Your experience dealing with idiot today

CreamyGoodness said:

Why yes, because we progressives all hold hands, sing coombaya and shake tamboreens during our 2 hour lunch break.

Click to expand...

Lets not forget about driving a Prius with one of these bad boys slapped on the back.

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

By paying everyone a fair wage will this eliminate the reliance of so many on the government for basic necessities?

I tend to think not. If this were to happen, an increase in circulating currency would ultimately dilute the value of the dollar and lead to inflation.

Click to expand...

Weird.... it worked for how long before Walmart showed up ??

So now to protect against inflation we need to have the US largest employer paying near minimum wage with a good portion of their workers on public assistance?

I am no economist, but that doesn't pass the smell test. Sounds like a bit of ******** to me

Terrible sentiment I agree. I would much rather survival of the fittest.

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

Any economist in the house?

Click to expand...

You rang?


Where do you think the incidence of higher "fair" wages fall? I.e., who pays for it?

The same poor people. Higher wages = higher input costs = higher prices. Who is affected most by higher prices? Those for whom "cheap" goods comprise the largest portion of discretionary spending. Empirical evidence seems to suggest that when you pay the poor more, everything gets more expensive for the poor, and they are no better off. I.e., need to find another solution.

What would a economist say about a company that is being subsidized by the tax payers? Arent we dipping the big toe into socialism here?

Can I say that word outside of the debate forum?

What also hasnt been mentioned is that with a company like Walmart the size of the competition is rather small. Its not inconceivable that eventually, in some parts of the country, one would be literally forced to work for Walmart as there is literally nowhere else to work without relocating.

Ord did actually make a good point regarding inflation... its just that this is one slice of the pizza.

maxamuus said:

What would a economist say about a company that is being subsidized by the tax payers? Arent we dipping the big toe into socialism here?

Can I say that word outside of the debate forum?

Click to expand...

Shhh.. Don't say the "S word" around here. I'm enjoying this discussion.

So the govt is indirectly subsidizing the poor working class. Seems like a better solution than artificially inflating the economy by putting an extra dollar in everyone's hand thereby devaluing the currency.

The consequences of doing such a thing would devastate our economy.

I think we're talking real wages here; adjusted for inflation. The poor are worse off than they were 20-30 years ago. The middle class is worse off than 10 years ago. That much is clear from the data.

Rents (i.e., profits) go to scarce resources. Not productive resources. Wages fall to the incremental productivity of the last worker hired. So if you're a huge company hiring a ton of people from a huge area, labor becomes less scarce and marginal productivity falls, so wages inevitably fall. Advances in technology also makes low-skilled labor less scarce....double whammy.

So the real question, with huge policy implications, is how you can increase the real wages of the poor...how can you make them more scarce so they capture more rents.

Is your argument that in order to maintain a healthy economy and perpetuate business interests that a certain amount of those workers necessary to keeping businesses running must live below the poverty line by design? Please say no as I am not allowed to drink at work.

Airplanedoc said:

Had to go to the DMV ....Enough said

Click to expand...

Anyhow... lets get back on topic here.

DMV, now there's a fun place to hang out. Prime example of motivated government workers who tend to make most of our lives miserable.

This one ranks up there with the SS office where not only will you find overpaid under-achievers working behind the desk but also their counterpart on the other end looking for a handout.

TyTanium said:

Continued...

Click to expand...

The answer seems to lie solely with education...adding skills to make people more "scarce". Here's something interesting...the returns to education have increased continually over the past 30 years...imagine getting 12% excess returns for 30 years straight. Normally returns like that get competed away (i.e., more people attend college, supply and demand equilibrate, excess returns disappear). So why hasn't that happened?

Wage percentile is highly correlated with where you attended high school. Note: high schools are funded by property taxes (rare in developed countries). So then it's the chicken & egg:
Wages fall, property values fall, school funding falls, education falls, wages fall...repeat. As bad as NCLB has been in a lot of respects, it has actually really helped break this cycle over the past 5 years. The "poor getting poorer" has appeared to taper off somewhat, at least according to the data.

Anyway, I think I'm way OT here...I tend to get carried away with this stuff. Back to stupid!

TyTanium said:

I think we're talking real wages here; adjusted for inflation. The poor are worse off than they were 20-30 years ago. The middle class is worse off than 10 years ago. That much is clear from the data.

Rents (i.e., profits) go to scarce resources. Not productive resources. Wages fall to the incremental productivity of the last worker hired. So if you're a huge company hiring a ton of people from a huge area, labor becomes less scarce and marginal productivity falls, so wages inevitably fall. Advances in technology also makes low-skilled labor less scarce....double whammy.

So the real question, with huge policy implications, is how you can increase the real wages of the poor...how can you make them more scarce so they capture more rents.

Click to expand...

Hum. Well how about encouraging people not to accept min wage jobs and then cut off all social programs such as food stamps.

The motivated will eventually seek training, education, etc and earn a higher wage.

The unmotivated will die of famine.

The unmotivated who survive will earn higher wages because there are less unmotivated drones in the labor market.

Seems good in theory?!

That's a win-win-win

Wages in the U.S. have historically been highly regulated. Firstly, the Federal Reserve, for most of the last century, worked with the explicit objective of controlling the wage market. So long as the labor market was a "buyer's (employer's) market", all was fine. But as soon as the economy heated up and workers began to have some bargaining power the Fed would move in and raise interest rates to slow down the economy and get back to an acceptable rate of unemployment so that workers would have to claw each other's eyes out for a job. On the other end is the "minimum wage". Between these two tools, institutionalized general wage levels have been largely politically manipulated. It really doesn't matter whether one thinks these policies are good or bad, they exist and have existed for almost a century. That being the case, we can't evade moral responsibility for wage levels, laying that off on the invisible hand of competitive markets. We have to accept responsibility for wage levels and what they imply. In the modern American economy (including the effects of decades of distortions in labor markets) wage levels imply that it's perfectly alright for people to work full-time for profitable companies and be unable to rise above poverty with no health care but the emergency room. I'm not okay with that. You have every right to be okay with that. I'm not.

I just see the decline in unions, as direct correlation to the decline and shrinking of the middle class.

If you are an economist can you explain to me how we are in a better place today with more poor then we have ever had, and more ultra rich then we have ever had?

In my mind the system is just WAY out of wack. I am not calling for redistribution of wealth, I just think the lower and middle class need to be paid more and the Ultra rich just be rich. Currently we have one family having the same amount of wealth as 42% of the country.

I honestly don't understand how this is a better way of running our economy then it was in say, the 1950's.

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

Hum. Well how about encouraging people not to accept min wage jobs and then cut off all social programs such as food stamps.

The motivated will eventually seek training, education, etc and earn a higher wage.

The unmotivated will die of famine.

The unmotivated who survive will earn higher wages because there are less unmotivated drones in the labor market.

Seems good in theory?!

That's a win-win-win

Click to expand...

I think North Korea is going this route. Results so far.... well not so good.

maxamuus said:

I just see the decline in unions, as direct correlation to the decline and shrinking of the middle class.

Click to expand...

That's a common perception. I've seen no empirical evidence in any data I (or my colleagues) have evaluated to support that. It really seems to be highly correlated with education (and, to a lesser extent, technology "competing" against lower-skilled workers)

maxamuus said:

IIf you are an economist can you explain to me how we are in a better place today with more poor then we have ever had, and more ultra rich then we have ever had?

In my mind the system is just WAY out of wack. I am not calling for redistribution of wealth, I just think the lower and middle class need to be paid more and the Ultra rich just be rich. Currently we have one family having the same amount of wealth as 42% of the country.

I honestly don't understand how this is a better way of running our economy then it was in say, the 1950's.

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is saying it's better today. The debate is how to change it.

maxamuus said:

I just see the decline in unions, as direct correlation to the decline and shrinking of the middle class.

If you are an economist can you explain to me how we are in a better place today with more poor then we have ever had, and more ultra rich then we have ever had?

In my mind the system is just WAY out of wack. I am not calling for redistribution of wealth, I just think the lower and middle class need to be paid more and the Ultra rich just be rich. Currently we have one family having the same amount of wealth as 42% of the country.

I honestly don't understand how this is a better way of running our economy then it was in say, the 1950's.

Click to expand...

IMO the rise of unions has an indirect correlation with the shrinking middle class.

Labor unions once demanded higher wages. Being a global economy, it eventually becomes impossible to compete with products produced in other countries where workers will gladly accept much lower wages.

Companies told the unions to stick it and took their operations to Mexico and China.

The remaining domestic companies either survive by paying their workers **** wages or they are dying a slow death as they either have to sell their products at higher prices than their competitors or accept low profit margins.

Pilgarlic said:

...Firstly, the Federal Reserve, for most of the last century, worked with the explicit objective of controlling the wage market. So long as the labor market was a "buyer's (employer's) market", all was fine. But as soon as the economy heated up and workers began to have some bargaining power the Fed would move in and raise interest rates to slow down the economy and get back to an acceptable rate of unemployment so that workers would have to claw each other's eyes out for a job.

Click to expand...

Yikes.
1977 Amendment to Federal Reserve Act:
"[The Fed] shall maintain long run growth of the monetary and credit aggregates commensurate with the economy's long run potential to increase production, so as to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment, stable prices and moderate long-term interest rates."

TyTanium said:

Yikes.
1977 Amendment to Federal Reserve Act:
"[The Fed] shall maintain long run growth of the monetary and credit aggregates commensurate with the economy's long run potential to increase production, so as to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment, stable prices and moderate long-term interest rates."

Click to expand...

The balancing act has always (before and after 1977) been to balance "maximum employment" with "stable prices". The Phillips Curve is not dead. Yikes. The Fed has consistently erred to the side of "stable prices".

I like pictures



Seems like a direct correlation to me. However I will admit my bias I am a proud member of a union.

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

Anyhow... lets get back on topic here.

DMV, now there's a fun place to hang out. Prime example of motivated government workers who tend to make most of our lives miserable.

This one ranks up there with the SS office where not only will you find overpaid under-achievers working behind the desk but also their counterpart on the other end looking for a handout.

Click to expand...

Yep, I went to get a License plate sticker, and was informed that I have to get a new plate. After waiting 45 min in the line for the sticker. If find out Somehow in the DMV's infinite wisdom they have my plate assigned to my old truck which was wrecked and in the junk yard more than a year ago. In spite of this I did manage to get a registration and title for the current truck over a year ago, and a a sticker last year showing plate assigned to the new truck. So my year old paperwork is all correct and matches but their computer is AFU. So I have to get in another F@^@ing line for 20 min.

When I explain situation to the new a$$#ole they inform me the only way to fix it is to get a new license plate. When I suggested that they just correct the problem on the computer and give me a sticker. The truck is in the lot, all my paperwork from them matches as of last year. etc Their eyes just glazed over while they said "we can't do that."

Finally I am informed they can't take cash for a new plate. They can for a sticker, but not for a new plate. Even thou the money all goes to the same place. So I have to go back home to get a checkbook......

Here comes that "correlation/causation" thing.

maxamuus said:

I like pictures

Seems like a direct correlation to me. However I will admit my bias I am a proud member of a union.

Click to expand...

I'm proud to be anti-union.

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

I'm proud to be anti-union.

Click to expand...

Hence why you shop at Walmart How any worker can be anti-union is beyond me, but lets not get this moved to the debate forum.

Airplanedoc said:

Yep, I went to get a License plate sticker, and was informed that I have to get a new plate. After waiting 45 min in the line for the sticker. If find out Somehow in the DMV's infinite wisdom they have my plate assigned to my old truck which was wrecked and in the junk yard more than a year ago. In spite of this I did manage to get a registration and title for the current truck over a year ago, and a a sticker last year showing plate assigned to the new truck. So my year old paperwork is all correct and matches but their computer is AFU. So I have to get in another F@^@ing line for 20 min.

When I explain situation to the new a$$#ole they inform me the only way to fix it is to get a new license plate. When I suggested that they just correct the problem on the computer and give me a sticker. The truck is in the lot, all my paperwork from them matches as of last year. etc Their eyes just glazed over while they said "we can't do that."

Finally I am informed they can't take cash for a new plate. They can for a sticker, but not for a new plate. Even thou the money all goes to the same place. So I have to go back home to get a checkbook......

Click to expand...

LOL. Not really funny but actually pretty sad.

maxamuus said:

Hence why you shop at Walmart How any worker can be anti-union is beyond me, but lets not get this moved to the debate forum.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I have enough of my good treads that were moved into the abyss.

A friend of mine works at a bank. His coworker, the daughter of 2 bosses above him, did not know the difference between a million and a billion.

You know for like 20 bucks you can access the forbidden fruit ? You should see the shenanigans that go on in there. You could go hog wild.

As a good capitalist you should be supporting Txbrew on his rise to the top off our backs

CreamyGoodness said:

A friend of mine works at a bank. His coworker, the daughter of 2 bosses above him, did not know the difference between a million and a billion.

Click to expand...

You have got to be kidding?

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

You have got to be kidding?

Click to expand...

I wish I was. My friend is a serious guy, he wouldnt kid about that sort of thing.

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

You have got to be kidding?

Click to expand...

Have you missed the financial mess the last 7 years? Does this really surprise you?

maxamuus said:

You know for like 20 bucks you can access the forbidden fruit ? You should see the shenanigans that go on in there. You could go hog wild.

As a good capitalist you should be supporting Txbrew on his rise to the top off our backs

Click to expand...

LOL. If I had access I would get no work done.

As a capitalist, I fully endorse Txbrew's ability to do what he does. More power to him.

While I would like to be part of the debate forum, I refuse to pay even $1.

You see, I'm one of those greedy anti-union fiscal conservatives and want to keep all that money in my pocket.

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

I'm one of those greedy anti-union fiscal conservatives and want to keep all that money in my pocket.

Click to expand...

You should just see what they said about Reagan yesterday. Your eyes would just bug out.


Maybe I should take up a job selling HBT subscriptions.

Airplanedoc said:

Have you missed the financial mess the last 7 years? Does this really surprise you?

Click to expand...

Well... your right, this actually doesn't surprise me.

What still continues to amaze me is how many people out there suck at their job.

For example, I recently did 3 sets of taxes for myself and 2 of my companies. After completing, I wanted a CPA to take a look over it so I hired one based on a family recommendation.

I was billed for 2 hours and the seasoned 30 year 50 something year old CPA says "You seem to understand tax law fairly well. I could only find one issue"

The issue that he brought up was not even an issue. In fact, I was actually given bad advice which contradicted what was written in an IRS publication.

How the F*&^ did this a$$hole work for a very well known multi-billion dollar corporation doing corporate taxes for 30 years and not only couldn't save me a few hundred bucks but also gave me shat advice??

maxamuus said:

You should just see what they said about Reagan yesterday. Your eyes would just bug out.


Maybe I should take up a job selling HBT subscriptions.

Click to expand...

Well its not really a job.

Txbrewer is obviously an entrepreneur and knows how to gain search ranking which ultimately translates into paid memberships among other income sources. I'm sure he is well rewarded for his effort.

Wow, this thread tool a rather lame turn...

mojo_wire said:

If you shop at Wal Mart for then you deserve whatever you get, be it an inconvenient trip through the check out line, food poisoning from the 20 pounds of raw hamburger, or an allergic reaction to the awful quality clothes they imported from China.

The only exception to this is if you absolutely cannot afford to shop anywhere else.

Click to expand...

I buy rubbers on Amazon. Cheaper and prime has em here in two days. Same with boxers and under shirts. Screw walmart.

Plus I always seem to pick the line with the cute chick in it. Always gets uncomfortable even though i'm the one getting laid..

Time for today's rant.

This time I did not even have to leave the house to encounter stupidity.

Buyer calls me about an ad that I had on craigslist "yeah, I want to look at your weed eater that you have for sale, whats your address"

me: I only give my address out to those who are ready to come take a look at it. When did you plan on coming over to check it out.

Craigslist a$$hole: I can be to Cary in less than 10 mins, leaving now.

Me: Ok my address is.... See you in 10.

That was 2 hours ago. Now this punk A55 is going to show up at my house 9pm tonight with some lame excuse as to why it took 6 hours longer than expected.

CoalCracker said:

I buy rubbers on Amazon. Cheaper and prime has em here in two days. Same with boxers and under shirts. Screw walmart.

Plus I always seem to pick the line with the cute chick in it. Always gets uncomfortable even though i'm the one getting laid..

Click to expand...

True story. Picked up my favorite brand and got in line. Come up to the counter and this simply stunning early twenty something rings me up. She sees the box and beckons me closer. I lean forward. She does again. I lean forward more. She whispers in my ear. "this week these are on special, buy one get another at half off".

CoalCracker said:

I buy rubbers on Amazon. Cheaper and prime has em here in two days. Same with boxers and under shirts. Screw walmart.

Plus I always seem to pick the line with the cute chick in it. Always gets uncomfortable even though i'm the one getting laid..

Click to expand...

Yeah, I do most of my shopping online if i don't need it within a week or so.