Will Galaxy, Centennial & Amarillo, play well together?

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expatbrew

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Living in Singapore I have limited access to grains, and need to use my hops wisely (shipping from US to Singapore isn't cheap:mug:)

I prefer dry and crisp IPAs (dogfish 60min, sierra nevada ipa) over the thick sweet malty West Coast.

IPA
Grain Bill
5kg 2-Row
.25kg CaraAroma
400g for sugar (added to boil)

Mash
mashed at 149F for 60 min
5.5 Gallons
SG 1.062
90 min boil


Hops
60 min .5 Apollo
10 min 1 oz Galaxy and 1 oz Centennial
0 min - 1 oz Galaxy and .5 oz Amarillo
@180 F - Hop-Stand for 30 min: 2 oz Galaxy, 1 oz Centennial, 1 oz Amarillo

Pitch Nottingham

  • Will these hops play well together?
  • How do these amounts look?
  • Will the hop steep add enough aroma, or do I still need to dry hop?
 
Not sure where you are getting "thick sweet malty" with "West coast" as the west coast IPAs tend to finish drier.

I don't think you'll have any troubles combining those hops. Not sure about amounts, and I'm way too lazy to look up AA% and do calculations for the hop additions you list.

0.5oz for an IPA sounds a little light on bitterness addition IBUs to me. I suppose you are counting on the hop bursting at the end to contribute an appropriate level of bitterness, but you ought to be careful as a few minutes of boil time, a slight difference in AA% from storage conditions, or a small measurement error when weighing can dramatically change the way your beer ends up tasting. Even if you end up with the best IPA you've ever had this time, good luck reproducing it later on.
 
Apollo 18.5%
Galaxy 14%
Centennial 10%
Amarillo 9%

No including flame-out or hop-steep, the IBU's should be about 55 IBU

thick/sweet/malty = higher amounts of crystal malts and mash temps of 152-153
 
Looks ok, I'd keep one oz of galaxy and another of amarillo from the hop stand and use them to dry hop (keeping galaxy and centennial for hop stand).
 
I wouldn't use Amarillo for the dry hop. To me, fruitier hops do better with a stand. 30 minutes is a bit low, go for an hour. I also suggest dry hopping, but maybe with a combo of Centennial and Galaxy. Is that all the hops you have?
 
For hop steep, how do you decide on 1 hour vs. 30 min? Is it utilization rate, or time till saturation? I'm still learning...

Hops on hand;
Simcoe
Belma
Zythos
polaris
Falcners flight
Galaxy
Apollo
Summit
Columbus
Calypso
Amarillo
Centennial

In the mail, soon to be delivered;
Citra
Simcoe
Mosaic
Cascade
 
you get bitterness, but not too much. The extra length is for flavor. I recently did a hop stand with citra, chinook, simcoe and amarillo. The citra and amarillo popped enormously. I dry hopped with the same and the chinook and simcoe came through then. Just my experience. The steep produces hop flavor and some aroma. Think of it like a tea. My "IPA" came out tasting like hop nectar
 
I did .5 ounces of each of the strains I listed for 30 min at 180 and then .5 more of each for 30 more at 160. No bittering or boil hops. I don't necessarily suggest to mime my brew (I'm still experimenting) but you will really like the flavor of 1 hour steeps of any fruity hop
 
Apollo is at 18% or more... he's good.

I think you completely misunderstood my post.

It's not a matter of whether he's getting an appropriate number of IBUs in the recipe. It is about the relative quantities/timing of each of those hops additions and the potential variation in IBUs that could result.

A tiny amount of very high alpha hops, combined with a huge quantity of late addition hops means you will probably not be able to reproduce that exact hop profile and IBU level again when you make the beer next time.

If you are a homebrewer that wants to be able to repeat your successful beers, you don't want tiny errors in measurement or timing to have such a huge effect in the way the beer comes out. However, the way the recipe is designed pretty much guarantees that.



EDIT: Professional brewers making production batches have really good reasons to prefer super high alpha hops like Apollo, etc. They use less hops to get a similar bitterness level, which leaves a lot less chance of pulling out vegetal flavors from too much plant material. However, these guys are pitching quantities on the order of pounds of hops into their batches. Measurement error isn't nearly as big of a factor.

Maybe you guys are using different scales than I do, but the typical scales I see at LHBS stores and that I use at home is this one. On mine, the absolute smallest amount it will display a change in weight for when measuring hops is about .02oz, and if I add/remove those same pieces it actually doesn't register changes reliably until the quantity is more like .06-.08oz. So even if you plan for .5oz of bittering hops, you might be putting in as much as .58oz or as little as .42oz in any given batch. For a 60 minute addition with 18% AA hops, that represents nearly 14 IBUs of variation. Now, take that same problem and put 2oz of high alpha hops at the very end of the boil.

Here you have a variation in timing. Say that the end of the boil length can vary by about +/- 2 minutes. Maybe it takes shorter or longer for the wort to cool at flameout due to the weather being a bit windier or colder, etc. Maybe you just looked at your watch when it just ticked over to 2:34 to time the hops, but didn't turn off the flame until just a second before 2:46. Whatever. In this case, you are looking at a variation of just over 12 IBUs just from that potential timing difference at the end of the boil.

So with those variations combined, you could be drinking a beer that is anywhere between 40 and 66 actual IBUs (not actual values) when it's done. Now suppose you make the BEST IPA EVAR with this recipe, and you want to make it again. How close do you think you might be to the original batch? You might get pretty close, or it might end up tasting more like a pale ale instead of an IPA.
 
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Hmm. your logic and math add up, but how would you overcome this prolblem with hop-burst APA/IPA?

I like to brew tasty beers, and test out new techniques. I'm not yet at the stage of re-brewing a recipe and perfecting it. I do like using high AA for my 60 min addition so I have less hop trub to deal with.
 
I stopped doing hop burst beers because I was getting mixed results. Also it uses a ton of hops when you are trying to design a recipe to get 50%+ of your bitterness from late additions, and hops are expensive.

I do first wort hops for bittering & flavor, and I tend to do my late "aroma" additions at flameout or maybe 5 mins occasionally, in addition to dry hopping like crazy. I probably put in something like 60%+ of all my hops additions (by weight) as dry hops on IPAs.
 
hmm very interesting. Sounds like I'm going to have to do some experimenting with my IPAs.
 
I stopped doing hop burst beers because I was getting mixed results. Also it uses a ton of hops when you are trying to design a recipe to get 50%+ of your bitterness from late additions, and hops are expensive.

I do first wort hops for bittering & flavor, and I tend to do my late "aroma" additions at flameout or maybe 5 mins occasionally, in addition to dry hopping like crazy. I probably put in something like 60%+ of all my hops additions (by weight) as dry hops on IPAs.
you're obviously more experienced than me so I don't want to sound rude at all, but I've got to disagree. More and more breweries are hop bursting and hop standing/steeping with consistent results. Maybe you weren't keeping your kettle at the exact temps and letting it cool? This would give you some variability.

Hop stands have worked so well for me, that I can't not explore the possibilities. But to each his own! :tank:
 
Man oh Man, and I thought making beer wasn't supposed to be so hard.

Guess I'll have to try a few things:
- 60 min, hop-burst, Hop steep (no dry-hop)
- 60 min, flame out, and lots of dry hop (no 10 min, no 5 min, and no hop-steep)
- 60 min, flame out, Hop steep + dry hops
 
you're obviously more experienced than me so I don't want to sound rude at all, but I've got to disagree. More and more breweries are hop bursting and hop standing/steeping with consistent results.

Hop bursting & hop standing are two different things. I didn't even say a word about hop standing.

Second, I did mention earlier that larger production scales and professional-level processes means they are more easily able to dial in those numbers than a homebrewer. Especially when you are working with pounds of hops vs fractions of an ounce, and your control and understanding of hops alpha acid levels is much better than a typical homebrewer who has to go by what their LHBS told them, and hope that those hops have been stored ideally, which they probably have not. It is much easier to dial in those types of recipes when you control more of the critical variables.


Finally, to the OP. You are probably going to produce a tasty beer regardless. It is more a matter of having consistent results. If you are going to try all those combinations, you might also consider first wort hops as the quality of the bitterness is quite different, especially compared to hop bursting.
 

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