New Yeast for Skeeter Pee

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LBussy

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So Montrachet was not a good match for me in Skeeter Pee. WAY too much sulfur. I was thinking of trying a different yeast. D47 seems to be idea but the temp profile says 59° to 68°F and I'll be lucky to keep it under 68; might be as high as 71 where this will ferment.

71B also seemed good but the "Juicy fruit" ester profile seemed inappropriate to me (admittedly a guess). Not sure what "High requirement of survival factors in O2-deficient musts" means though ... more nutrients needed?

I'll either be using a double/triple packet rehydrate pitch, or doing a small batch of Welches white wine as a starter. The experience of the collective is appreciated. :fro:
 
Well, you know my story by now. Premier Cuvee. It's all I've tried, and it's not even done yet, but I haven't noticed any smells yet (it's at 0.999). I used 1 packet for 8 gallons - probably grossly underpitched, but it seems okay so far.
 
I gave my 2c in the SP main thread but my vote is for 71b. 71b is great for rounding out sour musts and making it less tart and more naturally sour. With SP you are supposed to aerate the must often so the O2 requirements should not be an issue with this yeast. I never had any issues so far and I use 71b in most meads, wines and SP these days.

This one will sound weired but one yeast I have used with great success in meads is London ESB 1968. I have wanted to try that in a SP some time but so far I am happy enough with the 71b I do not have a lot of incentive to actually go through with it.

*Edit* If using one of these yeasts then the Welches White grape starter is the way to go. If you want to do a rehydrated over pitch then I would suggest Lalvin K1-v1116. You need a yeast that is a bit hardier to tackle that acidic must and as much as I like 71b. I would just be safe and do the Wine starter .
 
Arpolis, the only part that did not seem a perfect fit for the 71B is the temp. I did some searching around the Interwebz and found a general belief that it would be "hot" if fermented at 70 or above. Now granted we're talking about a less than delicate wine but I guess my experience with the Montrachet has left me gun shy. My thinking was fermenting at the top end (or even a degree or two over) may leave me with different issues. Do you have experience it's it that warm?

The Priemiere Cuvée was on my short list as well. The part that led me away from it was that it is reported to have "moderate" SO2 production ... I must admit I don't understand the impact of that since H2S is the culprit for Rhino farts but with all the sulfites already in the must from the juice I thought avoiding that and searching something that was low in both H2S and SO2 would be a good idea.

So that's where i came up with the DV10 which on paper seems perfect. The info on MoreWine indicates it has the "ability to ferment under stressful conditions of low pH, high total SO2 and low temperature, DV10 gives clean fermentations that preserve varietal fruit character while adding roundness and volume. DV10 has strong fermentation kinetics over a wide temperature range and has relatively low nitrogen demands. In addition, DV10 is low foaming with low VA and H2S production. All of these qualities make DV10 highly recommended for the production of the classic, premium still and sparkling white wine varietals, along with cider, fruit wines and mead. Best results from 50 to 85 degrees F, alcohol tolerant to 18%.". This seems to scream "hey pour me in a lemon juice acid bath" but aside from "adding roundness" it does not indicate an ability to mellow some of the acids like the 71B. It also does not seem to be widely available which may be a "clue" that it is not as perfect as I think.

Arpolis, can I impose upon you to post your Welches recipe one more time? I had it bookmarked but I guess I have too many bookmarks. I'll put it in Beersmith this time I promise. :)
 
I ferment 71b anywhere between 68*F - 73*F and I don't think it is hot. Now D47 at those temps vents out fusel alcohol which does taste hot.

My wenches recipe is simple as follows for 1 gallon.

4 11.5oz Welche's frozen fruit concentrate. (I like white grape peach but white grape should be great too)
1tbs of black tea (I like earl grey, if you want a less bitter wine then you can reduce to 1 or 2 tsp)
1 tsp pectic enzyme
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/2 tsp yeast energizer
Yeast
 
I ferment 71b anywhere between 68*F - 73*F and I don't think it is hot. Now D47 at those temps vents out fusel alcohol which does taste hot.

My wenches recipe is simple as follows for 1 gallon.

4 11.5oz Welche's frozen fruit concentrate. (I like white grape peach but white grape should be great too)
1tbs of black tea (I like earl grey, if you want a less bitter wine then you can reduce to 1 or 2 tsp)
1 tsp pectic enzyme
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/2 tsp yeast energizer
Yeast
Danke schön!

And ... "wenches recipe"? Freudian slip? :D

When you say black tea do you mean the leaves?
 
Yes strait black tea leaves, sorry. I get tea in bulk online but the little tea bags from Wally World are just about 1 tsp per baggy.


Haha I did not even catch the wenches recipe. Guess it sounded right in my head and I just keep on.
 
I went ahead and put this in my BeerSmith just for the sake of having it in the same place as my other recipes and notes. I attached the file if anyone else wants it. I had to add the 11.5oz Welch's to the list of "grains" as a sugar. According to the container there's 33g sugar in 60 ml of concentrate, and 340 ml in the container so 187g of sugar for a contribution of 1.017 OG/gallon/container. That makes this a 1.068 OG wine with am estimated ABV of 11%.

You know, just in case anyone is curious, or OCD like me. :p

View attachment Wench's Wine.bsmx
 
I only use 1118 to restart stuck fermentations. I think it is too aggressive of a fermenting yeast. Lots of people use 1118 to start SP by just rehydrating and overpitching, because it is a hard must to start but if you follow the SP website and use a yeast slurry then most any yeast will do just fine and you get a tastier product IMO.
 
I've made two batchs of SP so far, each with a single rehydrated package of EC1118. Both fermented great. Maybe this summer I will try to do two batchs of SP, one with rehydrated EC1118 and another with some 71B-1122 slurry from the Desire mead linked to in my signature.
 
Followup:

I made this batch, cold-crashed it and racked off into a handy gallon jug. I had a good bed of lees, probably 1/2" in the gallon jug. I added some sugar-water to get it going again as it came up to room temp, and pitched it into a 10G batch of SP.

Because I'm a man and I never follow directions I used only 1 tsp of tea. That ended up not being enough and the wine is too "bright". Just an addendum for anyone who follows this - use more.

This went into a 10G batch of SP as I said and I probably screwed it up somewhere. I think maybe my temps were too far off when I added the sugar water and/or didn't give the yeast enough time to re-wake up. After 48 hours I had no fermentation so I mixed up a fresh batch of 2 packets of 71B and used Go-Ferm and pitched. Fermentation was going in under 12 hours.

So, as I said I think maybe it was temps, or not giving it enough time to get going again. I did not wait to see a really active ferment with the sugar water before I pitched. When I did the second pitching I added ~40% must after the 20 minute rehydrate time, let it go for 15 minutes after which it was fizzy, then I added that volume again and let it go for 30 minutes after which it was fizzy as well. Then I pitched it in. Had I followed this process or something close to it for the lees it may have worked better.
 
Glad your batch is rolling along for ya. :mug: here is to a batch you will be more happy with.
 
I was discussing SP with a work mate and went to find this thread. I wanted to close the loop on it in case anyone tries to follow in my footsteps.

After the Go-Ferm treatment things took off like gangbusters. The overall impression was that the next time (and I have not done it again but will soon) I will rehydrate a double-shot of 71B with my Go-Ferm and skip the starter.

I aerated twice a day, VIGOROUSLY (with a wire whisk), until I got down to 1.050 at which point I let it finish naturally. This batch was much smoother, no sulfur smells, generally a better batch.
 
Back with more info.

The 71B is definitely the yeast I like for this. I think it enhances the fruitiness of the lemon juice, and it tolerates the temps found in most homes. It's not as strong a starter as the Montrachet or Champagne yeasts. I also don't often have the time/planning ability to create a batch before my batch. So, I wanted a good way to use 71B without pitching from a previous batch.

I did several batches where I rehydrated the 71B with Go-Ferm. I used two packets to start with. I had to aerate daily to get/keep it going and often I had to re-pitch. While the Narbonne is not often known for producing sulfur smells, I think the combination of the heavy sulfites used in the juice and the tough-to-start/ferment environment left some residual sulfur smells. I started racking with a copper racking cane which took care of most of those issues.

Still, I was reacting to what was going on, instead of knowing what would happen. I wanted a more prescriptive method that was easily reproduced. The face that heavy aeration and sometimes additional pitching was needed were my clues.

I obtained an aquarium pump, some tubing, a stainless steel 2 micron diffusion stone, an inline HEPA filter and an old racking cane. Add in a couple brass fittings to adapt the aquarium tubing to the 3/16" tubing and I had a workable aeration setup.

We all know the juice is loaded up with sulfites. The SkeeterPee.com website recipe recommends letting the must "breathe" for 24-48 hours. My experience was that it was still loaded up with sulfites after that time.

I prepared the must and instead of the yeast energizer and nutrient combo I used 1 gram/gallon of FermAid K. I used the aeration setup for 24 hours to blow off the sulfites and the next morning the must smelled quite a bit better. This was not just oxygenation, and I don't think straight O2 would work as well (and it would be ridiculously expensive). This was air stripping the sulfites out of solution.

Next, I rehydrated 3 packets (15 grams) of 71B with Go-Ferm according to the instructions ... 18.75g of Go-Ferm in to 375ml of 110 F water, let cool to 104 F, then add the 15 grams of yeast. Let sit for 20 mins then gradually add 375 ml of the must over 5 minutes. By the time the yeast starter dropped to within 10 F of the must it was sizzling happily.

I pitched the yeast starter and then left the aeration going 12 more hours. After that time I could tell by the smell things were going well. I sealed things up and within an hour or so, the airlock showed activity. After 4 hours I was getting a happy 1 bubble/sec.

Since I started at exactly 1.070 and I know when the fermentation is happy I get about 0.010 points drop every 24 hours I checked at approximately 48 hours after fermentation started. I was rewarded by an almost exact 1.050 reading. I added another 1g/gallon Fermaid K, the last lemon juice bottle, whisked lightly, and sealed it back up.

Now, 4 days later, the airlock activity is slowing and not once during the fermentation did I get rhino farts. I ALWAYS got some rhino farts previously. The airlock throughout the process smelled like clean yeast, lemons, and alcohol (likely because of the Everclear). I'm thrilled at the results and pretty sure I will be able to either rack to a secondary or just filter and keg in a day or so.

So, this was not me babying a batch that was not willing to start, it was not me having to time two batches, it was not me having to use a yeast other than the one I like. It was a completely prescriptive process that I believe will guarantee me success going forward. Granted it's only one time, but I've done enough batches of SP to know how it works. I feel pretty good about this.
 
Batch #3 in the books via this method (it's a thirsty summer!) I'm calling it good. Chances are I could use two or maybe even one packet with this method but it works now and I'm not going to mess with it.
 
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