bubbles during degassing. Smelled some of honey but there was also a very sharp smell as well. After degassing the sharpness went away. Added 1/4 tsp Super Ferment.

BA-11: 1.083. A noticeable drop in the specific gravity. However the degassing produced less bubbles than the other two. The smell of this one was more dull (maybe a sulfer touch but could not easily identify). It too went away after the degassing leaving more honey scent. Added 1/2 tsp Super Ferment as the Lalvin site recommends higher nitrogen for this yeast than the other two.

Plan to check back with them tonight for a quick degassing and again tomorrow with more readings.

I'd say that's a statistically significant difference between the fastest and slowest yeast. Definitely interesting.

Yeah, hoping they are just slow starters. All 3 seemed good when they were rehydrated. Also all 3 are gassing out when stirred. Will do my next SG check tomorrow.

After 4 days:
The BA-11 is down to 1.054 and smelling pretty good.

The D21 is down to 1.076 with a sharp smell before degassing. More neutral honey after degassing.

The Clos passed the D21 at 1.070. Had almost a dull sweet and sour smell before degassing. Less noticeably after.

I am planning on waiting till the primary is closer to done before tasting, then doing tastings as they age.

After 20 days:
The BA-11 is at 1.016. It is a nice bright yellow but not clear. It has a crisp taste but not hot of alcohol. There was a slight secondary flavor almost like a lightly bitter fruit. Not really sure how to describe it better. The taste was good so far for 3 weeks old. The thing that really stood out was that it had very little smell to it. There was a hint of honey but reallyhad to breath deep.

The D-21 is at 1.044. Similar in appearance to the BA-11, but that is it. It had a clean (no aftertaste) honey taste but also a touch sourish. So-so flavor at this point. It had a bland sweet smell to it but not a honey smell. Also not the most appetizing but not repulsive either.

The Clos is at 1.028. A little more cloudy than the other two. It has a crisp clean honey (a little hot) taste with a slight dull aftertaste (yeasty maybe). It smells of honey and alcohol.

Once they stabilize and start to clear a little, I will transfer to a secondary carboy for each. I hope the D-21 does not take forever to drop down since it is going slower than the others. It is interesting in how different they are considering the honey was all from the same batch. I still have another 12 lbs from that batch for 3 more yeast types to go into once I empty these primaries.

Haven't been on in a while, but wanted to update this thread now that a little time has passed. I have upped it to 6 different yeasts being done and spent some time earlier today checking flavors and stabilising them.

It was very interesting as all 6 had very different flavors even though they used the same steps, same room temps and wildflower honey all from the same batch.

I don't know proper terms for describing flavors, so this is based on my own interpretations. I could probably translate it to another term if anyone has questions about it.

Almost 7 months old:
A - Lalvin Clos - 1.002 - Had a clean dry neutral taste, light body not quite watery, little flavor, still had a very small aftertaste almost like it was cooked. It still had CO2 bubbles in it which was different from all the others.

B - Lalvin D-21 - 1.006 - This was the clearest, though all could read through a small glass of it. Crisp taste, light but touch of fruit (maybe applish but not in a bad way), slight aftertaste.

C - Lalvin BA-11 - 1.000 - Darker than others. Full body taste almost like a caramelized flavor added (and smell). Not a bad taste but definitely different - kind of like a stout vs an amber or lager for the other 5.


5 months old:
D - K1-V1116 - 1.001 - Crisp taste, light honey taste, felt med body in the mouth, not watery but not strong flavor.

E - Lalvin R2 - 1.011 - Crisp clean taste, taste like honey mead should be expected to taste if never tried one, a nice balance of honey without overly sweet or thick. Similar to K1V but richer flavor. I was ready to drink a full glass of it. SG is higher and should be taken into account.

F - Lalvin Rhone 4600 - 0.999 - This one was the fruitiest in flavors. Had a full taste to it.


So far I have not planned to backsweeten in case it affects the balance of the yeast flavors (I may change my mind). Some of them probably would benefit from backsweetening. At least for me as I prefer meads in the 1.010 - 1.020 range.