Simple 120V RIMS build

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JayMac

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Joined
Jun 20, 2012
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Location
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Hey everyone,

As some people have noticed, I have been that annoying person on the forum asking a billion questions. However, there is a plus side to this!

So far I have a complete spreadsheet in excel, outlined each part individually, the link to the seller websites, quantities, prices, and notes. I have modified one of PJ's wiring diagrams (thanks PJ!) to suit my exact set up. I didn't include his name on the diagram in the event it is wrong/unsafe- I don't want him to get blamed for what could be my mistake. I have also shown a schematic of how the system is integrated (only thing missing are the liquid connections w/ camlocks and silicone). I figured if anyone is going to use my design and change something, it would be the use of QD/TC/CL's.

For now, I'm using this thread to get the last bit information I need to purchase all of my parts and make sure everything is absolutely safe. I want to thank everyone for all of their help so far, and I absolutely wouldn't be able to make what is soon to be a comprehensive thread about this build without your help. Once completed, this thread will be overhauled with every bit of knowledge required to build this set up, and will explain what each and every part is used for, and WHY they are necessary- I found this to be the most challenging part when attempting to understand the electrical.

ANYWAYS, Here are my schematic/diagrams, as well as my last few questions before I go ahead and buy everything. Once again, thanks for your help, and I hope this will be a valuable resource for many brewers to come.

Questions
1. I have included a GFCI outlet that the element and pump plug in to. My reasoning is that this will allow me to bring my setup anywhere, regardless if a GFCI receptacle is available. My question: am I right in doing this? It might be a dumb question (OF COURSE! ANOTHER SAFETY FEATURE IS ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA!), but I haven't necessarily seen many people include them. Is this sufficient safety to be able to plug the main power to the control box to a non GFCI receptacle (as shown in my diagram).

2. FUSES. Please refer to my diagram. I have only included one fuse (to protect the PID, it will actually be 0.75A), and I'm not necessarily sure that one in the whole system is sufficient. Should I have one for my pump? If so, at what amperage should it blow? (maybe 2-3A, as the Chugger pump only draws 1.3-1.4A?). I doubt anything else requires fusing as they are all rated for what the GFCI and wall receptacle are rated for.

3. As you can see, everything is rated at 15A. With a 1500W element and a pump, I'll be pulling about 13.9A or about 93% of the maximum load. I know that it's pushing it, but the fact is that increasing the component ratings up to 20A is expensive and the less than ideal availability of a 20A circuit makes it unattractive. What are your recommendations? 15A or 20A? (very interested to hear what you all have to say!)

4. As you can see in the diagrams, I plan on using strictly 14 AWG wire, C13,C14 and NEMA 5-15 connections as this all complies with my 15A max. However, I have all the parts sourced out for running this all on 20A (C19,C20, NEMA 5-20 connections with 12 AWG wire). Are these all the proper decisions for the ratings I'm considering?

5. The gang box which houses the elements electrical only uses the elements gasket to keep out water. Refer to my diagram for how I plan on protecting the electrical, and please give me your thoughts on whether its safe enough.

Thanks again guys for all your help. I know it's a long one, but every bit of your feedback is greatly appreciated! Cheers!:mug:

elements electrical housing.jpg


RIMS layout.jpg


Wiring Diagram for RIMS.jpg
 
Is anyone able to offer me some guidance on these last concerns? Once they've all been answered I'm immediately purchasing all of the parts :rockin:
 
Make it 20 amp. All these parts have a tolerance and are not exactly 1500 watt, 120v, etc. If the parts are 10% above tolerance or if you have a slight spike, you will trip the CFGI. I'm not sure what the gang box is made out of. Make sure you can complete a ground with it. It might be best to ground it to the kettle.

Fuses are cheap. Pumps are not. Fuses are never a bad idea.

For safety and legal reasons. Don't do this yourself. Always use a professional electrician. ;)
 
Whoops! Noticed it was a RIMS tube. Don't ground it to the kettle. That would be dumb.
 
Your idea for a GFCI internally is slightly flawed. You should not plug a GFCI into a circuit already protected with one. Also, if you plug into a circuit that is not grounded you get bupkis for protection. Better, if you want portability and protection, is one of those GFCI pigtails that have lights to verify polarity and grounding.
 
Make it 20 amp. All these parts have a tolerance and are not exactly 1500 watt, 120v, etc. If the parts are 10% above tolerance or if you have a slight spike, you will trip the CFGI. I'm not sure what the gang box is made out of. Make sure you can complete a ground with it. It might be best to ground it to the kettle.

Fuses are cheap. Pumps are not. Fuses are never a bad idea.

For safety and legal reasons. Don't do this yourself. Always use a professional electrician. ;)

Thanks fbold1 and Osedax!

I'll just go ahead and just make everything 20A like you said, 93% is definitely pushing it.

The gangbox is made entirely of steel. If I see that it doesn't make sufficient contact with the RIMS tube, I'll just connect the two.

I have experience wiring, and intend of doing this myself. However, I'm in University and have a half dozen graduate students in electrical engineering. I wouldn't think about plugging it in until I get at least a couple of them to ensure everything is hooked up properly. I may be stubborn, but I'm not stupid!

LBussy, why isn't it a good idea to use a GFCI receptacle for my pump/element if I'm on a GFCI circuit? My reasoning is that if I happen to go over to my buddies to brew, and he has a non-GFCI outlet, then at least my brew rig has one. I think I'm missing the reason for why it's not a good idea! I am not doubting your knowledge! Just a little confused, that's all.

Thanks for your supplies so far! Much appreciated
 
LBussy, why isn't it a good idea to use a GFCI receptacle for my pump/element if I'm on a GFCI circuit? My reasoning is that if I happen to go over to my buddies to brew, and he has a non-GFCI outlet, then at least my brew rig has one. I think I'm missing the reason for why it's not a good idea! I am not doubting your knowledge! Just a little confused, that's all.

Well, I'm damned if i can find a reference. As a disclaimer, it has been a LONG time since I did wiring. I was told by the master electrician I worked with that two GFI on the same circuit is a bad idea. Since I cannot reference that authoritatively maybe it will generate discussion that will help you.
 
A GFCI monitors the amount of current flowing from hot to neutral. If there is any imbalance, it trips the circuit. It is able to sense a mismatch as small as 4 or 5 milliamps, and it can react as quickly as one-thirtieth of a second.
No ground necessary.
 
fbold1 said:
A GFCI monitors the amount of current flowing from hot to neutral. If there is any imbalance, it trips the circuit. It is able to sense a mismatch as small as 4 or 5 milliamps, and it can react as quickly as one-thirtieth of a second.
No ground necessary.

Can you think of any reason why it would be bad to have my element and pump plugged into a GFCI on my control panel, and have my control panel hooked into a GFCI circuit (breaker) as Lbussy suggested?
 
Can you think of any reason why it would be bad to have my element and pump plugged into a GFCI on my control panel, and have my control panel hooked into a GFCI circuit (breaker) as Lbussy suggested?

Shouldn't be a problem. Many hair dryers are equipped with Ground fault protection on the plug, and you connect them to a ground fault protected circuit in the bathroom.
 
After looking at your original post, I would protect the wiring with a 15 amp fuse or breaker in your control box, a fuse protecting the PID is not necessary. A 15 amp gfi is not a current limiter, just a rating.
 
fbold1 said:
After looking at your original post, I would protect the wiring with a 15 amp fuse or breaker in your control box, a fuse protecting the PID is not necessary. A 15 amp gfi is not a current limiter, just a rating.

Why isn't the PID fuse necessary? I see them in most wiring diagrams. Even with a 15A breaker or fuse, the PID could get blown if it pulled just a couple amps (or that's what I've been led to believe).

The 15A fuse you recommended, would that go before the main power switch and H,N,G buses? That way it'll blow before any of my control boxes wires reach 15A?
 
Why isn't the PID fuse necessary? I see them in most wiring diagrams. Even with a 15A breaker or fuse, the PID could get blown if it pulled just a couple amps (or that's what I've been led to believe).

The 15A fuse you recommended, would that go before the main power switch and H,N,G buses? That way it'll blow before any of my control boxes wires reach 15A?

Fuse after the main power switch. I've never seen a display unit blow a fuse. They have an internal fuse and if that blows the unit is probably fried.
 
Fuse after the main power switch. I've never seen a display unit blow a fuse. They have an internal fuse and if that blows the unit is probably fried.

I think I'm going to go ahead and install a 0.25A fast acting fuse anyways for the PID, a 2A slow acting fuse for the pump, and a 20A fuse to protect the panel wiring (I've decided to buy everything rated to 20A and use 12AWG). If the PID has an internal fuse, why not blow a $1 fuse instead of blowing $40 on a new PID?

I think I'll install the GFCI outlet. The outlets outside my house are all GFCI and are connected to GFCI breakers, so like fbold1 said, there shouldn't be a problem.

That pretty much clears up all of my questions, so I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go ahead and order everything. I assume that using 12AWG and the appropriate C19/C20 connections are up to par, as nobody commented on that.The gangbox should be waterproof with the gasket/gangbox/locknut combo. And with that GFCI outlet... even if some water gets in and shorts it... it'll trip!

If you see anything wrong then please let me know, but I'll be buying everything within the next couple days, so please speak up ASAP! I'll update my wiring diagram to incorporate all of the fuses. Thanks for the help!:mug:
 
As far as the nema classifications go, they are to keep someone from plugging into the wrong amperage socket, since these are dedicated for your brew kettle it doesn't matter as long as the voltage rating is right. . I'd up that .25 to a 1A. BTW, I'm planning a future build, what is your hardware layout?
 
My current layout is a pretty simple 5gal AG system. 10gal cooler MLT with a cpvc manifold that i cut slits in. two 8.5 gal SS pots, the HLT has a SS weldles bulkhead barb, a sight glass, and a thermometer installed. BK just has a bulkhead w/ barb. Everything is done by gravity... but it's worse becuase i need to carry my gear up and down the steps!

My motivation behind this build was to give my back a rest before I screw it up while I'm young, and to to be able to keep my mash temperatures spot on. It should make my life a lot easier!
 
I apologize ahead of time for the stupid question, but what is the name for the items on the top left of the wiring diagram that splits line 1, neutral and ground into multiple outputs?
 
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