Double IPA Pliny the Elder Clone

Ah, I see what you're saying. If I hadn't been drinking homebrew, I most likely would have understood your question.

Brewed this on Sunday 2/17, it is still bubbling pretty good. I'll take a gravity reading Sunday or Monday and depending on where it is at, I will do the first dryhop addition. I am thinking I will add the first DH to primary, then rack to secondary for the 2nd DH addition. Normally I do everything in the primary because I don't want to risk oxygenation. Any thoughts on this?

autiger said:

Brewed this on Sunday 2/17, it is still bubbling pretty good. I'll take a gravity reading Sunday or Monday and depending on where it is at, I will do the first dryhop addition. I am thinking I will add the first DH to primary, then rack to secondary for the 2nd DH addition. Normally I do everything in the primary because I don't want to risk oxygenation. Any thoughts on this?

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Nice. I brewed this on 2/16 so I'm a day ahead. I have a very similar plan as you. I have always dryhopped in primary. I plan to use a spare corny as a secondary for the second dry hop. Using the corny as a secondary will allow me to connect my CO2 bottle and purge the oxygen out of it. When it's ready, I'll cold crash it in the corny and siphon to another keg for carbing and serving.

Good luck!

I am getting ready to brew this what size batch did you start with and how much loss was due to all the hops. I would like to finish with 5 gallons

I started with a little over 7 gallons in boil, used hop sack and after straining I ended up around barely clearing 5 into the fermenter. I pitched two packets of yeast and expect to lose a good bit from that. I would guess I will only bottle 4.75 gallons. It was my first time brewing this and now I know I need a bigger brew kettle.

I guess i will try about 7.75 preboil and see where that gets me

I did this recipe and it tastes great, however, I got very little aroma. Any ideas why I got next to no aromas with so much hops and dry-hopping? Also I got very little head too.....

I got very little aroma as well

I did the Vinnie recipe printed in Zymurgy. I did a 5 gallon batch but not the 8 gallon boil due to a small kettle. I get a ton of aroma in the first few weeks but it fades fast. Just like the original, this one should be enjoyed as fresh as possible.

I'm drinking this brew now. I hit all of my targets (mash temp, volume, OG, FG) dead on per Vinnie's recipe.

I am surprised that there is not a more hop forward aroma going on in this brew. I'm also surprised that this is a bit on the sweet side even though my mash was at 151 for the duration (HERMS).
I kegged and force carbed (set and forget) and get a great head with nice lacing in the glass.

Overall a really good brew. I've had PTE in the bottle fresh in the past, but I don't have one to A/B now unfortunately. So I can't accurately comment on how close it is. But I'd say that my comments on it are fairly close.

Good stuff.

For those of you with aroma and flavor issues, are you:

*Whirlpooling long enough, and not just a quick 15 min?

*Multi-stage dryhopping (discarding the old additions when adding the new)?

*Using pellets, and ensuring full contact with the beer when dryhopping?

*Doing full volume 90 min boils with no top off water?

*Brewing via All-Grain?

*Pitching enough yeast and nailing actual fermentation temps?

*Following all the tips Vinnie gave for Brewing a Double IPA (separate PDF document).

*Realizing that trub loss and differences in individual systems may skew the intended batch size? The clone says it yields a 5 gallon batch post-fermentation

*Drinking it fresh?!


The Pliny clone comes close to the original, but it is not an exact clone. The real beer is paler and drier... which hints they use less American Crystal 40 (not Crisp 45 L). I think I read that Elder is 340 IBUs Rager, but what ends up in your glass is more like 75-85 IBUs. I would up the dryhop to 4.75-5.25 total oz. maybe, boosting only the Columbus and Simcoe. There is also a tiny bit of Amarillo in the dryhop now.

bobbrews said:

For those of you with aroma and flavor issues, are you:

*Whirlpooling long enough, and not just a quick 15 min?

*Multi-stage dryhopping (discarding the old additions when adding the new)?

*Using pellets, and ensuring full contact with the beer when dryhopping?

*Doing full volume 90 min boils with no top off water?

*Brewing via All-Grain?

*Pitching enough yeast and nailing actual fermentation temps?

*Following all the tips Vinnie gave for Brewing a Double IPA (separate PDF document).

*Realizing that trub loss and differences in individual systems may skew the intended batch size? The clone says it yields a 5 gallon batch post-fermentation

*Drinking it fresh?!

The Pliny clone comes close to the original, but it is not an exact clone. The real beer is paler and drier... which hints they use less American Crystal 40 (not Crisp 45 L). I think I read that Elder is 340 IBUs Rager, but what ends up in your glass is more like 75-85 IBUs. I would up the dryhop to 4.75-5.25 total oz. maybe, boosting only the Columbus and Simcoe. There is also a tiny bit of Amarillo in the dryhop now.

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I followed the recipe VC had in the BYO article for a 10g all-grain batch.

- Full 90 minute boil with no top off water (I calculated the volumes for my system and got it right)

- Pellet hops in the BK

- Whirlpooled for 15 minutes and then went through the CFC to the fermenter which took another 20-25 minutes or so (next time I would whirlpool for probably 45 minutes next time)

- Dry-hopped with flowers in a muslin bag. I left the first addition in for the duration (I didn't remove when I did the 2nd addition)

- In an attempt to compensate for not doing a hop stand with the FO addition in the BK, I doubled the 2nd hop addition and used half of that to make a hop tea (170-150 for 30 minutes, then cooled and added). I used enough water to float the flowers, but probably should have used twice that much water.

- I used MrMalty to determine the proper pitch rate and used a stir plate (then cold crashed and decanted prior to pitching).

- Ferment temp was at ~69 (higher than I would have liked, but the best I could do for now)

- 9 gallons made it into the kegs at the end of it, so a gallon shy (I dumped trub and harvested yeast from the conical)

- Force carb'd (set and forget)

- Drank as fresh as I could once it carb'd

Any advice on what I could/should have done different is more than welcome.

Like I said, a really great beer, but I think it could be better.

Silentnoiz said:

Any advice on what I could/should have done different is more than welcome.

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It sounds like you kinda know what you could have done better. But here goes...

Don't skip the hopstand. Whirlpool longer. I like a slow cooling hopstand in the 165-60 F range myself for at least 30 minutes, but 40-60 is better.

Don't use leaf hops, especially for the whirlpool and dryhop. Pellets absorb better in a quicker time frame and release more of their potency within that time.

Up the dryhop to about 5 oz. next time. And do it in stages.

Ferment in the low 60s, and let free rise to 66-68 F after 5-10 days, then dryhop at 66-68 F.

Thanks for the advice, bobbrews.

All of that makes sense. I've always dry-hopped with flowers, never pellets. It makes complete sense that pellets have more potency than flowers. And that makes me wonder about the difference between 1oz pellet vs. flower (in either the boil or dry-hop), on which I guess I need to educate myself. And on my to-do-list is a fermentation chamber build (already have the STC-1000), just need to find the time and approval from SWMBO on that time spend.

cbehr said:

Is there a huge difference in the yeast? I'm doing a 2G batch so I'd probably prefer a dry US-05 unless someone really thinks another is that much better.

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I do not notice a difference in this beer between WLP001 or US05.

HH60gunner said:

I did this recipe and it tastes great, however, I got very little aroma. Any ideas why I got next to no aromas with so much hops and dry-hopping? Also I got very little head too.....

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Well, one thing is that the dry hop is not actually all that large compared to many dry hops you see in contemporary IPA recipes. I see dry hops up to 6 oz. all the time, and this is only a 3.75 oz. total. Moreover, its spending a lot of time bulk aging rather than going straight on tap, so the flavor will diminish fairly rapidly.

I mashed a little lower than the 151 degrees it calls for, 149 I believe. I hit 1.01 for my fg, the sample I took before kegging was superb. Has some aroma, I did bump up the Columbus and simcoe dry hops. Also used c40 instead of 45. Will be brewing this again!

Just transferred to secondary for my 2nd dryhop addition. Took a FG reading and it was 1.011. Since I was low on my OG, it's somewhere around 7.1% abv. I've had the real thing a few months back and thought it was really balanced and tasted amazing, but I drank my hydrometer sample and man was it BITTER. I am hoping that after this second dryhop and after it carbs up that the aroma comes through and balances this out.

Excited to brew this next week

Just brewed this. Used pellets for the bittering, and whole leaf for the rest. Its what I had on hand, kinda wish I had pellets. The flowers just absorb so much wort its crazy.

For some reason, my OG came in very low. I was shooting for 1.074, but I came in at 1.064. Not really sure what happened. I BIAB, so I dont know if it was in my crush, or if it was just a batch with horrible efficiency, but it came in very low. I boiled some water and added about 5 ounces of dextrose to try and bring it up a bit, but it probably wont really matter. Smells great though!

I just kegged a batch of this recipe at the end of last week and it turned out awesome! We used pellet hops for the whole thing and I gave the final dry hop additions a slight bump up. It tastes great with a robust hop experience through and through. Even with pellets there is a fair amount of volume lost, but we would certainly have lost more using whole leaf and the dry hop additions would have been more cumbersome. In a 5 1/2 gallon secondary, it was literally filled to the brim after the hop additions. I couldn't have had another ounce in there without a full on disaster. Next time I might use a bigger carboy for secondary, but this time I certainly had no risk of oxygen exposure on the surface because it was FULL. I'm glad we used pellets.

Our OG hit 1.072 and it finished out at 1.011. The only thing that would make this any better at all would be a lower gravity version so I could enjoy more of it at a time and keep my wits about me.

Came out to California from Alabama for Coachella and some R&R and finally got to drink Pliny for the first time. Oh my....

That's all I can say.

MTate37 said:

Came out to California from Alabama for Coachella and some R&R and finally got to drink Pliny for the first time. Oh my....

That's all I can say.

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I went to California earlier this yeah and couldn't find any.

Brewed this today and hit all the numbers dead on. Cant wait....

Sub'd so I can find it easily...

I've been reliably informed there's not a hope in hell of me getting hold of this in the UK, so looks like I'm gonna have to make it myself.

bobmcstuff said:

Sub'd so I can find it easily...

I've been reliably informed there's not a hope in hell of me getting hold of this in the UK, so looks like I'm gonna have to make it myself.

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I live in NY state and have never seen it around here. I did have it once when a friend brought some back from the west coast.

Day 7 in primary and still bubbling away!

Gravity after 8 days is 1.012 had a taste out of the test tube . Still very bitter but I definitely tastes the Pliny notes! I can't wait for the final product!

I brewed this and after 7 days I've gone from 1.070 to 1.011--this has virtually been a perfect brew so far. I used 3 Hopshots (first time using them) from NB for the 90 minute addition and 45. I did 12 ML for the 90 minute and 3 ML for the 45 minute. Taste is great for only 7 days--lots of flavor. I did a 2L starter with WY1056...I read Vinnie's plug about slightly underpitching double IPA's to protect the hop flavor...I'm dying to try this one! I also did a 40 minute hop stand with the 0 minute hops.

I'm going to CC this in a few days, and do half the dry hopping for 5 days in primary and then transfer to secondary and 5 more days for the second dry hopping.

Ill be making this again soon I think, it was a fantastic beer

So I brewed up a 12 G batch of this and used mostly leaf hops. Ended up with about 10G into the fermenters. Lots of loss due to all that mass of hops! I mashed at 150F using my new RIMS system and could not be happier as to how my system performed. This was a LOT of work to produce this beer. I had to constantly stir with all the hops in solution to prevent boil over...did not help it was 105F and 70+% humidity in the shade! I am fermenting with Safale 05 at 62. Should take about 11 or 12 days to complete fermentation. I hit all gravity numbers on the nose. Aroma was outstanding! Will transfer to keg to secondary and dry hop using my stainless steel hop spider. Most important thing with this beer is to avoid oxidation during secondary and dry hopping! Do that, and you will have a world class beer to drink and share with your friends! Cheers!

bguzz said:

I brewed this and after 7 days I've gone from 1.070 to 1.011--this has virtually been a perfect brew so far. I used 3 Hopshots (first time using them) from NB for the 90 minute addition and 45. I did 12 ML for the 90 minute and 3 ML for the 45 minute. Taste is great for only 7 days--lots of flavor. I did a 2L starter with WY1056...I read Vinnie's plug about slightly underpitching double IPA's to protect the hop flavor...I'm dying to try this one! I also did a 40 minute hop stand with the 0 minute hops.

I'm going to CC this in a few days, and do half the dry hopping for 5 days in primary and then transfer to secondary and 5 more days for the second dry hopping.

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So the result was less than stellar...it's not bad but not good either. I mashed with 4 gallons of distilled cut with 1 gallon of well water that has higher alkalinity. I used 5 grams of gypsum, 2 grams of cacl and 2 grams of Epsom salt. The result was a thin tasting beer with little flavor and poor head retention. I haven't had a miss like this in a long long time. I dry hopped in the primary so little possibility of oxidation or infection. I had a nice and healthy 2L starter on a stirplate that I decanted. I'm sure it isn't infected...any ideas what happened?

Just brewed this beer last night. First full boil BIAB i have done and there where a few hitches but all in all I think it went well.
Hitch #1 pre boild volume not right ended up with 4.25 gal.
Hitch #2 forgot to add corn sugar until flame out.

OG 1.066

I will re post when i taste sample at 1st dry hop!

I'm planning on brewing up this recipe this weekend and was wondering if there would be any noticeable difference to subbing out cane sugar for the corn sugar?

I seem to remember reading that there were no noticeable differences between the two but just wanted to make sure...

MMJfan said:

I'm planning on brewing up this recipe this weekend and was wondering if there would be any noticeable difference to subbing out cane sugar for the corn sugar?

I seem to remember reading that there were no noticeable differences between the two but just wanted to make sure...

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I use cane sugar all the time instead of corn, even for bottling, and can't tell the difference. I am sure some folks on here may disagree, but the difference, if any, is minimal. Plus, the beer is so hoppy, you wouldn't notice anyway.

slapmc said:

I use cane sugar all the time instead of corn, even for bottling, and can't tell the difference. I am sure some folks on here may disagree, but the difference, if any, is minimal. Plus, the beer is so hoppy, you wouldn't notice anyway.

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Good to know. Thanks!

I have a 1 lb bag of corn sugar, but I also have 3 batches of beer that will be ready for bottling in the next week or so and I didn't want to have to make a run to my LHBS which is almost 45 minutes away from me just to buy some more corn sugar so I will be using cane sugar for this recipe!

I am setting up to brew this recipe this weekend except I'll be using Marris Otter instead of 2-row and may have to change the Hop amounts depending on what I have in storage.

Excited to try this... it'll be my first time using my AG system.

Beer is in the fermenter. Pre-boil at 1.054. OG at 1.075. Good efficiency for first time. Def hop forward but a strong Maltiness too. Bitter on the back of the tongue.
Left cup is pre-boil. Right cup is Post. Ton of hop muck. Used a filter to get the other picture. Had 6+ in to fermenter but racked off some to eliminate some hop material. Ended up w 5.25-.50 gal.

I just did this one up yesterday. got super great efficiency on it as well. OG was 1.072, so it should be a yummy one. Used Amarillo in place of the Simcoe as it wasn't available. And I see the Pliny the younger uses Amarillo, so should get me close, but I've never tried the original PTE so I can't compare.

Well, I tackled this beast yesterday doing BIAB. It was one of my biggest grain bills save for another IIPA I made. And it was BY FAR the most hops I've added to a beer with almost 9 oz of hops used yesterday!

I don't have a large enough kettle to do full boil BIAB so I do a sparge in a separate smaller kettle to get my pre-boil volume where I need it. Yesterday I added a rinse as well as I didn't get quite my pre-boil volume after my sparge. Other than that, things went according to plan and my OG was actually a bit higher than my target of 1.070 as mine checked in at 1.076.

I also read a blogger who brewed the recipe I used and his first attempt he said the only difference was his turned out a bit darker than PTE. So, he cut back on the Crystal 45L about in half of what the recipe calls for and said his color was almost spot on with PTE by doing so. I tried this as well so we shall see. Can't wait to get this in the bottle and start drinking it!

Yeah I've never had it either. Care to share ur recipe yeast etc?