Saison How Rye I Am (Rye Saison) - 2011 - 1st Place Best of Show - HBT Comp

Would you keep the same percentages of grain when brewing a 5.5 gallon batch?

I used beersmith to scale it, then simplified/rounded. I came up with:
10 pounds pils
3 pounds rye
1 pound flaked rye

1pound d90 belgian candi sugar

2 oz styrian goldings at 60
1 oz saaz @ 10

For 6 gallons

Close?

Brewed this yesterday. Everything went exceptionally well (except I forgot to add the last .5 oz of hops at flame-out). Going to be the beer for our Jack & Jill baby shower on May 4th. So that leaves 5 weeks in the fermentor and 4 weeks in the bottle.

5 Gallon Batch
OG = 1058

9 lbs Belgian Pils
3 lbs Rye Malt
.6 lbs Candi Sugar (light and dark)

1.5 oz of U.S. Goldings at 60 min. (Styrian not available)
.5 oz U.S. Goldings at flame-out (forgot to add )

90 min Mash at 150* (1 lb of rice hulls) 5.5 gallons of H2O
Sparge water = 2.5 gallons at 170*

Unfortunately the local shop was out of 3711 so I opted for the WLP565. Pitched at about 75*. Bubbling away nice now.

BTW, with the WLP565, should I try to keep the temp between the high 70's - mid 80*?

I'm brewing this in the weekend, but I will be using WLP670 (American Farmhouse Blend). Should be good I reckon!

You could always run the numbers and see how much that would up your OG.

We add the sugar during the boil as we feel it gives it a slightly extra layer of flavor, or probably better to say complexity.

Aa760 said:

Just brewed this up this afternoon- fun brew day, aside from the couple of stuck sparges, despite the rice hulls- did about a half pound of 'em- should have done the whole pound, I guess. Mashed a little low- 149. Hit 1.072 for my post boil OG- boiled hard for 90 mins, plus satellite boiled an extra gallon or so of the runnings when my pot filled up, then combined the two at 30 mins to go as the volume was reduced enough to get it all together. My question is this: since my OG is so high, should I still at the candi sugar (I grabbed a pound of D90 in liquid form for ease of adding once the yeast have chewed on the big 3 malt sugars for a few days)? I pitched 2L of healthy, well oxygenated and nutrified 3711 this evening at 70 degrees where it will sit for duration of fermentation, aside from natural metabolic temperature increases. Curious what those that are following this thread, those that have brewed it, and hopefully the op have to say about adding the candi sugar still, or not. Thanks in advance for your input!

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Absolutely

Jennifer571 said:

Would you keep the same percentages of grain when brewing a 5.5 gallon batch?

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Just so you know, you will have a totally different beer! Albeit, most likely just as tasty.

Our recipe revolves around the 3711, that is the magic

jriggs said:

Brewed this yesterday. Everything went exceptionally well (except I forgot to add the last .5 oz of hops at flame-out). Going to be the beer for our Jack & Jill baby shower on May 4th. So that leaves 5 weeks in the fermentor and 4 weeks in the bottle.

5 Gallon Batch
OG = 1058

9 lbs Belgian Pils
3 lbs Rye Malt
.6 lbs Candi Sugar (light and dark)

1.5 oz of U.S. Goldings at 60 min. (Styrian not available)
.5 oz U.S. Goldings at flame-out (forgot to add )

90 min Mash at 150* (1 lb of rice hulls) 5.5 gallons of H2O
Sparge water = 2.5 gallons at 170*

Unfortunately the local shop was out of 3711 so I opted for the WLP565. Pitched at about 75*. Bubbling away nice now.

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Same as my last reply. Let us know how it turns out!

sockmerchant said:

I'm brewing this in the weekend, but I will be using WLP670 (American Farmhouse Blend). Should be good I reckon!

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Question about the OG and the sugar...

I'm getting 1.058 at 73% mash efficiency with the pils & rye alone. With the additional 2 lbs. of dark rock candi sugar added at flameout, the OG should be affected by several points. Shouldn't that boost the OG to more like 1.064? Or was your efficiency more like 67%, which would negate this dilemma?

Question on the hop selection...

If you wanted to use a more characterful American grown hop here, which one would you recommend? I'm thinking Sorachi Ace or Amarillo. And do you recommend pellets over leaf hops for this beer?

Yeah the initial recipe we posted was with a somewhat poor BHE - I would have to check my notes. We have it dialed in to consistently hit 1.070 now with the same grain bill. There is absolutely no noticeable hotness either.

Hmm, ours is so hop neutral. I love sorachi, so unique, I think that would make a fabulous experiment! Pellets are just easier for us. If you go leaf, account for the extra absorption.

bobbrews said:

Question about the OG and the sugar...

I'm getting 1.058 at 73% mash efficiency with the pils & rye alone. With the additional 2 lbs. of dark rock candi sugar added at flameout, the OG should be affected by several points. Shouldn't that boost the OG to more like 1.064? Or was your efficiency more like 67%, which would negate this dilemma?

Question on the hop selection...

If you wanted to use a more characterful American grown hop here, which one would you recommend? I'm thinking Sorachi Ace or Amarillo. And do you recommend pellets over leaf hops for this beer?

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Thanks.

Did you enjoy the taste/feel of the brew more with your initial 1.058/1.004 gravities or more at the present time, e.g. 1.070/1.004, I assume?

There was no perceptible difference in either. The 3711 along with Rye just gives it that perfect smooth, silky-ness...

bobbrews said:

Thanks.

Did you enjoy the taste/feel of the brew more with your initial 1.058/1.004 gravities or more at the present time, e.g. 1.070/1.004, I assume?

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usurpers26 said:

Same as my last reply. Let us know how it turns out!

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I do realise it will be different. I would be very dissapointed if it turned out the same I wanted to do a saison which used brett in mixed fermentation. I wanted to use rye for a more... rustic brew. While the malt is the same, I guess its closer to this brew by the mad fermentationalist

I'll let you know how it turns out tough.

I did my own version of rye saison based on OP recipe, its rather different but i kept rye at 24% and used 3711. I just bottled 11gal of this beer, OG 1.049, FG at 1.003 and gravity sample was excellent, it may get on my favorite recipes list

Stoked to brew this. So I just got my chest freezer and temperature control for my fermentation chamber. What temp should I set my chest freezer at in order to get fermentation temp of 71? Or I've read you can tape the probe to the side of the glass carboy if I wrap the probe with bubble wrap. If this is true do I wrap the entire probe w/ bubble wrap and then tape it to side of fermentor or do I tape probe to the side of the fermentor and then wrap bubble wrap on the side?
Cheers!

pulseyou said:

I've read you can tape the probe to the side of the glass carboy if I wrap the probe with bubble wrap. If this is true do I wrap the entire probe w/ bubble wrap and then tape it to side of fermentor or do I tape probe to the side of the fermentor and then wrap bubble wrap on the side?
Cheers!

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You tape directly to the fermenter then cover in bubble wrap or styrofoam, you're trying to insulate the probe from the ambient air.

Just tape probe to fermenter and you are golden, we use reflectix, a little patch just enough to cover the probe...

whoops, totally missed the post above that answered your question

pulseyou said:

Stoked to brew this. So I just got my chest freezer and temperature control for my fermentation chamber. What temp should I set my chest freezer at in order to get fermentation temp of 71? Or I've read you can tape the probe to the side of the glass carboy if I wrap the probe with bubble wrap. If this is true do I wrap the entire probe w/ bubble wrap and then tape it to side of fermentor or do I tape probe to the side of the fermentor and then wrap bubble wrap on the side?
Cheers!

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usurpers26 said:

The WY3711 is really what makes this beer. I would order it online or ask your LBHS to order it for you before substituting.

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True? I thought wlp565 = wy3724 and wlp566=wy3711?

Have this coming up the pipepline soon Using washed 3711 from previous batch & brett dregs from another bottle. Here's my grist:

Rye Saison - Saison
================================================================================
Batch Size: 4.750 gal
Boil Size: 5.500 gal
Boil Time: 60.000 min
Efficiency: 70%
OG: 1.054
FG: 1.012
ABV: 5.4%
Bitterness: 35.0 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 4 SRM (Morey)

Fermentables
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Briess - Pilsen Malt Grain 3.000 lb Yes No 80% 1 L
Briess - Rye Malt Grain 2.000 lb Yes No 80% 4 L
Briess DME - Pilsen Light Dry Extract 1.000 lb No Yes 95% 2 L
Pale Malt (2 Row) US Grain 2.000 lb Yes No 79% 2 L
Candi Sugar, Clear Sugar 16.000 oz No Yes 78% 1 L
Total grain: 9.000 lb


Not using dark candi to keep the color light. Also using Amarillo & Citra opposed to Goldings. Brewtarget doesnt have 3711 listed so I know FG will be a'lil lower. Will be dry-hopping a touch with Citra. Looking forward to the Rye Saison funk

I brewed up 10 gallons of this this weekend.

I made my starter based on the OG listed in the recipe (1.058) but ended up getting an OG of ~1.074. Oops. It was fermenting within 6 hours. This is my first time using 3711 and I am surprised by how the krausen doesn't blow up like other yeasts. It's there an about 1.5" thick, but not risking needing a blow off tube at all. Very nice!

bknifefight said:

I brewed up 10 gallons of this this weekend.

I made my starter based on the OG listed in the recipe (1.058) but ended up getting an OG of ~1.074. Oops. It was fermenting within 6 hours. This is my first time using 3711 and I am surprised by how the krausen doesn't blow up like other yeasts. It's there an about 1.5" thick, but not risking needing a blow off tube at all. Very nice!

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That is going to be a beast...

bd2xu said:

True? I thought wlp565 = wy3724 and wlp566=wy3711?

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Not true, I'm my experences and others that have posted in this thread and others threads on 3711, it is unique. It frements quickly reaching very close to the specific gravity of water. 3711 strain produces an ample amount of glycerol along with the fermentation so despite the extremely low FG still has a "silly mouthful."

MNDan said:

That is going to be a beast...

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Not any more than most people who followed the recipe. The OG listed is assuming 64% efficiency for some reason. Even the OP talks about having an OG > 1.070. It must just be a typo and I hadn't noticed when making the starter.

Yeah we have brewed this a ton of times now...and honestly I have no idea why our initial recipe had such a piss poor BHE...

We have it dialed in to hit a 70OG on the same grain bill (percentage wise that is).

bknifefight said:

Not any more than most people who followed the recipe. The OG listed is assuming 64% efficiency for some reason. Even the OP talks about having an OG > 1.070. It must just be a typo and I hadn't noticed when making the starter.

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It has been noted that the yeast is underpitched by about 20% as to stress the yeast a little for more ester production. What is the base pitching rate assumption? Is it 1.0 or 0.75 million per ml per Plato? I've seen both used. I believe the Mr. Malty calculator uses 0.75.

Yeast calcs were done via Mr Malty

brianm317 said:

It has been noted that the yeast is underpitched by about 20% as to stress the yeast a little for more ester production. What is the base pitching rate assumption? Is it 1.0 or 0.75 million per ml per Plato? I've seen both used. I believe the Mr. Malty calculator uses 0.75.

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usurpers26 said:

You could always run the numbers and see how much that would up your OG.

We add the sugar during the boil as we feel it gives it a slightly extra layer of flavor, or probably better to say complexity.

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Since i didnt see it in the recipe, how long are you boiling with the candi sugar

Came out with only 5 gallons instead of the 5.5 i was hoping for, so im up at 1.075 ...i did a 1L yeast starter which should put me at around 200B required out of the 240 Yeastcalc says i need....so i should be damn near the 20% lower yeast count, hopefully i hit the recipe head on....

Just threw the extra .5 oz of hops in half way through my chill, as i have no real use for such a small amount(LHBS sells in 2oz packages and i used 1.5 to get ~27 IBU)

Mine ended up fermenting quite hot, ended up getting to around 76 by the time fermentation was done. Not too worried considering many are done with this yeast at much higher temps than that, so hopefully its not too far off the OP's recipe, really looking forward to it.

I just tasted my gravity samples of this from bottling time. Wow. It's amazing. I think this will be my best beer so far, though I can't take all the credit obviously! Wound up going with WLP566, since I had some already, and I also added in some light spicing at the end--coriander, licorice root, chamomile, and star anise, but only about a tablespoon of that all together. Great recipe.

My variation of this recipe is in the bottle for over a month and i have to say its great, one problem was forgetting whirlock, this together with 24% rye made a very cloudy beer, my wife calls it mud beer but it taste great, i will be brewing it again, with irish moose/whirlock this time

I really love the little extra something Irish Moose adds to my brews too! Kinda hard to find though...

I made an extract version of this. I just bottled it last night and it tastes GREAT. I substituted honey and table sugar instead of the candi sugar.

Batch Size: 5.00 gal
OG: 1.058
FG: 1.005
ABV: 7.0%


Ingredients
1 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM)
6 lbs Rye Malt Syrup (6.0 SRM)
4.0 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM)
1 lbs Honey (1.0 SRM)
2.0 oz Styrian Goldings [3.8%] - Boil 60 min
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10 min) Misc 5
1 pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711)

I may be asking in the wrong place, forgive me... I'm new to the forums. But I just brewed something similar to this (Rye Saison) and it smells TERRIBLE! Like feet and garbage. I did really well with sanitation, so I'm kind of confused. Anyone have any ideas? Or could point me to a related forum?

Has anyone done a low alcohol version? say less than 4.5 %. If so, please let us know what you did and how it came out.

brianm317 said:

Has anyone done a low alcohol version? say less than 4.5 %. If so, please let us know what you did and how it came out.

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I did relatively low abv but it was still 5.5%, i was very happy with the result

Curious - does it matter what type of hops you use, since they are added at 60 minutes and primarily for bitterness? Recipe calls for Styian Golding. Any reason I can't substitute Columbus (Tomahawk)? I wouldn't do this for 30 min additions - but have a bunch and curious if it would be ok for this recipe.

This is a fantastic recipe. Here's my story:

I made a 5 gallon batch of this on 5-4-13
8lbs Belgian Pils
3lbs Rye
1 lb Table sugar
1oz Crystal 4.1%AA @90
1oz Crystal 4.1%AA @20
2x Packs 3711 Yeast

-OG 1.062 with 5.5 gallons going into the fermenter. Overshot my eff a little here.
-Started at 70deg (bubbles in the airlock within 14 hours) and brought it up to 80 over two days. Held 80 for a full week.
-Kegged it on 6-1-13 FG 0.999! I freaking love the French Saison yeast!
-Burst carb over three days and took a pull. This beer is so wonderful. The noes is deep citrus + dark fruit + spicy rye. The 3711 creates a perfect silky mouth-feel that tricks you into thinking the beer is not so dry. Caution - it will sneak up on you like nothing else!

The beer has continued to develop in the keg over the last few weeks with the orange citrus notes blending a little more with the dark fruit and the rye. So very pleased with how complex the final product is with such a simple recipe. I love saisons but hate breaking the bank on some of the rare spices and citrus peels many recipes require. Thank you for posting this recipe!!

Cooling this as i type, 6 gallons going into the fermenter with a sg of 1.065, quite tasty. Can't wait for the 3711 to do it's magic.
Thanks for the recipe!