Reissdorf Kolsch

I am trying to clone Reissdorf, but find that the vast majority of recipes I have tried miss the mark by a long shot. Many recipes call for Munich malt or late addition hops... both of which I find inappropriate. Reissdorf has the grainy sweetness that is obviously from being primarily pilsner malt, and I'm pretty sure that there would be single addition of Hallertau or Tettnang...but what is elluding me is that subtle apple and pear fruity notes. I'm not convinced that either Wyeast or Whitelabs Kolsch yeast are appropriate... they seem to leave too much bready notes. For fermentation I've feremented warm before (68F) and cool before (58) and everywhere inbetween... I just can't seem to capture that subtle fruitiness. Anyone have any ideas?

BigB said:

I am trying to clone Reissdorf, but find that the vast majority of recipes I have tried miss the mark by a long shot. Many recipes call for Munich malt or late addition hops... both of which I find inappropriate. Reissdorf has the grainy sweetness that is obviously from being primarily pilsner malt, and I'm pretty sure that there would be single addition of Hallertau or Tettnang...but what is elluding me is that subtle apple and pear fruity notes. I'm not convinced that either Wyeast or Whitelabs Kolsch yeast are appropriate... they seem to leave too much bready notes. For fermentation I've feremented warm before (68F) and cool before (58) and everywhere inbetween... I just can't seem to capture that subtle fruitiness. Anyone have any ideas?

Click to expand...

Perhaps Reissdorf's yeast strain has more ester production than the available homebrew yeasts from Wyeast and White labs. However, I've had very good results with both the WY1007 and the WLP-029 as beers with each do have a subtle winy character that comes out in the aroma. Again the aroma is subtle and more Chardonnay than apple/pear but experienced tasters and brewers pick it up most of the time.

Agree on the malt and hops. Definitely leave out the Munich and use a Pilsner malt base. I like a very small malted wheat addition, ~5%, because it seems to make the head a brighter white although that's a personal option. The Reissdorf I've tasted seems to have perhaps an IBU number in the mid to high teens. I like just a little more and brew mine to about 22-24 IBU with a small middle addition for a touch of flavor.

Thanks Ed. I was thinking Reissdorf was probably in the mid to high teens for IBU's as well. Have you ever tried WLP001 California Ale? I heard that has a pretty good apple/pear ester profile, but I've never known anyone to use it for a Kolsch. Also, I also like a touch of malted wheat. I agree completely with your assessment of it. Plus, Reissdorf is somewhat hazy which leaves me to believe that they as well use a touch of wheat... I think the haze is more than just yeast. Finally, the chardonnay notes you mention from the yeast is exactly what I get... I'm just mislabling as "bready." But it is definitely more winey than bready...but that is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I find the wine notes to be a bit overpowering. Granted, I've had some great Kolschs (scored 38+) from using whitelabs and Wyeast Kolsch strains but its not quite the profile I am looking for.

BigB said:

Thanks Ed. I was thinking Reissdorf was probably in the mid to high teens for IBU's as well. Have you ever tried WLP001 California Ale? I heard that has a pretty good apple/pear ester profile, but I've never known anyone to use it for a Kolsch.

Click to expand...

I'm not a big fan of the 001/056 yeast although I think I've seen it suggested in some recipes. Myself, I like the winey edge that the 029/1007 gives. If you truly want apple/pear maybe try an English strain.

BigB said:

Also, I also like a touch of malted wheat. I agree completely with your assessment of it. Plus, Reissdorf is somewhat hazy which leaves me to believe that they as well use a touch of wheat... I think the haze is more than just yeast.

Click to expand...

The haze might be something other than the wheat. My Kolsch is always pretty clear and the few times I had Reissdorf it had good clarity too.

If Wyeast brings out the Kolsch II yeast again that might be something worth trying.

I decided to go with Cry Havoc. The more research I do, I find that it might be exactly what I'm looking for. I was never thrilled about using California Ale because to get the apple/pear I would have had to ferment warmer than I wanted to.

Don't get me wrong, Reissdorf is pretty clear... Just not as clear as some beers... particularly beers that have been lagered. For a cold conditioned beer like Reissdorf, I would expect it to be clearer if it didn't have wheat.

Me and my friend killed this one last sat night, I was hoping for more flavor, but I found it to be very clear.

BigB said:

Thanks Ed. I was thinking Reissdorf was probably in the mid to high teens for IBU's as well. Have you ever tried WLP001 California Ale? I heard that has a pretty good apple/pear ester profile, but I've never known anyone to use it for a Kolsch. Also, I also like a touch of malted wheat. I agree completely with your assessment of it. Plus, Reissdorf is somewhat hazy which leaves me to believe that they as well use a touch of wheat... I think the haze is more than just yeast. Finally, the chardonnay notes you mention from the yeast is exactly what I get... I'm just mislabling as "bready." But it is definitely more winey than bready...but that is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I find the wine notes to be a bit overpowering. Granted, I've had some great Kolschs (scored 38+) from using whitelabs and Wyeast Kolsch strains but its not quite the profile I am looking for.

Click to expand...

Anyone in search of the perfect Kolsch is cool in my book. Just curious ever used Global Cologne malt?

No I haven't. Never even heard of it. Where have you found it?

bethebrew said:

Anyone in search of the perfect Kolsch is cool in my book. Just curious ever used Global Cologne malt?

Click to expand...

Ditto. I'm on the same journey. Subed

BigB said:

No I haven't. Never even heard of it. Where have you found it?

Click to expand...

Midwest sells it was Global Kolsch Malt

Cool, thanks! I'll try that for the next batch. I like the description that they provide.

Global Kolsch malt is rather "malty". I've used up to 5 lbs in a 11 gallon batch and the maltiness was quite high.

I've also been experimenting quite a bit in the search for the "perfect kolsch".

Wyeast 1007 was completely off. I have no plans to reuse that yeast.

My Kolsch have always been a bit too malty, and not quite as crisp, as Reissdorf.

MC

The Koelsch malt thing that some stores sell is a little misleading because it is a pale malt, whereas the base for Koelsch is clearly Pilsner (as evidenced by the typically "grainy" taste and very light color). Playing with very small amounts of other base malts (but no crystals) can help you fine-tune the flavor profile. I like a touch (1/4 lbs or so) of melanoidin and have played with very small additions of acidulated malt in the past as well, even though neither is likely to be part of the grain bill of actual Koelsch breweries.

The only yeasts I would use for trying to brew a Koelsch are the White Labs and Wyeast Koelsch strains (although I am not a huge fan of either one of them), White Labs 011 European Ale, and possibly the East Coast Yeast Koelsch, though I have not used that one myself.

The fruitiness is a tricky issue - it should be barely detectable. I have a few theories on that as well, but given that I haven't brewed a Koelsch in over a year, I haven't had a chance to disprove my ideas yet.

Looking forward to following this thread (and putting a Angry Angel Koelsch, my favorite American Koelsch, in the fridge for tonight after work).

ArcaneXor said:

The Koelsch malt thing that some stores sell is a little misleading because it is a pale malt, whereas the base for Koelsch is clearly Pilsner (as evidenced by the typically "grainy" taste and very light color).

Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. Yes, I agree that Reissdorf, in particular, is clearly pilsner. So, maybe the Global Malt wouldn't be appropriate for that.

ArcaneXor said:

The only yeasts I would use for trying to brew a Koelsch are the White Labs and Wyeast Koelsch strains (although I am not a huge fan of either one of them),

Click to expand...

Yeah, I've tried both at multiple temperatures and am not thrilled with either. Thats why I figured I'd try the cry havoc...but only because that yeast reportedly throws off some apple and pear esters at ale temps.

ArcaneXor said:

The fruitiness is a tricky issue - it should be barely detectable. I have a few theories on that as well, but given that I haven't brewed a Koelsch in over a year, I haven't had a chance to disprove my ideas yet.

Click to expand...

What's your theories? Maybe I've tried a couple or maybe I'll try to test one of yours.

Found some more info regarding Reissdorf... It is fermented at 65-68 F using an ale yeast. After that it is cold conditioned for approximately 4 weeks under pressure and is allowed to naturally carbonate. Finally, it is filtered.

Figured I should update this. I tried the Cry Havoc. It was good and did have the apple and pear notes, but probably a little too much. It was a tasty beer (scored 37.5 at MBC), just not "kolsch" enough. It was lighter and fruitier than Reissdorf, but not Reissdorf. I will go back to square one and start messing with more variables.

Subscribed.

Any progress with this clone? Reissdorf Kolsch is awesome with a ton of balance and drinkability. The head brewer's skill really shines through in the beer.

My guess is 1.045 OG / 1.009 FG.

85-88% Best Malz Pils, 8-11% Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Wheat, and 3-4% Best Malz Caramel Pils.

2 oz. total Saphir pellet hops split at FWH & 0 min only for 19 IBUs.

Not sure about the yeast. Leaning toward WLP003 ~ Good for Kölsch, Alt, and German style Pale Ales. Strong sulfur component will reduce with aging. Clean, but with more ester production than WLP029. Up to 80% attenuation and medium floc. 65-70 F fermentation zone. Does not ferment well at less than 62 F.

I have one that is carbonating right now. I went back to 029, but fermented considerably colder, filtered, and modified the recipe a little.

Can you post your recipe now? And later, post your results? Did you see what I wrote about a possible yeast choice in the last post I made?

I was fortunate to judge light hybrid beers at the Homebrew Festival at the WEB. The recipe listed is what the brewer emailed to me. I scored his beer at 42, he took gold. This beer was the closest to Reissdorf I ever tasted. It truly was an excellent beer. My recipe is nearly identical to this. My amounts are slightly different as I get around 75% efficiency. Also, I didn't use the acid as I don't have a problem with Mash PH. I never tried WLP003... Let us know if you use it.

All Grain. 65% expected efficiency. 5.5 gallon batch.

OG = 1.049
FG = 1.010

Ingredients:
10.25 Weyermann Pils
.5 Weyermann Vienna
.25 Weyermann Wheat

24 IBUs of Hallertau @ 60 minutes

WLP 029 with appropriate sized starter

Process:

Mash @ 149 for 90 minutes. Single batch sparge. No mash out.
Add 1 tsp phosphoric acid 10% to mash water.
Add 2 tsp phosphoric acid 10% to sparge water.
Boil 90 minutes. Add hops @ 60 minutes.
Chill to 58. Ferment at 58. Increase to 62 when fermentation starts to slow (was after 1 week).

I ran it through a filter after a few weeks in the keg because the yeast was really powdery. Tasted way better after filtering. I am planning to cut a few IBU next time. It wasn't that great until last month... the bitterness mellowed out recently.

BigB said:

I ran it through a filter after a few weeks in the keg because the yeast was really powdery. Tasted way better after filtering. I am planning to cut a few IBU next time. It wasn't that great until last month... the bitterness mellowed out recently.

Click to expand...

I have one at house sitting, with 27 IBU's, and it's also a bit too bitter. I'm sure it will mellow out over time, too.

Looks like this:

MC

FYI... The glass is an iced-tea glass from World Market.

MC

I tasted mine out of curiosity last night. I used the 24 IBUs for the sake of replication. But yeah, it is definitely too much. That's ok, I'll lager this one for a month or two and check it again. The underlying beer seemed good so far though.