Are DJs Musicians?
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If you mean DJ by the strict defintion of a 'disk jockey' then no. They just play the songs that the radio station tells them too. At a party, they may be a combination DJ, emcee, motivator, etc. To be a good one takes talent, no doubt. But not a musician. Unless you mean DJ Jazzy Jeff......
I was referring to folks looping and layering other peoples music and packaging it as original material.
To me musician equals you wrote and played the notes. Not for example finding part of a song by someone else that would sound good with different drums at a higher tempo.
To further explain if your song has piano or drums in it, but you/your band mate the "musician" didn't press the piano keys or hit the drums during the recording equals not a musician.
To me musician equals you wrote and played the notes. Not for example finding part of a song by someone else that would sound good with different drums at a higher tempo.
To further explain if your song has piano or drums in it, but you/your band mate the "musician" didn't press the piano keys or hit the drums during the recording equals not a musician.
Xpertskir
Well-Known Member
These people do have some talent, but no...they are not musicians.
I agree and accept there is talent involved, just not musicianship in the way I understand it.
Me:
Plays guitar, bass, drums, piano and trumpet. Took formal lessons for a decade. Uptight about music.
You have to be realistic about the definition of musician in the electronic age and realize that it's not black and white. Musician = creator of music. Is a composer of a symphony orchestra the musician or is it each of the people playing the piece real time that represent the real musicians? A modern day producer is taking on more roles as composer as the source of the final sound is less real time acoustic instruments. What about a guy who pushes the keys on a keyboard style midi controller that plays sampled instrument notes. He's not really playing the instrument you hear. In fact, he may record the sequence of notes while listening to piano sounds but the producer replaces it later with harp. No one is the harpist. It doesn't make the end result any less music. Classical guitar and folk artists probably **** a brick sideways when Jimi Hendrix started using feedback as an instrument. They no doubt claimed it was not music.
As a drummer, I can appreciate the snobbery. I don't think someone who is good at layering and looping drum samples is necessarily a drummer, but they are musicians just the same. All musicians don't earn the same amount of respect of course. Some get credit for the enormous amount of physical skill that goes into playing the instrument of choice. Others get credit for the creativity and writing. If the end production as it reaches my ears is unpleasant, I don't care how long someone practiced their instrument.
As a drummer, I can appreciate the snobbery. I don't think someone who is good at layering and looping drum samples is necessarily a drummer, but they are musicians just the same. All musicians don't earn the same amount of respect of course. Some get credit for the enormous amount of physical skill that goes into playing the instrument of choice. Others get credit for the creativity and writing. If the end production as it reaches my ears is unpleasant, I don't care how long someone practiced their instrument.
The midi keyboard is an instrument.
My beef is with those I call Loopers, CDjs, or those that play .wav files. If you wrote/composed the loops that is fine. If not I do not consider that musicianship.
Music/Art is subjective. Not arguing that.
high5apparatus
Well-Known Member
Ask Mozart
[ame="http://youtu.be/_6Au0xCg3PI"]http://youtu.be/_6Au0xCg3PI[/ame]
[ame="http://youtu.be/_6Au0xCg3PI"]http://youtu.be/_6Au0xCg3PI[/ame]
I don't really like the idea, but I think they are musicians.
They use existing sounds to create something new. Their instrument is their sampling/playback equipment. Does it matter where the sound comes from? I don't think so. I can use a trumpet, or a .wav file with trumpet sounds (or even a dog barking) to create music. The end product didn't exist until they created it.
They use existing sounds to create something new. Their instrument is their sampling/playback equipment. Does it matter where the sound comes from? I don't think so. I can use a trumpet, or a .wav file with trumpet sounds (or even a dog barking) to create music. The end product didn't exist until they created it.
This was the video that sparked this thread.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
In short no, but I guess it depends on what your definition of "musician" is
I define a musician as someone who plays a musical instrument, I define a musical instrument as something where you make a specific input to get a specific output in a musical sense. For example if I pluck an E string it's gonna result in an E note, so on so forth. I don't think that programmable devices fits that description.
I define a musician as someone who plays a musical instrument, I define a musical instrument as something where you make a specific input to get a specific output in a musical sense. For example if I pluck an E string it's gonna result in an E note, so on so forth. I don't think that programmable devices fits that description.
What if I use a piece of software where I can place notes on a staff and have those notes play back with recorded samples of real instruments at whatever tempo I choose? Musician or programmer? I think it depends on how the listener hears the output. If they discern it as music, I am a musician.
More food for thought. Are home depot bucket street drummers musicians? It's a makeshift instrument for sure, but so are vocal chords.
The question was specifically about DJs so maybe I should comment on that. I think the guys who spin records and choose creative transitions between songs and also craft a set well are talented but probably fall just short of being musicians. In fact, "DJ" is a fine word instead. However, I do believe guys that do the scratchy scratch are getting closer like DJ Kilmore from Incubus or this dude:
http://www.youtube.com/user/djenferno?v=taNFcsnVF3Y
More food for thought. Are home depot bucket street drummers musicians? It's a makeshift instrument for sure, but so are vocal chords.
The question was specifically about DJs so maybe I should comment on that. I think the guys who spin records and choose creative transitions between songs and also craft a set well are talented but probably fall just short of being musicians. In fact, "DJ" is a fine word instead. However, I do believe guys that do the scratchy scratch are getting closer like DJ Kilmore from Incubus or this dude:
http://www.youtube.com/user/djenferno?v=taNFcsnVF3Y
Totally a musician, like the link Bobby_M posted. YouTube, Dj Qbert, Mix master mike, Dj Shadow, Cut Chemist. Or check out clips from the DMC world championship. It takes an insane amount of dedication, creativity, and skill. I consider a quality DJ to be more of a musician than that guy playing Jack Johnson covers on his acoustic guitar, while sitting around a campfire. I hate that guy.
GarageDweller
Well-Known Member
I know a DJ that is also a bad ass musician, or is it the other way around? Plays drums, guitar, banjo, you effing name it, in bands, but makes most of his living running sound-board and mixing records. The guy was a guitar player before all of the other stuff, but he never limited himself. Now, this garbage that comes out as music now-a-days with all the electronic sounds, like a ***** version of NIN or something, that stuff sucks! just sounds like a bunch of noise with too much bass...kids these days! (shakes fist)
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
I would consider in that example the person to be more a programmer.
Of course I'm a fully admitted snob and I consider the fact that I've logged thousands of hours learning how to play a guitar. While I'm sure some some people log insane time working on being a DJ, I'd assume it's way less time logged and I'm not even a pro. I'd probably only be an average guitarist if compared to a large collection of guitarists.
I guess the point is that the amount of hours spent learning the skill doesn't impact where someone falls on the not musician ----- musician scale, at least not absolutely. There are so many factors that go into it other than the ability to play a traditional instrument. Opinions are also biased based on the type of music you like. You may not have as much respect for the world's greatest Sitar player as you do for a mediocre guitar player simply because it's outside of your own scope. Musicians are simply people who contribute to the production of music. It includes composers, writers, people who perform using traditional and non-traditional instruments. The guy in the video is creating a piece of music using several components and the key thing is that the piece of music you're hearing wouldn't exist without him.
That's not to say he's amazing or awe inspiring in any way. Not to me anyway, but musicality and quality are subjective.
These guys are great musicians:
A purist might complain that this guy is a hack because he's playing using non traditional way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY7GnAq6Znw
Here's someone who is obviously great at both using traditional instruments and enhancing it with tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCtGNX9JHOE
That's not to say he's amazing or awe inspiring in any way. Not to me anyway, but musicality and quality are subjective.
These guys are great musicians:
A purist might complain that this guy is a hack because he's playing using non traditional way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY7GnAq6Znw
Here's someone who is obviously great at both using traditional instruments and enhancing it with tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCtGNX9JHOE
