2013 NHC first round results?

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On a completely unrelated note I am brewing an APA today that had a "2" marked in the place box on the cover sheet ;)

I think what I've learned from all this is to send my entries to the KC and St. Paul site's next year as they seem to have run a tight ship. Atlanta was only judged last weekend so I don't expect my scoresheets for at least another week. The winners for each flight though...yeah I have a hard time understanding the hold up for releasing that information. The regional competitions did 95% of the work - just pull it from the database and upload to the website. 1 - 2 hours for each regional site - should have been up by Wednesday. I bet their inboxes are filling up quickly with emails asking about the first round results....
 
capnjb said:
New Yorkers are much busier than you.

If you didn't submit your beers to New York than I have no idea. :tank:

I didn't submit my beers to NY.

I think I was in Tulsa.
 
I obviously don't like how others got scoresheets sooner etc...but I really am not a fan of how they said something to the effect of "results can't be posted til all the judging centers are processed." Then Friday, around 5PM all the judging centers status changed to processed... C'MON, at least leave one of them in "COMPLETE" status just so I don't get my hopes up! haha :)

Im with others in thinking the online results could be posted in a quicker fashion without much more work on the volunteer end. Maybe I'm wrong, but thats just my thought.
 
Just looked at my scoresheets again and AmandaK judged one of my beers and gave really good feedback for an Irish red that wasn't that great.

I'm glad I could be of service! :D

I think what I've learned from all this is to send my entries to the KC and St. Paul site's next year as they seem to have run a tight ship.

Seems to be a pretty good solution. If you can't change the system, you might as well make it work for you! It's actually my policy for entering other competitions as well. If I think they can't get their stuff together, why would I send my carefully crafted beers there?
 
I haven't received my Atlanta results either, just like everyone else. I did however receive my Colonial Cup score sheets at my homebrew club meeting this last Saturday, and that was a serious confidence booster! A Master level judge gave our 10-C a 40 (it averaged a 39)!

But that wasn't the best part. The best part was that my brew partner and I already had a game plan on what to change with the recipe to make it better, and that was mirrored exactly in the notes! Hell yeah!

Not too bad at all for our first competition. I don't expect the same scores out of the NHC entry, but I kind of expect similar feedback since the entry was from the same batch as the Colonial Cup.

But this whole thing has taught me that a smaller competition paired with my homebrew club meetings will likely give me more carefully-considered feedback (which I will get back much sooner too!) than what I'm going to get from such an expensive and busy competition.

Next year, unless we've already been taking gold medals in other competitions with our recipes, I'm not going to submit any entries to the NHC. At $17 for the entry fee and $14 for shipping, it's not worth it. Not even close if this is the level of organization I can expect.
 
Since this is a good year for AHA bashing, and rightly so, I might as well pile on. I've been a member for the last 6 years, attended every conference and had at least 3 entries in the comp at all of them. I don't think I'll be joining this year and I don't think I'm going to attend or compete in 2014 and forward.

1. Horrible registration process for the conference.
2. Worse registration process for the comp.
3. Inconsistent score sheet and advancing strategy across all regions.
4. I'll hold this spot for a post conference complaint because somehow I doubt it's going to be smooth.

For those on the governing committee, I'm sorry, this was just a really bad year. I know you tried.
 
Got Tulsa scoresheets Saturday.

Schwarzbier got a 30.5, great feedback, the first time I've had a truly concrete suggestion on how to improve a beer entered in a competition. I will be emailing that judge to personally thank them. They both said it was a great beer, just a little too much roasted grain for the style.

Gimme S'more Stout got a 38.5, this is our top beer lately, it said it went to Mini-BOS but no place marked, I'm still happy with that. This beer has scored between 32.5 and 42 over 4 competitions, and I think I know how to tweak it to make it even better next time.

I'm glad I entered and aside from the registration, which was a nightmare, I'm happy with the competition. I got my scoresheets a week after judging ended, and I didn't expect results to be posted until May 4th, so its no biggie.

Thanks to all those who judged at Tulsa!
 
The regional competitions did 95% of the work - just pull it from the database and upload to the website. 1 - 2 hours for each regional site - should have been up by Wednesday.

Out of curiousity, have you ever used this software or organized a competition? I don't want to seem rude, but this comment seems a bit naive.

Since this is a good year for AHA bashing, and rightly so, I might as well pile on. I've been a member for the last 6 years, attended every conference and had at least 3 entries in the comp at all of them. I don't think I'll be joining this year and I don't think I'm going to attend or compete in 2014 and forward.

1. Horrible registration process for the conference.
2. Worse registration process for the comp.
3. Inconsistent score sheet and advancing strategy across all regions.
4. I'll hold this spot for a post conference complaint because somehow I doubt it's going to be smooth.

For those on the governing committee, I'm sorry, this was just a really bad year. I know you tried.

Living in states where homebrewing is legally taking a beating, I will continue to support the AHA for all they do to help us with our legislators. The AHA is not just about the conference or competition, they have their hand in exposing the hobby to more people and educating their members through their website and magazine. For $38 a year, that's a steal. And I didn't even mention the pub discounts. That's paid for my membership twice over already this year.
 
I was there and judged. I'd guess that we had as many or more high-ranking judges as any other site-I personally judged with two national judges,hung out with a Master judge between sessions, and judged at a table with Gary Glass so I'm pretty confident you can trust the results as much as(or probably more than) the other sites.

True enough that things could have happened in a more timely manner but we basically did at one location, mostly in one day, what most of the other centers did over the course of several days, at several sites. The folks at Alewife were very generous in letting us use their site and it's a great bar but due to size limitations, etc not ideal for comps (but few places here are).

As to your comment about the "level of incompetence," I think the issues have less to do with "incompetence" and more to do with two things unique to NYC (as opposed to the other judging centers). First, space here is at a premium, much more so than any other place in the country. There are an awful lot of people here who live in glorified walk-in closets and the situation is no different for businesses. A business with limited space (read ALL businesses in the city) that VOLUNTEERS to accept a huge number of deliveries of homebrews, the delivery day of which it has no control, is absolutely justified in asking for those packages be redelivered another day if they've just received a load of product that they actually make money on (and thus can't accommodate the homebrew at that moment) or are too busy actually doing business to deal with a massive homebrew delivery at that moment.

The second thing unique to NYC (and a lot of people aren't going to like hearing this one but it IS true) is that, in general, most folks here are a lot busier than folks elsewhere. I was born and raised in TX, graduated from UT, have lived in and visited plenty of other cities and I can tell you that the average person in NYC has a lot more going on than the majority of folks other places. I know almost no one up here who has time to sit around and watch tv, etc. yet some of these same people have VOLUNTEERED to take on, in what little spare time they have, an enormous administrative task in processing all of the paperwork, score sheets, etc that goes along with the NHC.

Is three weeks a while to wait? Sure. And it's great that some folks were able to get their results back from other sites so quickly. However, I'd like to point out that we're still a full week away from the date that is clearly stated on the registration site as a deadline for results so, really, your complaints are utterly baseless.

I'd suggest that if you don't appreciate the hours and days and weeks and months of work that VOLUNTEERS put into this competition then don't enter.

There's a reason that some groups shouldn't host. Just because you can, and kind of half ass it and get it done on time doesn't make it okay. Yeah, there are time limits but you're also providing a service. If you can't do a fantastic job, then don't volunteer to do it. There are plenty of clubs that would love to have the chance to host the comp, hell, probably in Connecticut or New Jersey where there is more space. Everything you mentioned in your post regarding limitations isn't an excuse, so don't act the apologist to the way the comp was run. If the organizers can't keep the judges at 10-12min a beer, then they probably shouldn't be running the competition. We went through 6 rounds in 2 days in Milwaukee, even short handed a bit for judges due to flooding in the area and still kept flights to 7-9 beers and never really felt rushed. I highly recommend anyone that is going to the conference this year to go to Bruce Buerger's seminar on how to run a comp; he runs a very tight ship (along with Brian Joas).
 
There's a reason that some groups shouldn't host. Just because you can, and kind of half ass it and get it done on time doesn't make it okay. Yeah, there are time limits but you're also providing a service. If you can't do a fantastic job, then don't volunteer to do it. There are plenty of clubs that would love to have the chance to host the comp, hell, probably in Connecticut or New Jersey where there is more space. Everything you mentioned in your post regarding limitations isn't an excuse, so don't act the apologist to the way the comp was run. If the organizers can't keep the judges at 10-12min a beer, then they probably shouldn't be running the competition. We went through 6 rounds in 2 days in Milwaukee, even short handed a bit for judges due to flooding in the area and still kept flights to 7-9 beers and never really felt rushed. I highly recommend anyone that is going to the conference this year to go to Bruce Buerger's seminar on how to run a comp; he runs a very tight ship (along with Brian Joas).

This is my first NHC comp and I entered Region 8, run by Bruce, he's been great with responding to emails prior to and after the judging. Glad to hear I was in a well-run competition.
 
This is my first NHC comp and I entered Region 8, run by Bruce, he's been great with responding to emails prior to and after the judging. Glad to hear I was in a well-run competition.

I think it was well run and all of the judges in my vicinity were doing a good job of filling out scoresheets and there was good discussion on the beers. There was definitely some adversity but I think they did a fantastic job of handling it. Hopefully your scoresheets reflect it!
 
I did some quick math. There were 11 judging sites and each one was full with 750 entries. That's 8250 entries at 12 dollars an entry. The total dollar amount from entry fees than is at least 99K, probably more since non AHA members pay more. Let's call it an even 100K. But wait there are also corporate sponsorships for each category. I don't know how much but let's say it is 1K for each category(23). So now the NHC has raised 123K to put on a homebrew competition that is run entirely by VOLUNTEERS. Now I know there are some expenses ( postage, medals, room rentals, office supplies, etc..) but certainly NOT 123K worth. It just seems like we aren't getting what we are paying for.....


Ask the folks in Utah, and Mississippi if it is worth it. Thanks to the efforts of the AHA, homebrewing is now legal in those states (still working on AL). Several states that didn't, now allow the transport homebrew so HB festivals are now legal. Seems to me the AHA is doing some pretty good stuff for homebrewers Nationwide.

I'm dying as much as the next person for the results, but they did say they would be up by the 4th, and it is not the 4th yet.
 
Out of curiousity, have you ever used this software or organized a competition? I don't want to seem rude, but this comment seems a bit naive.

No to both. I realize that this is a huge competition, and understand that it is extremely difficult to manage and coordinate people across the country while working with volunteers, and I do appreciate the level of effort for everyone involved in it. Seriously. It's a huge task and it sounds for your posts that you and your region did a tremendous job. It's clear that some regions are just busier than the rest of us and can't be bothered to go the post office and mail out score sheets.

I have also entered numerous competitions both large and small and received competition results (winners in each category) usually within 24 - 72 hours. We're going on a week now since the last judging was completed. As I've stated before, with the costs per entry being so much higher than your typical competition, my expectations was that the results would be posted within a few days. You're talking about handing someone a list of 84 names, per region, and updated a webpage. Realistically, that's 1 - 2 hours of work per region. Perhaps up to 4 if they're not experienced with the website. That should take a few days to do for the entire competition, but certainly not a week.

I realize I'm just complaining that I don't have the information at hand, but again with the high cost per entry ($12/$17) I think it is a justifiable criticism. If any other competition took over a week to post the results I would not re-enter it, period. If this was a free competition, with no entry cost, I would tell everyone here to shut it and wait patiently. It's not though.

Additionally, there are people here that have had their results for several weeks now. The stated goal for delaying the results was to avoid the perception of an advantage to early judging sites, but it's clear that's not the case at all.

I hope I'm not coming across as just complaining, because I'm really delighted that my entries are going to be judged by high ranking BJCP judges and the feedback should be very valuable. I just hope the AHA addresses these inconsistencies for future NHC's.
 
I don't think it's just 84 names per region since all scores are sent (not just the medals) so they can be uploaded to the software. So we're talking about 750 scores per region, taking into account errors in data import that need to be addressed. Also, the AHA is something like 4-5 FT people, and Janis has other responsibilities including coordinating National Homebrew Day.

Again, I have no problem with the May 4th deadline, just the inconsistency of results being reported or not by the individual regions, busy or not.
 
I don't think it's just 84 names per region since all scores are sent (not just the medals) so they can be uploaded to the software. So we're talking about 750 scores per region, taking into account errors in data import that need to be addressed. Also, the AHA is something like 4-5 FT people, and Janis has other responsibilities including coordinating National Homebrew Day.

Again, I have no problem with the May 4th deadline, just the inconsistency of results being reported or not by the individual regions, busy or not.

I don't understand why all 750 scores have to be entered into a database? Why not just the winners? I don't think the AHA really cares that my California Common got a 28 and needs to track that.
 
I don't think it's just 84 names per region since all scores are sent (not just the medals) so they can be uploaded to the software. So we're talking about 750 scores per region, taking into account errors in data import that need to be addressed. Also, the AHA is something like 4-5 FT people, and Janis has other responsibilities including coordinating National Homebrew Day.

Again, I have no problem with the May 4th deadline, just the inconsistency of results being reported or not by the individual regions, busy or not.

But all people would be best served by prioritizing the 84 scores, getting those uploaded, checked, and published, and then focusing on the other 666 (HA!), don't you think?

There may be a compelling reason that all 750 scores have to be fully processed before the top 84 can be shared, so be it, I just don't see what that reason is.
 
I don't think it's just 84 names per region since all scores are sent (not just the medals) so they can be uploaded to the software. So we're talking about 750 scores per region, taking into account errors in data import that need to be addressed. Also, the AHA is something like 4-5 FT people, and Janis has other responsibilities including coordinating National Homebrew Day.

This was my point. The AHA is not a huge corporation. They are not here to take your money and run with it. I think you all are forgetting that she still has to mail out all those silly little 'certificates' along with the first round ribbons. And she's busy with other AHA stuff. I think the last 4 times we've emailed, she's been out of the office on business trips.

Also, at $12 for what is essentially TWO competitions, I think this is a fair price.
 
I don't understand why all 750 scores have to be entered into a database? Why not just the winners? I don't think the AHA really cares that my California Common got a 28 and needs to track that.

I believe it is their intention to make all results (advancing or not) available via the online registration software to each participant ( I assume they mean their own entries, not that some guy in NH got a 13 on his scoresheet :) ).

Without ever seeing the process on how all this is accomplished, it's easy to say just publish the winners and do everyone else later. Again, my beef is with the NYC region holding onto scoresheets ( 3 weeks is more than enough time to send out sheets, regardless of how busy you are). It seems to me they are holding them until the AHA releases their results, even though it's been indicated to them by the AHA they should send them out ASAP.
 
I just got Zanesville back in the mail. 3rd in 6D and 2nd in SHV. I'll post the rest of my scores when I go thru them all.
 
Zanesville, OH Judging

6D - American Wheat - 38.5 (3rd Place)

10A - American Pale - 34
10B - American Amber - 27.5
10C - American Brown - 36.5
11A - Mild - 24.5
12A - Brown Porter - 24 (contaminated)
28D - Graff - 26
16E - Consecration Clone - 30.5
17B - Flanders Red - 31
20A - Strawberry Wheat - 32
21A - Oatmeal Coffee Stout - 42.5 (2nd Place)
22C - Whiskey Barrel Oatmeal Stout - 34.5
23A - Peach Berliner Weisse - 27
18D - Belgian Golden Strong - 35.5
22B - American Brown w/ Rauchmalt - 29.5
 
Zanesville, OH Judging

6D - American Wheat - 38.5 (3rd Place)

10A - American Pale - 34
10B - American Amber - 27.5
10C - American Brown - 36.5
11A - Mild - 24.5
12A - Brown Porter - 24 (contaminated)
28D - Graff - 26
16E - Consecration Clone - 30.5
17B - Flanders Red - 31
20A - Strawberry Wheat - 32
21A - Oatmeal Coffee Stout - 42.5 (2nd Place)
22C - Whiskey Barrel Oatmeal Stout - 34.5
23A - Peach Berliner Weisse - 27
18D - Belgian Golden Strong - 35.5
22B - American Brown w/ Rauchmalt - 29.5

Nice work! I don't know how you folks enter so many beers. I entered 6 and it was a pain in the ass with shipping.
 
Also, at $12 for what is essentially TWO competitions, I think this is a fair price.

Considering the average competition fees are in the $5-7 range this is accurate for the 10% or so that advance.

Unfortunately for the overwhelming majority of entrants (90%), this is not the case.
 
I'm in Pittsburgh, so I drove my entries, plus a bunch of other entries from guys in my club. Cheaper that shipping, that's for sure. If I had to ship them, I would have entered half.
 
I'm in Pittsburgh, so I drove my entries, plus a bunch of other entries from guys in my club. Cheaper that shipping, that's for sure. If I had to ship them, I would have entered half.

Gotcha, that makes it much easier. If I do advance, I can drive my entries as I live like 5 minutes from the hotel the NHC is at. Here's to hoping.
 
Got Tulsa scoresheets Saturday.

...
Gimme S'more Stout got a 38.5, this is our top beer lately, it said it went to Mini-BOS but no place marked, I'm still happy with that. This beer has scored between 32.5 and 42 over 4 competitions, and I think I know how to tweak it to make it even better next time.
...

Which category was that in?
 
Zanesville, OH Judging

6D - American Wheat - 38.5 (3rd Place)

10A - American Pale - 34
10B - American Amber - 27.5
10C - American Brown - 36.5
11A - Mild - 24.5
12A - Brown Porter - 24 (contaminated)
28D - Graff - 26
16E - Consecration Clone - 30.5
17B - Flanders Red - 31
20A - Strawberry Wheat - 32
21A - Oatmeal Coffee Stout - 42.5 (2nd Place)
22C - Whiskey Barrel Oatmeal Stout - 34.5
23A - Peach Berliner Weisse - 27
18D - Belgian Golden Strong - 35.5
22B - American Brown w/ Rauchmalt - 29.5

Forgive me if this comes off as insensitive, but why would you enter a beer that is contaminated into a competition? (I'm assuming you knew it was contaminated, of course.)

Either way, congrats on the advancement!
 
Forgive me if this comes off as insensitive, but why would you enter a beer that is contaminated into a competition? (I'm assuming you knew it was contaminated, of course.)

Either way, congrats on the advancement!

I didn't know it was contaminated. I got dinged on the Mild for diacetyl. I didn't realize either had issues or I would have rebrewed or sent a different version. I guess my ability to taste diacetyl isn't the greatest. :mug:
 
I didn't know it was contaminated. I got dinged on the Mild for diacetyl. I didn't realize either had issues or I would have rebrewed or sent a different version. I guess my ability to taste diacetyl isn't the greatest. :mug:

Thanks for the response! Sometimes when I get a particularly nasty beer, I wonder to myself if the brewer just didn't want to mess with a judge that day. :drunk: I had to ask since you wrote 'contaminated'. :mug:
 
Thanks for the response! Sometimes when I get a particularly nasty beer, I wonder to myself if the brewer just didn't want to mess with a judge that day. :drunk: I had to ask since you wrote 'contaminated'. :mug:

I was stewarding and judging at Zanesville and was wondering the same thing... turns out it may have been my beer I overheard people talking about. I wrote that so I didn't get down on myself about the recipe, just the sanitation, etc.

I'm interested to see people post their scores as they get home from work today.
 
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