The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

Reno_eNVy said:

Well sure, but MLS recognizes both. Most points in the season is the Supporters Shield winner. The winner of the playoffs in MLS Cup champion.

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Yeah, they recognize both, but who gets invited to the white house? Who gets referred to as the MLS champions (I understand that the official title would be MLS Cup Champions, but anytime someone says "MLS Champions", they're not talking about the supporters shield winner). I think its hard to argue that the MLS cup, i.e. the playoff format, is not the one that is held in highest regard in MLS.

Interestingly, if you look at the supporters shield vs the MLS cup, 8 teams have won the supporters shield vs 9 for the MLS Cup. So at least in the case of the MLS, it hasn't been a situation where meaningfully more teams have won the MLS cup, even though it would seem playoff format should lead to more variability due to the "hot streak" scenario.

Honestly, if major European leagues had the same salary cap structure as the MLS, I would expect more parity there as well.

Got to tell you, I was expecting the Mexicans to run all over us too. I can't explain it. Were they that bad or we that good? I'm talking defensively only! With Jozy as the top choice forward, our chances of offense are pretty poor. For his size, he just doesn't impress me.
Central Defense played well in Mexico. Could have had a penalty called on us, but wasn't.

Dragon30 said:

Got to tell you, I was expecting the Mexicans to run all over us too. I can't explain it. Were they that bad or we that good? I'm talking defensively only! With Jozy as the top choice forward, our chances of offense are pretty poor. For his size, he just doesn't impress me.
Central Defense played well in Mexico. Could have had a penalty called on us, but wasn't.

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Mexico did run all over us. But they couldn't turn their domination into goals, which is both a testament to the US defense and a knock on the Mexican execution, both in creating chances and converting.

Jozy is a quality forward. He held the ball up well against Mexico. He hasn't scored in forever, but when was the last time he got any decent service where you thought, boy, he should have converted that one. He's not great at creating something out of nothing, but very few players are. Just look at what he's doing for AZ, where he actually gets good service from his surrounding players.

Anyone follow the Scottish Premier League?
If so, can someone explain the proposed restructuring of the league system?
As in, what is the purpose of consolidating to 3 divisions, but then going back to 4 divisions, with only 8 teams in the top 3?

I'd be willing to bet it's money issues. From what I understand a lot of SPL clubs are hurting financially.

Been watching soccer now for about 6 months Channels showed up on fios. What's with the refs in international play? They suck. Bpl seems better for refs. I don't think they have rooted out all the playoffs. Champions league is the worst.

Reno_eNVy said:

I'd be willing to bet it's money issues. From what I understand a lot of SPL clubs are hurting financially.

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Indeed. I'm a little worried about Hearts going into administration.
If that happens, along with the restructuring, it will be another pompey in the making.

I'm guessing its just a way of consolidating the distribution of tv revenues?

Goal Line Technology is official, mofos!

http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/organ...tml?intcmp=fifacom_hp_module_media_statements

Good god finally

Well, there it was...the lack of consistency.
Karim Benzema raised a boot to a players chest in a 50/50 challenge, no card, no foul.

I'm sure the United fan boys will be blowing up the internet with GIFs.

Reno_eNVy said:

Oh I know you were implying UEFA. My issue with putting a huge emphasis on UEFA Champions League is that these European leagues are soooo proud of not having playoffs when that's essentially what CL is.

Yes, MLSers don't change clubs in order to be on a CCL club but you can be darn sure they would change to be on a playoff club. Not only that but the participating CCL and MLS playoffs clubs are constantly shifting. Fun fact: there have been as many if not more different league champions in MLSs 17 year history than the entire history of either Premiere League or La Liga. That just makes it more exciting than the same four clubs winning the league or the same clubs over and over in Champions League.

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I disagree here the champions league is not the same as play-offs. Particularly since the teams are all from different leagues. I have no problem with the play offs in MLS - but his is not a fair comparison.

Are the Timbers going to make the playoffs? I assume it would be good for the league if they were perinial contestants in post season play?

FlyDoctor said:

I disagree here the champions league is not the same as play-offs. Particularly since the teams are all from different leagues. I have no problem with the play offs in MLS - but his is not a fair comparison.

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Well, technically they are regional playoffs to not only win the tournament but to qualify for the Club World Cup.

I consider them playoffs if you venture out of leagues and into regions. The best clubs from the countries in the confederation come together to see who is best, just like in MLS the best clubs during the regular season come together to see who is best.

Reno_eNVy said:

Well, technically they are regional playoffs to not only win the tournament but to qualify for the Club World Cup.

I consider them playoffs if you venture out of leagues and into regions. The best clubs from the countries in the confederation come together to see who is best, just like in MLS the best clubs during the regular season come together to see who is best.

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Sure, but it's a playoff between teams that don't necessarily play each other in the "regular season", so there's a very significant difference there. If it was just like in the mls, it would be between teams who had already played an entire season against each other.

That said, for the current mls structure with unbalanced schedules, some sort of playoff makes sense. In leagues where it's straight home and away between all teams, no need for a playoff. You already determined the best team over the course of the season. All a playoff does is artificially over value a handful of games at the end of the season over all others.

Ha I know I'm just seeing if I can put together a good enough argument. But it's been hard since this week since this job I've been on has me all sleep deprived.

But, as far as the schedule, I think playoffs should be in MLS either way. The typical American sports fan loves playoffs because we love the underdog stories. And in general the playoffs create a lot of amazing play and drama/controversy. Which is fun to watch

Grannyknot said:

Well, there it was...the lack of consistency.
Karim Benzema raised a boot to a players chest in a 50/50 challenge, no card, no foul.

I'm sure the United fan boys will be blowing up the internet with GIFs.

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Just to follow up on this...
http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/w...n-united-benzema-got-nothing-for-real-madrid/

Sorry to harp on this, but like I said before I'm awfully tired of English teams being on the wrong end of the inconsistent calls (or no calls) in european tournaments.

That definitely should have been a red.

As he got nothing you'd think UEFA could review it or something like that, but they won't.

I thought this should of been a red card in the man u game

For once a footballer had a reason to grab his face! (If there was even contact, it didn't seem clear from the video I watched).

hopstupid said:

I thought this should of been a red card in the man u game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KcqbMheJa4

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That probably should have been (Rafael's hand wasn't in a natural position) but that's irrelevant to the hypocrisy of the 2 situations. Nani's foul was about 10 times less dangerous than Benzema's

Reno_eNVy said:

Ha I know I'm just seeing if I can put together a good enough argument. But it's been hard since this week since this job I've been on has me all sleep deprived.

But, as far as the schedule, I think playoffs should be in MLS either way. The typical American sports fan loves playoffs because we love the underdog stories. And in general the playoffs create a lot of amazing play and drama/controversy. Which is fun to watch

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Absolutely agree on that. America is set on the idea of playoffs. And in things like college basketball or football, where you can't have balanced schedules, I totally agree with that approach.

But the purist in me says that a balanced schedule, best record at the end of the season wins, system is the best way to determine who was best over an entire season, vs just at the end.

Like the Patriots a few years back winning every game but the super bowl.

hoppyhoppyhippo said:

That probably should have been (Rafael's hand wasn't in a natural position) but that's irrelevant to the hypocrisy of the 2 situations. Nani's foul was about 10 times less dangerous than Benzema's

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The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

Grannyknot said:

The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

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And that's what's sad. It seems like more often than not refs give cards based on what happens after the foul rather than the foul itself.

Grannyknot said:

The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

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actually Nani was flopping on the ground as though he was the one that was just jump kicked

And then the ref has to put up with everyone whining about it, because they don't realize that only whining after the foul, not the card, changes anything. I used to love the beauty of soccer, then I quit watching in order to watch rugby, and now I can hardly stand putting up with this crap. You don't have people flopping around like idiots, and you get penalized for just talking to the ref (unless you're the captain), so there's a lot less of this crap that goes on. [/rant]

tennesseean_87 said:

And then the ref has to put up with everyone whining about it, because they don't realize that only whining after the foul, not the card, changes anything. I used to love the beauty of soccer, then I quit watching in order to watch rugby, and now I can hardly stand putting up with this crap. You don't have people flopping around like idiots, and you get penalized for just talking to the ref (unless you're the captain), so there's a lot less of this crap that goes on. [/rant]

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Here is a great example of that

it's really a great shot you see the whole man u team racing to get the call on the dive.

Can we get this clear? It's diving, not flopping. Flopping suggests a lack of action. Let's face it, when they dive they put ALL their acting abilities on show. That is NOT flopping. Flopping would be falling to the ground like a boneless squid and just laying there.

It's called diving, guys. Get them ducks in a row!

hopstupid said:

Here is a great example of that

it's really a great shot you see the whole man u team racing to get the call on the dive.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe-6MXtOtM4

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Qa7viZ4oQ

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The nice thing is that now the MLS Disciplinary Committee will start fining and suspending players for mobbing the ref or opposing players. Up to three players from each team can be a part of the discussion/argument but the fourth to confront someone will be subject to disciplinary actions.

FINALLY seeing what the Timbers are capable of.

Indeed, they looked playoff worthy against Houston. Nagbe and Alhassan were all over the place!

Reno_eNVy said:

Indeed, they looked playoff worthy against Houston. Nagbe and Alhassan were all over the place!

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They've looked playoff worthy during the last quarter of every match they've played this season. Tonight they finally played that same way the entire game. Nagbe being all over the place is actually not good for the Timbers. He has so much potential but doesn't trust a one or two touch. I don't know how many times I've yelled "Dammit Nagbe" at my TV or at the field. He needs confidence. But that wont come unless he actually takes risk. Ryan Johnson on the other hand is full of confidence. He had a hat trick during preseason and is willing to take the shot or make a crazy run. You can see his level of confidence when he has the ball. Nagbe doesn't want to make a single mistake, Johnson doesn't care if he makes a dozen mistakes. I'm not sure if this is because of the pressure that Coach Porter has put on Nagbe or something else. Porter has done an excellent job with the rest of the lineup, though. They seem VERY willing to play for him.

hopstupid said:

actually Nani was flopping on the ground as though he was the one that was just jump kicked

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Defense tactic. I'm sure Nanis leg hurt as well since he wasn't braced but for all he knew Alonso may have been in the wrong (collision happened in a fraction of a second hardly enough time for Nani to process everything that happened, what he did was simply what he was trained to do)

hoppyhoppyhippo said:

Defense tactic. I'm sure Nanis leg hurt as well since he wasn't braced but for all he knew Alonso may have been in the wrong (collision happened in a fraction of a second hardly enough time for Nani to process everything that happened, what he did was simply what he was trained to do)

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I was replying to this

Grannyknot said:

The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

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Is it ok for nani to flop around "like he had been shanked in a prison fight", but not Arbeloa?

He has a valid point though. If the defender for Gala, went down maybe bit hhis lip to draw blood, etc, then he would have drawn the red. Arbeloa like Nani went down like trained, heavy contact, go down. Both plays it shouldn't matter if the guy flops around or not. Should have been a red for Benzema if it was for Nani, and Benzema should serve a longer suspension than Nani would as playing near the head is infinitely more dangerous than the chest.

hopstupid said:

I was replying to this




Is it ok for nani to flop around "like he had been shanked in a prison fight", but not Arbeloa?

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There is a post match interview, which I can not find at the moment, where Nani was asked about going to ground, and if he was injured, to which he replied that when he hit the ground, he had the breath knocked out of him. I don't recall him flopping around, but, yes he did lay on the ground for a while.

Wow, this is the most brutal 100% clean tackle I have ever seen.
[ame="http://youtu.be/Co2MgRAnRMw"]http://youtu.be/Co2MgRAnRMw[/ame]

hoppyhoppyhippo said:

He has a valid point though. If the defender for Gala, went down maybe bit hhis lip to draw blood, etc, then he would have drawn the red. Arbeloa like Nani went down like trained, heavy contact, go down. Both plays it shouldn't matter if the guy flops around or not. Should have been a red for Benzema if it was for Nani, and Benzema should serve a longer suspension than Nani would as playing near the head is infinitely more dangerous than the chest.

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But he forgot to put in the part where Nani rolled on the ground like he was "shanked in a knife fight" after jump kicking someone in the chest

Grannyknot said:

The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

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Then goes on to question the manhood of Arbeloa. Is Nani a real man?

hopstupid said:

But he forgot to put in the part where Nani rolled on the ground like he was "shanked in a knife fight" after jump kicking someone in the chest

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Nani didn't roll around to be 100% honest. He fell on the ground holding his leg and ribs. Neither are unreasonable injuries given what happened. It's not like he reached for his face. I'm sure both of the players were in pain. But again, the point (not your side point) holds some truth, Benzema at least gets a yellow most likely if the defender he kicked in the face rolled on the ground clutching his face. If he was a Spaniard he probably would have bit his lip as well to draw blood to go for the red.

Changes that I would like to see in the MLS that might make it better.

1) promotion and relegation -- this would be great, NASL and USLPro stadiums aren't that bad, and it would get more regional attention.

2) I recognize that synchronizing MLS schedule with other top leagues creates conflicts with NFL and problems with weather. Still think it makes treansfer season better, and allows for better coordination of international and regional play within FIFA world.

3) The playoff system in the MLS is kooky. Set it up like other leagues do, where there is one or more tournaments that run concurrently with the league matches. (see FA Cup, CApital One Cup, Paint cup in british league)

4) Improve youth development -- drafting kids out of college is sloppy seconds. Any kids with talent are already pro by Age 21/22. In Europe, suitable kids are scouted and recruited at ages 8-12. Nothing that says MLS teams can't set up private boarding schools where academics are taught to prep a kid for college, but also where there is a heavy emphasis on learning soccer.

5) Turn the teams into clubs. Clubs means that in addition to them mens 1A team (the team we see on Saturdays/Sundays) have them have mens 2nd, 3rd teams, as well as womens, youth, and senior teams that play in non-paying leagues.

6) Team loyalty. Looks like a lot of players switch teams every other year...what's up with that?

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I just got the MLSlive app for IPad and laptop this year, and although i have been following international and european soccer for decades, have decided to start watching the MLS seriously. I semi-randomly picked the Whitecaps as a team to support. My thoughts here:

- The following players look pretty good: Daigo Kobayashi, YP Lee, Nigel Reo-Coker, Joe Cannon. Can we please get some forwards?!