So I ruined my first all grain batch!..

Hey HBT!

So I finally took the plunge into AG after only a couple of successful Extract kits and already "it" seems to have hit the fan. Brew day went well with the the "DIY" equipment I was using.. Standard cooler style mash tun... Copper coil immersion chiller.. Only piece that was a one off was the brew kettle, a converted fermenter using 2 kettle elements. (See pics)

The SG was better than expected for the recipe I was brewing which was an English pale ale. I got 1.064 as opposed to 1.054. The recipe recommended racking into secondary after 4 days which I did, but by then the gravity was already lower than the expected 1.015! Anyways I carried on, dry hopped I think 2 days before finish but the brew always smelt too sweet and had a real bad off flavour. I can only describe it as "beer" flavoured cotton candy after it had sit for a year :-D.

Any advice guys?

Personal observations:

1. Brew kettle not suitable? PP fermenter releasing nasty stuff??
2. I had to Substitute White labs Burton ale yeast with Wyeast English Ale smack pack due to availability.
3. Substituted Northern brewer hops for Styrian due to availability.

...looks good but tastes awful!

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Are those... electric heating elements... in... a PLASTIC... boil kettle?

I am so confused. It seems like directly exposing the wort to the elements would cause massive caramelization.

How long has this beer been aged? Are you bottle carbing or Kegging? If it is still green ( less than 3 weeks IMHO) then the flavor might not have had enough time to meld. RDWHAHB. Taste again in two weeks.

daksin said:

Are those... electric heating elements... in... a PLASTIC... boil kettle?

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X2. You boiled the wort in a plastic bucket???

I don't know what off flavor would be described as beer flavored cotton candy. Perhaps you can try to sample the beer again and reevaluate the flavor? Common off flavors can be found here, http://morebeer.com/themes/morewinepro/mmpdfs/mb/off_flavor.pdf.

A couple things that I noted:
1. Even if the beer reached it's FG number in four days, I would have left the beer in the primary for a little longer. The yeast can create off flavors during the fermentation process which they'll clean up toward the end of fermentation. At least that's my understanding.
2. What was your recipe, brewing process, and fermentation process? With the higher gravity than you anticipated, did you pitch enough yeast? Was the temperature controlled properly during fermentation?
3. Electrical heating elements in a plastic bucket seem weird. I don't think I've seen that in the US. Although, that's probably not your issue.

I also ask, did you boil for an hour in the plastic bucket? Other than that what temperature did you mash at and for how long. The wrong mash temperature will cause a lot of un-fermentable sugars which will make the beer sweet.

You have aged the beer for a year and have not figured out all grain brewing? I would have brewed at least another 8-12 batches in that time.

kh54s10 said:

You have aged the beer for a year and have not figured out all grain brewing? I would have brewed at least another 8-12 batches in that time.

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I think that the OP was saying that it tasted like "beer-flavored cotton candy that had sit for a year". He wasn't saying that the beer that he made sat for a year.

Devin said:

X2. You boiled the wort in a plastic bucket???

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I really want to hear the answer to this as well. I've never heard of anything like that before.

I always leave all my beers in primary for 3 weeks. Four days is much too soon regardless of the gravity.

You didn't talk about your sanitizing process at all. Was everything that touched the wort post-boil sanitized?

Devin said:

X2. You boiled the wort in a plastic bucket???

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Very commonly done that way in the UK. Electric elements (or heatsticks) in a HDPE bucket is something I've seen a number of times. I think it's rare to have personal sized propane tanks and turkey fryers in the UK.

That said, I don't know of the suitability of all types of plastic when heated, so that is definitely something to check on!

It sounds like the beer is very young?

HDPE is rated to 250F. It sure does get soft at around 190F, but the chemical engineers would have to talk about leeching and stuff at boiling.

Yooper said:

Very commonly done that way in the US.

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I have never seen it. Mashing, yes. Boiling, no.

Very well could be a non-issue, but plastic and heat doesn't sit well with me. I have had too many "microwaveable" plastic containers that lose their shape or display some pitting over time. I am not sold on the idea of long-term heating while using plastic. But, then again I am not a material scientist - maybe some of the newer stuff can handle it no problem and I am just becoming an old crusty codger that shuffles around mumbling "damn kids and their plastic cookware!!".

Ahh, I see you changed it to UK. Now it makes a little more sense as to why I haven't seen it.

Racked to a secondary after only 4 days. The yeast didn't get a chance to "clean up" after themselves. Also sounds like the beer is very young/green.

Gary

I think Terry Foster did an article in BYO, a few issues back, about his electrical breweries over the years and mentioned utilizing a similar bucket/element setup for a long time.

Ok, I'll try and get this all in one shot... Yes I boiled in a polypropylene bucket which is used as a more efficient way for us in the UK to brew all grain.. I researched before hand and the plastic is good for temperatures of around 150c. It boiled at 100c for one hour with out deformation or off odours.

Recipe & process:

22 litre English Pale Ale

4.22kg Pale Malt
530g Caramel/Crystal malt
530g Brown sugar (1 hour, boil)
1g Irish Moss (10 minutes, boil)
33g goldings (1 hour)
16g Styrian (1 hour)
16g Fuggles (2 minutes)

Mashed at 66c (150F)
Boiled for one hour

Dry hopped with 25g Fuggles (3 days)
9g Polyclar at 1 day

Bottled 1 week ago - Still might be green/young?

Should add that everything was sterilised with sodium meta bisulphate.

Any help gents would be great.

.... And apologies for the metric units!! :-D

I think you bottled too early and the beer is still green. Give it at least another 2-3 weeks in the bottle before judging it too harshly.

I'll add that Sodium Metabisulfite can be tricky to use, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Cleaning_and_Sanitation, as it's suppose to dry first according to the HBT wiki. I find Star San to be a much more user friendly sanitizer for brewing, but I don't know if it's widely available in the UK. I don't think your beer is infected, or that your sanitization process isn't sound, just thought I'd mention it.

Let it condition in the bottle for 3 weeks before you say it sucks! I used to be impatient and only give it 1-2 weeks and it tastes awful at that point. 3 weeks is how long I wait for all of my beers now. It's really amazing how much of a difference 7 days can make.

Thanks guys, I'll do that.

Either way I'll post an update here in a few weeks just so people can learn from potential mistakes I've made..

Hey all,

So it's been 3 weeks since I first bottled the stuff and now it tastes... Ok. It doesn't taste like a beer I've tasted before but it does have a sweet, almost ice cream aroma to it and is well carbonated?! Not what I expected tbh but It is approx 6.5% by hydrometer so it does have a bit of a kick to it. It's not a bad flavour but not a beer I would drink.

ATB

RickCov said:

Hey all,

So it's been 3 weeks since I first bottled the stuff and now it tastes... Ok. It doesn't taste like a beer I've tasted before but it does have a sweet, almost ice cream aroma to it and is well carbonated?! Not what I expected tbh but It is approx 6.5% by hydrometer so it does have a bit of a kick to it. It's not a bad flavour but not a beer I would drink.

ATB

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Thanks for updating us on this. Your beer looks a bit dark, more like a porter than a cream ale so I'd suggest you give it another 2 weeks and try it again. It's likely to get better with more time in the bottle.

I'm a new brewer also but it seems like to me that maybe you fermented too hot. The fact that it was finished fermenting so quickly makes me think that maybe the fermentation temperature was too high which the yeast love. In fact, at high fermentation temperatures the yeast are hyper active and produce many off-flavors.

Mind me asking what fermentation temps were? And is this a possible cause for the issue?