saving money with brewing

Ok so i am looking into getting into brewing and was wondering on the savings of making beer vs buying it. I know equipment purchases and upgrades kind of negate any savings you would gain but if equipment was not in the equation how much do you think you save with brewing clone type beers? such as a fat tire clone.

The best quote I ever read on the topic of brewing to save money went something like this:

"Home brewing to save money on beer is like buying a boat to save money on fish."

If you sole goal is to save money, then you can do it, but you won't have great beer. Just buy canned extract kits on sale, boil it on your stove, and bottle-carb. You'll have dirt-cheap beer with less than $100 investment in equipment.

For a little more investment ($500-ish?) you can move to a BIAB setup and do small-batch brewing or partial-mash full boils.

Or you can spend $2,000 on a complete all-grain setup with kegging. You'll make great beer, but you won't live long enough to recoup what you spent in beer savings (unless you drink a lot more beer). In this case, you'd do it because it's a fun, rewarding hobby, rather than to save money.

As I once read on this forum (not sure who said it) Buying brewing equipment to save money on beer is like buying a boat to save money on fish. I know that I've personally spent a lot more to make beer, than to just go buy some. It's impossible to take equipment out of the equation. Just do it for the enjoyment.

^ great minds think alike, and at the same time.

I'm still extremely small-scale and just started doing AG, but I've got it down to about $1 per pint for my IPAs. That beats store prices and the beer is better, IMHO (can't get Pliny here...). The equipment cost is rather non-negligible, though. I'm already several hundred into it and I haven't even built a kegerator yet. I'm going the cheap route, too - turkey fryer, cooler mashtun conversion, homemade wort chiller, bottling in old Grolsch bottles.

Short answer - do it! Just don't expect to actually "save" money anytime soon.

I wouldn't count on saving much money, at least not in the short term. I mean, it's absolutely possible if you keep gear purchases down - but (and I know I'm generalizing here) most people on here will agree that this is easier said than done.

Having said that though, once you get equipment that you're happy with (this happens right? It stops eventually?), ingredients will probably cost you between $20 and $40 per 5 gallons of beer, so there are technically some savings.

Just watch out though - what starts as "2 cases of craft would cost me like $90...I'm saving tons of cash!", usually ends up with the addendum "...but if I bought that <insert beer gadget here> I could make some truly delicious goodness..."

dm1217 said:

As I once read on this forum (not sure who said it) Buying brewing equipment to save money on beer is like buying a boat to save money on fish. I know that I've personally spent a lot more to make beer, than to just go buy some. It's impossible to take equipment out of the equation. Just do it for the enjoyment.

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This is fair enough analogy but I find I only buy fish about twice a month...

kombat said:

If you sole goal is to save money, then you can do it, but you won't have great beer. Just buy canned extract kits on sale, boil it on your stove, and bottle-carb. You'll have dirt-cheap beer with less than $100 investment in equipment..

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Yes and there are medal winners at contests who are using canned wort making crap beer, that's why they win medals.

/rant

Ok, I do extract brewing. Well technically extract with steeping grains. I do it on my electric stove and top off etc. If an All Grain (AG) setup is making everything from scratch, I'm basiclaly getting 'boxed meals' and making them at home. And mostly I find it better tasting than store beer, HOWEVER I have different tastebuds then others, so to them it may taste terrible.

With that said, I'm spening no more than about $.75 per bottle ($4/6pack 12oz). So quickly this can save money over buying. I bought a 4 gallon pot for around $20 (also can use it for salt potatoes and other large boils). And then my brewing gear was used and gotten for about 1/2 normal. To start on 5 gallon batches, I probably spent less than 100, and all told I've spent less than $500.

I've seen some All grain people say they've gotten their per bottle (12oz) cost down in the $.30 range (~$2/6pack). This is far less than craft beer. (usualy $10/6?) But ingenerally we are not less than BMC.

This is a hobby, so I could golf and then drink beer at 19th hole. That would cost more. Again, this is only ingredients, not anything like time and fuel let along equipment.

You don't need all that brewing bling to make good beer & save money. The only things I buy now are the little bits that make things easier or faster. no fancy kettles with sight glasses guages & all that meth lab looking stuff. *i had to put that in there,Cops got curious with mine once,lolz.* Anywho,I do PB/PM BIAB in the same 5G SS stock pot I've been using since my 2nd brew. Just added a cake cooling rack & a 5G paint strainer bag. I think I might have $600 in the whole shootin match,if that. I can make a 5G partial mash pale ale with local spring water & washed yeast for about $15.50! AG can get even lower if you buy in bulk & all that. But $15-$25 is pretty good to me on average. So you can save money if you don't go stark ravin bersack buyin all the bling in sight. I don't have a particular desire to do so myself. Oh sure,that SS conical with heat & cold digitally controlled blanket would be major T&A,but meh...maybe someday...

Here is a link to a Basic Brewing Radio podcast on saving money with home brewing. Some good ideas and interesting perspective. Best idea is to brew more and more often....

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/8/1/1/811304...1ce3dae902ea1d01ce813ed9cc58a1d5&c_id=1453080

I did my first few batches of all grain on a small scale biab method which didn't cost too much in equipment. Equipment only got expensive when I upped my volumes and the number of beers I brewed at once. I found the following site very useful http://www.mashspargeboil.com/complete-guide-to-all-grain-brewing/. The other big money saver at first is recycling bottles rather than buying new bottles or kegging.

yeah i know its unrealistic i was just curious.

Like Unionrdr said you do not need the bling to make excellent beer. I started with less than a 100 bucks and that included the grain for my first batch. Granted I had alot of things already around the house but I brewed 6 gallon batches with that rig forever and still use it except for the mash tun that I upgraded to a ten gallon a few months ago.

Alot of your cost is going to be what you drink or the style. I like to drink but not end up drunk so I brew low gravity beers. My winter beers like the moose drool clone run about 15 bucks for 6 gallons and the summer brews like the 3C that I tweaked run about 10 bucks for 6 gallons. If you enjoy high gravity hop bombs you will pay much more for your beer.

This hobby is great because you can spend as much as you want or stay minimal and make as good a beer as the guys who spend tons of cash. For me it is my way of sticking it to the man. Thats right I love the fact I do not pay taxes other than sales tax on my grain.

i bought a Coopers brewing kit for $100. it came with any Coopers canned extract i wanted. just brewing that i broke even vs. buying store bought beer. 24 bottles of Coors light in Canada is about $40. i can buy a Coopers can and the brew enhancer for $20-22. all i need is the Coopers brewing gear and a pot that holds 1-2 gallons of water.

i bought a 5gal pot ($30)and do partial extract now. most expensive kit i've done right now is Yoopers recipe for DFH 60 and it was $32. it's turned out great and is much better then most commercial beers sold at a beer store in Ontario.

so for those who say you don't save money, i say in Canada you sure do!!!

ACbrewer said:

Yes and there are medal winners at contests who are using canned wort making crap beer, that's why they win medals.

/rant

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I did say "Just buy canned extract kits on sale," meaning they're approaching or past their expiry date. I guess I should have been clearer - I certainly didn't mean to imply that you can't make great beer from fresh extract and high-quality yeast.

If the goal is to save money, then buying outdated canned extract kits on sale is the way to do it. Just don't expect Pliny the Elder from it.

You can certainly save money if you don't go crazy -- even if you want to brew all grain. My "brewing" equipment cost me less than $500 -- and that includes 5 fermenters and an all grain cooler set up. My average cost per batch hovers around $15-$20 (I make 5% ABV beers that are not heavily hopped). So that is about 30 to 40 cents per beer. If you do the math, at this cost per beer, it is possible to recoup the $500 investment in brewing equipment pretty quickly (depending on how much you drink).

BUT, I will never recoup my costs for at least three reasons. First, I now drink considerably more beer than I did before I brewed. Not alcoholic levels, but I now pretty much have a beer or two every night. Second, my $500 is misleading because I intentionally left out my kegging equipment. Between the used kegerator, parts to convert it to a three tap corny keg system, 6 kegs, 3 CO2 tanks, 2 regulators, and tubing, I have close to $1,000 invested. Third, I am constantly looking at the fancy brew stand set ups. Sooner or later, I expect I will spring for one of those.

One other things that I forgot was this. For me homebrewing has resulting in a greater cost. Where I might have before had 1 or 2 beers in a given period of time, I'm likely to make a batch. Thus I went from about 16.9oz of craft beer (by the bottle $$$ stuff) to 50+ bottles that I HB... but the cost of 1 or 2 bottles of the $$$ stuff is still less than the HB, so I'm spending more money on 'ingredients' >shrugg< It is that whole high price low volume v low price high volume, my volume went WAY up.

And I credit my wife who got me into HB...

"I'll save money" is a great argument to use with SWMBO. She might even buy it.

kombat said:

I did say "Just buy canned extract kits on sale," meaning they're approaching or past their expiry date. I guess I should have been clearer - I certainly didn't mean to imply that you can't make great beer from fresh extract and high-quality yeast.

If the goal is to save money, then buying outdated canned extract kits on sale is the way to do it. Just don't expect Pliny the Elder from it.

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The same can happen with an old batch of grain, can it not? I have made some good beer with extract, so good that I haven't really considered moving to a BIAB set up yet or even partial mash. I am still a newbie so maybe my uncertainly and lack of knowledge on the process plays a part too.

As far as price I can buy a simple American Amber recipe for $26 and get 5 gal of beer, which is over 50 12oz beers. That comes out to roughly .50 cents a beer, how is that not saving money when a good Amber beer in the store costs $6-8 dollars for a six pack? You can spend $50 on a nice IPA recipe and still only pay $1 a beer, which could cost $4-8 in a bar. I recently went to Applebee's and ordered a Lagunitas IPA, it cost $6 :0 I think there is an extract recipe floating around some where that would cost less than $45 to make, thats less than $1 a beer.

I agree. My first IPA came out to 57c per bottle on a 6 gallon AE brew. But as I posted earlier,you could go to PM with just a 5G paint strainer bag & a cake cooling rack to fit the bottom of the kettle. The cake rack keeps the bag & grains off the bottom of the kettle. There's enough info on here that I finally took the plung & tried PB/PM BIAB. My 5th one is fermenting now. It's def easy once you learn the couple things that you need to add to your process.

To be honest, I'm surprised how *in*expensive a hobby home brewing is. In all seriousness, it's the cheapest serial obsession (I don't do hobbies; I do serial obsessions) I've ever had. But the ingredients are kind of expensive. In all (and *very* roughly) I'd say the beers are about .80 cents on the dollar compared to buying them at my grocery store but even compared to a bargain bin outlet. (You can't compare to a restaurant or bar of course). It's definitely a wash compared to the work and potential waste and bad batch and overhead (minimal overhead but overhead none-the-less). And a wash is really bad returns compared with nearly any other do-it-yourself product.

Basically you don't lose money making your own beer but that's about it.

(And, come on, beer is an indulgent comfort item. You don't plan to save money on indulgent comfort items.)

I think it is all about the individual and what their expectations are. I brew a light summer ale for 10 bucks that gets me 60 beers. Buy that in a store around here in the comparable bud light version and you pay 20 bucks for a 30 pack. It would cost 40 bucks to buy as much beer as I made for 10 bucks.

And the best part is I like the beer.

Yeah,long & short,that's the crux of it. I have two batches of light & dark hybrid lagers that didn't cost much to produce. I think it all comes down to what you use & how. But partial mash def cuts out a lot of up front costs by reducing the amount of extract used. Plus the flavor & aroma complexities can be toyed with.

This seems to be discussed on here on a regular basis. And the arguments always seem to be the same. If you are careful with equipment costs and don't factor in your own time to brew, you certainly can save some money brewing. My belief though is saving money should not be your goal. Your goal should be to produce tasty beer that you enjoy drinking. (at least in the US, seems Canada is quite a bit more expensive for beer) Don't get me wrong. I understand the idea of saving money by brewing, it's one fo the reasons I started brewing myself. But, when it's all said and done, if cheap beer is your only goal, there are plenty of store-bought options that are cheaper than you'll ever be able to make. I just think if you get caught up too much on price and saving a buck, you are kind of closing yourself off to the world of experimentation and to me, that's where the fun in this hobby is at.

woozy said:

To be honest, I'm surprised how *in*expensive a hobby home brewing is. In all seriousness, it's the cheapest serial obsession (I don't do hobbies; I do serial obsessions) I've ever had. But the ingredients are kind of expensive. In all (and *very* roughly) I'd say the beers are about .80 cents on the dollar compared to buying them at my grocery store but even compared to a bargain bin outlet. (You can't compare to a restaurant or bar of course). It's definitely a wash compared to the work and potential waste and bad batch and overhead (minimal overhead but overhead none-the-less). And a wash is really bad returns compared with nearly any other do-it-yourself product.

Basically you don't lose money making your own beer but that's about it.

(And, come on, beer is an indulgent comfort item. You don't plan to save money on indulgent comfort items.)

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If you're beer turns out costing you .80 cents per bottle, you should go in to business, and teach me your secrets.

I buy grain in bulk, as well as hops by the pound, and of course I grow quite a few hops as well. I rinse and reuse yeast, and am pretty thrifty.

I can make a 10 gallon batch of cream ale for about $16. That's 100 bottles, give or take, so it's very cheap to make that beer.

Other beers may use more grain and hops, and cost $30 for 10 gallons. Still pretty inexpensive.

Of course, the equipment costs were pretty substantial because I am very geeky and like things like a pH meter, an all electric system, etc.

Overall, though, I spend more than I save by making my own.

Still, I rarely buy beer and when we were in Texas I didn't brew and when we ran out of homebrew, buying $9+ six packs added up quick! I got really used to having quality beer on tap all the time and missed it when it was gone.

Sure you can save money! Yes, the equipment is expensive in the beginning (for mid level AG setup) but I justify it as thus. That cost is for my hobby of brewing, same as i'd spend to get into any other hobby. Even if you insist on calculating the cost of your product including this, it will eventually pay for itself.

When you look at the cost of the ingredients and consumables like propane and water etc.. it is still far cheaper than craft beer. I don't count my time invested either, that's the hobby part. Most of my batches, without trying to minimize cost, have been about $4-$6/6pack, in the store, the comparable beer would be at least $10. So yeah, there's a savings.

If you get into it for savings and not the fun of it, the savings may not be enough to sway you. You will start considering the time it takes to produce a batch and it won't be worth it. If you start because it's fun and YOU can brew the beer YOU want to drink, then yeah, do it, a side effect is cheaper beer.....just don't do it with that as the main goal.

First off, this is a hobby that I enjoy, it rewards me with good times, interesting friends, and delicious beer. I am however not one that likes to spend a ton of money if I can help it, so I have done the following things to reduce my brewing costs (it's actually become PART of the hobby to see how low of a cost I can brew a great beer):

* group grain buys to lower costs of ingredients
* wash yeast to lower costs of ingredients
* grow hops to lower costs of ingredients
* build my own equipment (stir plate, brew stand, chillers, etc) to lower cost on equipment
* trade beers with other homebrewers to get more variety at no additional cost
* use natural gas to lower energy costs

So there are things you can do to make the hobby less expensive, which I think is part of the allure for me. I am an engineer so I like building stuff. I can brew a beer for under 50 cents a bottle these days if I try, not counting equipment costs or salary for the brewer (grin).

I agree with others that the allure of upgrading and improving your equipment and process, and thus your end result of beer hurts the bottom line. Just keep in mind it is a hobby, something we enjoy doing, and is worth the cost. It is fun to do (except cleanup...I despise that part...), it provides great side benefits like new friends and delicious malty, hoppy beverages, and you get to feel that pride when someone drinks one of your beers and can't believe that YOU made it! you can't put a price tag on that...

Cheers!

I think I'm in less than $600 on everything I've bought to make beer and wine. That's including a 5 cubic ft chest freezer. I haven't bought any new stuff in a while. I also bought everything brand new so I could have done it cheaper. I think I'm well past the break even point if I had to buy the amount of beer/wine/cider/wine-based cocktails I've made with this setup.

The thing is though, I would never have bought (and drank and given away) that much if I had to pay store prices. So if you compare the cost of my first year of brewing (equipment/ingrdients) to the amount I spent on alcoholic beverages the year before I don't think I saved much if anything.

But now that I have that first year behind me I am considering the equipment paid off and will only consider ingredients and infrequent gear replacement as the ongoing cost. My most expensive beer to date worked out to less than a buck a bottle compared to ~$2 a bottle for the cheapest domestic available. I'm happy with that.

I know I have less than 500 in equipment. That includes 3 6 gal primaries, 2 secondaries. A kegerator and 2 kegs, a grain mill, a keggle, and a mash tun.Now a lot of it I've been patient with and scored freebies or used stuff I had at home already.

It's a hobby, so I will spend a few bucks on it, I don't think I'm saving any money but it has been years since I last calculated. When I compare brewing with my weekly golf habit, it is my cheapest hobby . I enjoy both so the expense is a nonissue for me.

m_stodd said:

If you're beer turns out costing you .80 cents per bottle, you should go in to business, and teach me your secrets.

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I said .80 cents *on the dollar* and... oh, I get it... 8/10 of a cent or $0.008 ... okay, ha-ha. Considering that is one of my pet peeves I'm surprised I made that error. But still, I didn't say I was making beer for .80 *dollars* a bottle; I said I was making beer for about 80% what beer costs at my grocery store.

Clonefan94 said:

Your goal should be to produce tasty beer that you enjoy drinking.

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Nonsense! Your goal should be having fun. And any-one who disagrees with me is wrong and ignorant and evil and wasting his and everyone else's time. (Fisticuffs at dawn, M.F., fisticuffs at dawn. I demand satisfaction.)

===
Yes, you can save money brewing beer but you can also waste money brewing beer. Someone once said about sailing that you can simulate the experience by standing in a shower in your clothes and tearing up fifty-dollar bills. I think every hobby likes to joke about itself like that but it applies pretty weakly to brewing. Brewing *is* relatively cheap (as far as hobbies go).


But taking the whole experience to do a cost comparison is really futile. Basically the *best* way to save money on beer is to stop drinking.

Yup,everything works if ya let it. You're limited only by your imagination & $.

DenverUSMC said:

When I compare brewing with my weekly golf habit, it is my cheapest hobby .

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How much money would do you suppose it would cost to have a professional place balls in holes? My wife has been nagging me that we have a bunch of holes that need balls put in them and I've been promising her I'll get to them but I don't really like golf so maybe I'll spend a little extra to get some-one else to do it for me.

As the challenged I reserve the right to weapons and I choose hot air balloons and blunderbusses. Yup that is right I watched the move the amazing men and their flying machines last night :cross:

On a serious note though brewing and bottling time for me is my time. I put the headphones on and just enjoy doing it. Kind of therapeutic in a way for me and I guess I must need a lot of therapy judging by the size of my pipeline

kombat said:

The best quote I ever read on the topic of brewing to save money went something like this:

"Home brewing to save money on beer is like buying a boat to save money on fish."

If you sole goal is to save money, then you can do it, but you won't have great beer. Just buy canned extract kits on sale, boil it on your stove, and bottle-carb. You'll have dirt-cheap beer with less than $100 investment in equipment.

For a little more investment ($500-ish?) you can move to a BIAB setup and do small-batch brewing or partial-mash full boils.

Or you can spend $2,000 on a complete all-grain setup with kegging. You'll make great beer, but you won't live long enough to recoup what you spent in beer savings (unless you drink a lot more beer). In this case, you'd do it because it's a fun, rewarding hobby, rather than to save money.

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I don't know where you live but if that's what it costs to do all grain there ill be sure to steer clear. I built my 3 tier from scrap lumber for the price of the screws. My 3 kegs were $50 each. My fridge was $50. I bought everything over a period of two years. Now I have 30 gallons of different beers on hand at any given time that rival major breweries. All grain is way cheaper than extract. When I started BIAB I had to buy a propane burner a stock pot and a paint strainer bag. Under $150 to start BIAB.

If you're paying that much then you have serious problems

The boat thing is pretty funny. I have had a boat(bust out another thousand). Total money pits

However Craft beers are going up. My area it is 10 12 bucks a 6 and some of the stuff like stone is 12 for a 4 pack. So I can see it as a bit of a savings.

woozy said:

I said .80 cents *on the dollar* and... oh, I get it... 8/10 of a cent or $0.008 ... okay, ha-ha. Considering that is one of my pet peeves I'm surprised I made that error. But still, I didn't say I was making beer for .80 *dollars* a bottle; I said I was making beer for about 80% what beer costs at my grocery store.

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Just giving you a hard time. If that's one of your pet peeves, google search 'cents vs dollars verizon'. Disclaimer: you might die of rage or laughter

JDGator said:

i bought a Coopers brewing kit for $100. it came with any Coopers canned extract i wanted. just brewing that i broke even vs. buying store bought beer. 24 bottles of Coors light in Canada is about $40.

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Taxes on beer just went up $1.95/12 so a 24 in Manitoba is now almost $47

Doing all grain I can brew 50 L of pale ale for about $60 including the propane for the boil.

it depends how you engage in the hobby and extremes.

are you trying to save money on $19.95 30 packs of natural light or $4-$5 singles?

do you start a hobby going wild buying the best possible stuff and use it twice a year?

do you slowly dig into a hobby over time upgrading (buying premade or building) and spend a lot of time doing it?

are you the guy that enjoys doing everything with nothing. "I has a bucket"
every hobby has them all.

blingy brewing equipment is cheaper than higher end RC toys, not even counting the stuff that flies.