My new goal- $10.00 to make 5 gallons

TMadness1013 said:

For those at the proper latitude, you should look into growing your own hops. Definitely will save you a good bit of cash if you use them year after year.

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I actually had a question about this

I know dry hops are dangerous for dogs, so I make sure I'm careful with them to not drop any when I'm brewing, since I have 2 dogs. Is that the same with growing live ones? If they ate a cone, is that a chance of death as well?

I don't think they'd be much interested in hops of any sort on the vine, to be honest. My dogs hate basically anything green.

Found [post="461095"]one scenario for hops killing a dog[/post].

Hops problem is related to labs and greyhounds. If you Google it, you will find people using hops as a natural pesticide. The problem is when hops are mixed with wort and then the dogs eat it. The sweet smell of the wort is what the dogs like.

I am on my second year for hops. My dogs only touch the bines as a chew toy. This was after harvest.

What is really cool about this thread are the tips giving to take the hobby further. It was so much more than making a $10.00 beer (which is possible) but it's about saving $10 to $20 off every beer you make.

I agree, really great money saving tips!

I didn't reach my goal yet, but I did make a 3 gallon batch for $9.00 in supplies!

Has anyone suggested a Berliner Weisse? You could get 5lbs of pale grain for less than 10 bucks and you're done! Use a couple spoons of the raw grain, and a 1 pint sugar water starter of 1.030 gravity to grow some Lacto and Brett, and pitch that. No purchase of hops or yeast necessary. You dont really need to boil long either so you save on energy costs.

Growing hops is seriously simple if you have some available space with full sun. This was only my 2nd year and from 4 rhizomes I got ~6 pounds. And that was growing in a fence, not up a trellis. It greatly saves cost. Toss in a few ounces of rye and a great session IPA with some pizazz is easily doable on the cheap.

The thing I get from this thread is there are many ways to make good beer. Some cheaper than others but it all ends up as beer.

I also learned that spending a bunch of money doesn't mean you'll make great beer. And vice versa, spending only a little doesn't mean you can't make great beer.

Most home brew competitions are based on style and/or gravity categories. There are so many entries for Big Beers. It would be interesting to see a category for best beer under a specific total dollar amount, ingredients only, including adjuncts. Say $15 or $20 max so as not to narrow the field too much. It would be difficult to calculate and verify specific costs for different fuels and water (bottled, distilled, filtered etc).

This has a foreshadowing of becoming one of those threads that grows and gains momentum. Seventeen pages in 4 weeks.

Is anyone familiar enough with Google docs to set up a spreadsheet/database ...source, price, quantity/recipe, others?

I'm in groups at work, but I've never set one up myself.

Dynachrome said:

This has a foreshadowing of becoming one of those threads that grows and gains momentum. Seventeen pages in 4 weeks.

Is anyone familiar enough with Google docs to set up a spreadsheet/database ...source, price, quantity/recipe, others?

I'm in groups at work, but I've never set one up myself.

Click to expand...

I'm going to bump this thread-- i see it incredibly ironic, and unfortunate, that this was the final post.

foodplusbeer said:

Has anyone suggested a Berliner Weisse? You could get 5lbs of pale grain for less than 10 bucks and you're done! Use a couple spoons of the raw grain, and a 1 pint sugar water starter of 1.030 gravity to grow some Lacto and Brett, and pitch that. No purchase of hops or yeast necessary. You dont really need to boil long either so you save on energy costs.

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I'm interested. How long for the boil? How long do you let the starter sit?

I'd like to do this one, also curious if it would render a primary or keg "sours only" after that.

Looking back at this thread, it's really not that hard to make 5 gallons of many brews for $10 ($2/gal), excluding the cost of fuels.

My LHBS sells 2-row at $0.78/lb in bulk, specialty grains at $1.71/lb, Wyeast at $6.50, White Labs at $7.25, dry packets $3-4 each and I buy my hops in bulk at $8-12 per lb. Using my own purchase prices and inventory, BeerSmith tells me the last 7 batches cost (alphabetically sorted):

*Black Pearl Porter - 10.50 gal - $31.52 - $3.00/gal
Centennial Blonde - 10.50 gal - $21.23 - $2.02/gal
Cream of Three Crops - 10.50 gal - $24.78 - $2.36/gal
Haus Pale Ale - 10.50 gal - $28.95 - $2.75/gal
*Kona Fire Rock Clone - 11.50 gal - $38.40 - $3.34/gal
Reaper's Mild - 10.50 gal - $27.38 - $2.60/gal
*Stone Ruination Clone - 10.50 gal - $46.98 - $4.47/gal

Cream of Three Crops comes out the clear winner, but it's lacking in flavor to me. I'm kegging EdWort's Haus Pale Ale today, but it already looks super promising to me. If I decide to keep it always on tap, I'll buy a full sack of Vienna (19% of grist), bringing the price of that grain down 37%. That would make 10.50 gallons $25.85, or $2.46/gal. The same could be said for buying a full sack of Chocolate malt for Milds.

If I didn't live in CA, my grain costs would be substantially lower, driving both recipes well below $2/gal.

* these recipe used 1 Wyeast or White Labs liquid yeast, plus a few cents of all-grain canned starter. All other recipes used two packets of dry yeast, rehydrated.

Taking it a step farther, look for styles that are low in ABV or use few specialty malts. Less hoppy brews using cheaper noble hops save addition cash. Look at the price of retailer's kits for a hint as to which styles cost the least to brew:

My LHBS's 10 cheapest all-grain kits:

Belgian Table Beer
Mild
Pale
Pale
Pale
Porter (includes honey)
Pale
Stout
Pale
Brown

Midwest's 10 cheapest kits:

Pale
Stout
Red
Mild
Porter
Brown
Stout
Mexican
Scottish Light
English Bitter

Northern Brewer:

English Pale
Mild
American Wheat
Red
American Pale
Cream
Light lager
Scottish
Pale
Amber

Edit: If you include the cost of bulk EC-1118 and grocery store apple juice on sale, it's hard to beat the cost of Apfelwein boosted with 2# of table sugar per point ABV. At $4 gal and $.60/lb, you can make a 5 gallons of 9% hooch for about $22. Again, cheaper during sales.

I routinely make 5 gallon batches of good sparkling hard cider at about 6.1% ABV for $12.84, not including the cost of CO2.

Now sure if Cider counts I buy Apple Juice when it's about $1 / half gallon. So I bought 11 for $11 and made 5.5 gallon batch of Hard Cider. Plus I already had a 4lb bag of Brown Sugar and used that. Mine came out at 10.35% ABV. Now to be honest though, I bought liquid yeast this time around which was about $6, plus I dry hopped it.

So about 4.5 Gallons of Hopped Cider
1 Gallon of Apple Jack

probably cost me around $20. This summer I'm going to hit up my Apple Orchard though and see if I can get some cider cheaper. Also, next time I'm going to make 11 gallons at a time, and make a 2L starter out of the liquid yeast to make it cheaper and dump it into 2 buckets.

thadius856 said:

Looking back at this thread, it's really not that hard to make 5 gallons of many brews for $10 ($2/gal), excluding the cost of fuels.

My LHBS sells 2-row at $0.78/lb in bulk, specialty grains at $1.71/lb, Wyeast at $6.50, White Labs at $7.25, dry packets $3-4 each and I buy my hops in bulk at $8-12 per lb. Using my own purchase prices and inventory, BeerSmith tells me the last 7 batches cost (alphabetically sorted):

*Black Pearl Porter - 10.50 gal - $31.52 - $3.00/gal
Centennial Blonde - 10.50 gal - $21.23 - $2.02/gal
Cream of Three Crops - 10.50 gal - $24.78 - $2.36/gal
Haus Pale Ale - 10.50 gal - $28.95 - $2.75/gal
*Kona Fire Rock Clone - 11.50 gal - $38.40 - $3.34/gal
Reaper's Mild - 10.50 gal - $27.38 - $2.60/gal
*Stone Ruination Clone - 10.50 gal - $46.98 - $4.47/gal

Cream of Three Crops comes out the clear winner, but it's lacking in flavor to me. I'm kegging EdWort's Haus Pale Ale today, but it already looks super promising to me. If I decide to keep it always on tap, I'll buy a full sack of Vienna (19% of grist), bringing the price of that grain down 37%. That would make 10.50 gallons $25.85, or $2.46/gal. The same could be said for buying a full sack of Chocolate malt for Milds.

If I didn't live in CA, my grain costs would be substantially lower, driving both recipes well below $2/gal.

* these recipe used 1 Wyeast or White Labs liquid yeast, plus a few cents of all-grain canned starter. All other recipes used two packets of dry yeast, rehydrated.

Click to expand...

thadius856 said:

Taking it a step farther, look for styles that are low in ABV or use few specialty malts. Less hoppy brews using cheaper noble hops save addition cash. Look at the price of retailer's kits for a hint as to which styles cost the least to brew:

My LHBS's 10 cheapest all-grain kits:

Belgian Table Beer
Mild
Pale
Pale
Pale
Porter (includes honey)
Pale
Stout
Pale
Brown

Midwest's 10 cheapest kits:

Pale
Stout
Red
Mild
Porter
Brown
Stout
Mexican
Scottish Light
English Bitter

Northern Brewer:

English Pale
Mild
American Wheat
Red
American Pale
Cream
Light lager
Scottish
Pale
Amber

Edit: If you include the cost of bulk EC-1118 and grocery store apple juice on sale, it's hard to beat the cost of Apfelwein boosted with 2# of table sugar per point ABV. At $4 gal and $.60/lb, you can make a 5 gallons of 9% hooch for about $22. Again, cheaper during sales.

Click to expand...

Interesting and informative, thanks!

naga77777 said:

... incredibly ironic, and unfortunate...

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My middle names.

I think it cost me like 50cents in electricity to brew a 5.5 gallon batch with my electric setup.

I found valuebrews kits and ingredient prices to be the best I've encountered as of yet.... and shipping is very reasonable too.... 5 gallon all grain kits start at like $14! Even with shipping its like $20 for me. Combined shipping makes multiple items cheaper... I bought my specialty grains, hops and yeast packets there and use my local lhbs for stuff I don't stock and my sacks (which have a huge markup but hey I got to support the local shop they are very helpful and convenient...)

http://www.valuebrew.com/collections/ingredient-kits

augiedoggy said:

I think it cost me like 50cents in electricity to brew a 5.5 gallon batch with my electric setup.

Click to expand...

I wish I could get close to that on my electric setup. I'm in California and my brewing is "on top of" all other electrical use in the house so I figure it costs a little over $.30 per KWH. I haven't metered my rig, but I run a 4500 W element in my HLT for probably 1.5 hr total (doubles as a herms) and the 5500 W element in the BK maybe an hour. I figure between this and running my well pump I'm at $3.50 - $4.00 per batch. Still, no worse than what I used to spend for propane. I suppose I could use wood; I have tons of "free" wood.

mine might actually be a bit more...I estimated off of kals numbers..(I have noticed no real increase in my electric bill ).. Being that I live 5 minutes from the niagara falls power damn you would thing our power would be cheaper than most but they sell the power to canada and NYC and we pay the same premiums as everyone else so I'm told..
If it makes you feel any better we have some of the highest gasoline prices in the country... although no one has a good reason why..

So for a 4% abv pale ale:

Malt: ~$40 for a 50# sack of 2 row= $0.80/# x 7#= $5.60 for base malt + ~$1 for 1/2# of crystal malt ($6.60 total for malt)
Yeast: $4 for a pack of US05 divided by say, 5 generations= $0.80 total for yeast.
Hops: I have ordered bulk hops for ~$10-$20/# including shipping so if you want Amarillo pale ale, forget it. But hops like Cascade, Columbus, and Chinook can be ~$0.80/ounce x 3 ounces = $2.40 total for hops.
Energy: I can get about 6 brews out of a 20# propane tank for which I pay $11, so <$2 for propane. I biab on my electric stove top. So that's a 1200 watt burner on high for maybe 2 hours (2 1/2 kilowatts x ~15¢/kw= <$0.40)

Factor in sanitizer, priming sugar, CO2, bottle caps, etc and you're over $10 but still quite frugal, nonetheless.

I recently bought 90 Lb of grain, 1 1/8 lb of hops, and 4 smack packs of yeast. I'm going to brew 8 beers with all of that, reusing the yeast to brew the same beer twice (4 different beers, brewed 2x each). With shipping, my ingredients cost me just under 25 dollars per 5 gallon batch. Of course, I bought Marris Otter instead of 2-row, and the hops were bought by the ounce.

This is the largest purchase I've ever made, which includes a 55 lb bag of Marris Otter. I'd like to be able to bring the cost, per 5 gallon batch, to 10 bucks or less, but I'm skeptical. My biggest issue would be quality. What kind of product I'd be making.

I thought 25 bucks was good. If someone can consistently brew a 5 gallon batch for 10 bucks or less (for the ingredients), and brew a decent beer, my hat is off to you.

I buy all my hops for the year in December or so, averaging around $10/lb. 2-row is $35 for 50 lbs at my LHBS (and I pick it up on my cargo bike, so no gasoline costs!). Crystal is $1.65/lb. So a 5 gal. keg of pale ale using 4oz of boil hops and 2oz of dry hops, 10 lb. of base malt, and 1 lb. of crystal (these are my average numbers) is $12.40, assuming I re-use yeast. None of this counts sanitizer, co2, or propane/natural gas, of course. But still, that's awfully inexpensive for excellent beer.

smccarter said:

I recently bought 90 Lb of grain, 1 1/8 lb of hops, and 4 smack packs of yeast. I'm going to brew 8 beers with all of that, reusing the yeast to brew the same beer twice (4 different beers, brewed 2x each). With shipping, my ingredients cost me just under 25 dollars per 5 gallon batch. Of course, I bought Marris Otter instead of 2-row, and the hops were bought by the ounce.

This is the largest purchase I've ever made, which includes a 55 lb bag of Marris Otter. I'd like to be able to bring the cost, per 5 gallon batch, to 10 bucks or less, but I'm skeptical. My biggest issue would be quality. What kind of product I'd be making.

I thought 25 bucks was good. If someone can consistently brew a 5 gallon batch for 10 bucks or less (for the ingredients), and brew a decent beer, my hat is off to you.

Click to expand...

I don't think the question is quality so much as style. A well crafted Mild is a relatively light grain bill and light on the Hops budget. It can be brewed to medal standards and still be extremely cheap to produce. Same goes for Light Lagers, Ordinary Bitters, Cream Ales. They may not be style the brewer desires, but they can still be of extremely high quality (decent beer).

Now, try and brew a double IPA or even a hopped up American Amber, and the shear ingredeints to get the beer to style standards will push you out of your $10 per 5 gallon budget...even if you produce 5 gallons of swill.

BierMuncher said:

I don't think the question is quality so much as style. A well crafted Mild is a relatively light grain bill and light on the Hops budget. It can be brewed to medal standards and still be extremely cheap to produce. Same goes for Light Lagers, Ordinary Bitters, Cream Ales. They may not be style the brewer desires, but they can still be of extremely high quality (decent beer).

Now, try and brew a double IPA or even a hopped up American Amber, and the shear ingredeints to get the beer to style standards will push you out of your $10 per 5 gallon budget...even if you produce 5 gallons of swill.

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Bingo. I just calculated the cost of a 1047/ 35IBU sMasH Pils @ around $13.50 for 6.5 gallons. Bulk hops/ grain/ re-used yeast. Maybe $17 all together after bottling and fuel. If I get 60 beers that puts me just under 30 cents/ beer.

big ol' RIS on the other hand.... not quite so cheap until you compare to commercial.

smccarter said:

... I bought Marris Otter instead of 2-row, and the hops were bought by the ounce...

..I thought 25 bucks was good. If someone can consistently brew a 5 gallon batch for 10 bucks or less (for the ingredients), and brew a decent beer, my hat is off to you.

Click to expand...

I started using Marris Otter too. It makes a nice beer.

Side note, I think I'd just figure the cost of ingredients. ...personal point of view. I have to pay lights, mortgage taxes, insurance etc... couple bucks in natural gas, NBD.

-Cluster Flocc'd- ...Noice!

ong said:

...averaging around $10/lb.

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Did I read that correctly? $10 per pound of grain?!

smccarter said:

I thought 25 bucks was good. If someone can consistently brew a 5 gallon batch for 10 bucks or less (for the ingredients), and brew a decent beer, my hat is off to you.

Click to expand...

For your chart, what ABV are you achieving. It looks a tidge on the higher side.

$425 per year, huh? I'm glad I never added mine up. I might have to cut back or quit.

$10 not possible in Canada, but if you factor in that a 6 pk of Mirror Pond goes for $15 here spending $30-40/batch is still a major savings

I have figured the average style of beer in the 4.5 to 5.5% range will cost me around $0.40 to $0.60 a 12oz beer. This not including equipment or sanitizer. Incudes propane yeast bottlecaps etc. If i can make a beer better than a pbr at $0.40 a can it is a win.

The equipment cost is what gets you. Which in the end the equipment will retain most value and the initial cost diminishes with the beer produced.

I think we are getting away from the heart of this thread. The reality is, if you are the brewer who, by whatever circumstances, needs to brew a beer at home, and do it albeit inexpensively, it can be done. A cream ale, a brown ale, a pale ale, even a Kölsch, etc. tasty, quality, made at home beer CAN be made, at home, for $5 a case. And thats cool! An RIS? An IPA?? A dopple bock!! Thats like a Christmas gift! I've been on both sides of the fence, poor, and far better off. This gives us a place to adventure into the life well lived. Even if the bank acct cant support a hobby. Jus sayin


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If u invest in flip top bottles, the rubber washers can be reused approx 5 times. Free bottles, caps are $2 a case for the good ones. Washed yeast. Bleach and Dawn for cleaning and sanitizing. get free food grade buckets from a restaurant. Invest in an autosiphon. SMASH recipes, low abv, adjuncts like cooking rice or corn from a garden or quaker oats. Pumpkin for pumpkin beers. Spruce tips in the spring, you can make alot of beers. Cheap.


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Low-hopped beers, beers with table sugar (in moderation, in the style of UK Bitters, etc), reusing yeast, bulk grain buys, using inexpensive adjunct, and sparging a LONGER time to get a higher efficiency will get you there.

My last batch of hefeweizen was $8.85 for 10-gallons.

MC

When I am running low, I make a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort with approximately 8 lbs 2 row. Mash at 148. Collect 5.5 gallons and boil 30 min with 1/4 oz hops. At flame out I fill 24 qt jars and in the end I have canned 5 gallons (24 qt jars or a combination or pint and qt jars) of wort. I use this for starters, bottle conditioning and meeting target post boil volumes. I dont buy DME anymore and rarely buy corn sugar. BIG $$ saver!!


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johnpcook1 said:

I make a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort with approximately 8 lbs 2 row. Mash at 148. Collect 5.5 gallons and boil 30 min with 1/4 oz hops. At flame out I fill 24 qt jars and in the end I have canned 5 gallons (24 qt jars or a combination or pint and qt jars) of wort.

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Do you put the jars through an actual canning cycle after filling them, or do you just fill them and seal them straight from the boil kettle? Do you chill the wort before filling the jars? What kind of jar lids do you use - the screw-on kind, or the 2-piece lid and locking ring kind?

I'd be nervous about contamination without a full high-temperature canning cycle, and exploding jars if you're using regular screw-on lids or leaving the locking rings on in the case of 2-piece lids. Boiled wort is not sterile, nor are the jars and lids.

Misplaced_Canuck said:

Low-hopped beers, beers with table sugar (in moderation, in the style of UK Bitters, etc), reusing yeast, bulk grain buys, using inexpensive adjunct, and sparging a LONGER time to get a higher efficiency will get you there.

My last batch of hefeweizen was $8.85 for 10-gallons.

MC

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That's a heckuva deal! More details, please! I figure grain & hops at my bulk costs run just over $9.50 for a 5.5 gal batch of hef.

kombat said:

Do you put the jars through an actual canning cycle after filling them, or do you just fill them and seal them straight from the boil kettle? Do you chill the wort before filling the jars? What kind of jar lids do you use - the screw-on kind, or the 2-piece lid and locking ring kind?

I'd be nervous about contamination without a full high-temperature canning cycle, and exploding jars if you're using regular screw-on lids or leaving the locking rings on in the case of 2-piece lids. Boiled wort is not sterile, nor are the jars and lids.

Click to expand...

I dont have a pressure cooker available, so when the mash is complete, I put the clean jars in the oven at 200 deg for 20 min jus like I do my bottles. The lids and rings go in boiling water. After I boil the wort for 30 min, I flame out and pour directly into the jars leaving about 3/8" headspace and put a lid and ring on and tighten it. If it pops down, I keep it. When I open a jar, it has to have a nice "pop" and hissing sound, look, smell, and taste right. The small amount of hops also acts as a preservative.
This method works for all types of canning food, and maybe I am missing something here, but with a mash ph of appox 5.0, and boiling the wort, lids, rings and essentially jars, what bacteria can be present? I know that green beans when canned have to be placed in a pressure cooker to kill bocculism (sp) but thats the only food that my mom put in a pressure cooker. She was a home economics teacher and taught me how to can food. She jus never canned wort.


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johnpcook1 said:

I put the clean jars in the oven at 200 deg for 20 min jus like I do my bottles. The lids and rings go in boiling water. After I boil the wort for 30 min, I flame out and pour directly into the jars leaving about 3/8" headspace and put a lid and ring on and tighten it. If it pops down, I keep it. When I open a jar, it has to have a nice "pop" and hissing sound, look, smell, and taste right.

Click to expand...

Perfect, that sounds like a good practice. At least this way, if you do get any kind of contamination, the lid will unseat rather than the jar exploding (which, of course, is the entire point of the design in the first place).

johnpcook1 said:

This method works for all types of canning food

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I'm relatively new to canning myself, but I don't believe that's true. As I understand it, canning is divided into two primary categories: High-acid things that can be safely canned in a boiling water bath, and low-acid things that must be pressure canned at 250° F. Wort is a sugary, low-acid solution that fits under the "must be pressure canned" at 250 °F category.

Can you get away with simply boiling it and bottling it? I would imagine that would work most of the time (as your experience seems to prove), especially if you're using the wort relatively soon after bottling it.

johnpcook1 said:

and maybe I am missing something here, but with a mash ph of appox 5.0, and boiling the wort, lids, rings and essentially jars, what bacteria can be present?

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Clostridium botulinum, the bacteria that produces the neurotoxin that causes botulism. And plain old boiling is not a panacea. According to Wikipedia:

Although the botulinum toxin is destroyed by thorough cooking over the course of a few minutes, the spore itself is not killed by the temperatures reached with normal sea-level-pressure boiling, leaving it free to grow and again produce the toxin when conditions are right. Commercially canned goods are required to undergo a "botulinum cook" in a pressure cooker at 121 °C (250 °F) for 3 minutes, and so rarely cause botulism

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johnpcook1 said:

I know that green beans when canned have to be placed in a pressure cooker to kill bocculism (sp) but thats the only food that my mom put in a pressure cooker. She was a home economics teacher and taught me how to can food. She just never canned wort.

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As I mentioned, the acidity of the food being canned is a big factor in determining whether you can get away with a simple water bath, or if you require the higher temperature that can only be achieved with an autoclave or a pressure canner. From Wikipedia's page on Home Canning:

Unless the food being preserved has a high acid (pH <4.6), salt or sugar content (resulting in water availability <0.85), such as pickles or jellies, the filled jars are also processed under pressure in a canner, a specialized type of pressure cooker. Ordinary pressure cookers are not recommended for canning as their smaller size and the reduced thickness of the cooker wall will not allow for the correct building up and reducing time of pressure, which is factored into the overall processing time and therefore will not destroy all the harmful microorganisms. The goal in using a pressure canner is to achieve a "botulinum cook" of 121°C for 3 minutes, throughout the entire volume of canned product.

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Wort falls under the category of "things that must be heated to 250° F for at least 3 minutes" in order to ensure complete eradication of Clostridium botulinum. But again, as I said, if you're using them within a few days, or you discard the ones whose lids have popped (indicating the production of gas suggesting bacterial activity), you're probably fine. But don't quote me on that. I pressure can all my starter wort, as is recommended.

Kombat, thanks for doing the legwork there. And it sounds like pressure canning may be a better practice. Ive used wort that has been canned for 3 months with no problems. I would think that any bacteria would present itself either as something I would see, smell, or taste or it would affect the jar in someway, ie popping the lid, but it sounds like I need to do some more research.


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