I went "pro" - What it actually takes to do so

Just read the entire thread, great read! As others have said and many more will surely agree, "can we live vicariously through you?" 99% of us do not have the kahonas (read conicals) to take on the bureaucracy and up front costs just to possibly make a few bucks. I commend you and your partners for chasing the dream!

Its obvious you want to assist others attain their dreams. Perhaps you should talk to Jim Koch to see if he would be willing to mentor you on growing your business and hopefully avoid some pitfalls he encountered from knocking on bar doors hoping for a cold call sale to purchasing his last piece of equipment.

Wish my company had customers in MA so I could swing by.

Good thread. The info on the need for Sanke kegs was really good. Where did you guys source the kegs?

Cape - Sorry if this has been asked already, but how are you controlling your fermentation temperatures? The image on your brewery website shows fermenters set at different temp ranges.

PID controlled manifold and solenoids hooked up to a chilled glycol reservoir and pump. We jacketed the fermenters in simply soft drawn copper coils and then wrapped them in that silver foul lined bubble-wrap insulation.

Works like a charm. We can drop 45 gallons of wort down to 33 degrees.

Where did you obtain the PID controlled manifold, or is that a build that you guys did?

We built it

Cape Brewing said:

We built it

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By "we" you mean Frank right?

Holy crow!!!!


Yeager making two funnies in as many weeks. Surely the apocalypse is upon us.

In an attempt to actually keep this thread helpful and not have it turn into yet another thread completely ruined by a certain... nurse...

Another thread was talking about a surety bond and what it was all about so I thought I would give my quick two cents.

A surety bond, in general, is nothing more than an "insurance policy" that someone could take out against another party who owes them money. For brewers, surety bonds come into play when applying for your federal, TTB Brewer's Notice (your federal brewing license) and it will likely be needed for your state license as well.

It is an "insurance policy" for the Feds and State that you're going to pay your excise and other taxes. If you don't... the Feds/state will go after the insurance company and collect that way. They'll alllllways get their money.

The amount of the surety bond is dictated by your projected sales and what you actually pay.... is a fraction of what the amount of the bond is for. I don't remember what the amount of ours is for but it isn't much (I wanna say $5k) and it wasn't that expensive.

and there you go.

Thanks Cape. Good info and keep it coming!

cdubbaya said:

Cool thread, way to take a risk for a dream Cape!

We're also in the process of starting a brewpub here in Minneapolis, just filed the TTB license last month. We're thinking somewhere in the 7-10BBL range, brewing twice a week to start. Nothing special on the food side, probably grilled sandwiches, burgers, pizza, etc.
Do you mind if I shoot you some questions as we move along? We've got a location and will be sourcing equipment by the end of the month. I'd love to stay in contact with you and any other HBT members that have gone the nano (or bigger) route.

Again, great job! I liked your FB page so I can keep up with what you've got going on.

Cheers! (Go Pack)

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The bolded is a huge mistake. Make your food as good or better than your beer. As a matter of fact, I highly encourage you to incorporate your beer in at least 50% of your recipes. Search around for recipes made with beer -- this will set you apart.

The underlined and italicized portion of your quote is why your pub could fail in Minneapolis -- home of the proud Vikings (Jennings for 300yards total against the cheesepuffs this year...)

Great info cape! I really like these little factoids that you let us in on that are something a typical business doesn't have to go through.

Norselord said:

The bolded is a huge mistake. Make your food as good or better than your beer. As a matter of fact, I highly encourage you to incorporate your beer in at least 50% of your recipes. Search around for recipes made with beer -- this will set you apart.

The underlined and italicized portion of your quote is why your pub could fail in Minneapolis -- home of the proud Vikings (Jennings for 300yards total against the cheesepuffs this year...)

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Going to have to agree here. Brew pubs are restaurants first and a brewery second. Most people will judge mostly by how good the food is. The beer is an afterthought. Not to say there aren't people that will go specifically for the beer, they exist, but are the minority.

Just my $0.02 and experience. Carry on.

tyzippers said:

Going to have to agree here. Brew pubs are restaurants first and a brewery second. Most people will judge mostly by how good the food is. The beer is an afterthought. Not to say there aren't people that will go specifically for the beer, they exist, but are the minority.

Just my $0.02 and experience. Carry on.

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Maybe their business plan doesn't have funding for a full kitchen which could be quite costly.

Let's respectfully agree to disagree!

A brewpub is for great beer first, food is secondary. Fine dining at five star restaurants is for great food first, your beverage is just to wash it down.

I just visited a brewpub that opened about a year and a half ago. They had about 7 taps going, the place was full, the beer was OUTSTANDING! Fresh, crisp and delicious! They also served very simple foods like deep fried chicken fingers, french fries, hot dogs, you get the picture. We had some food, felt a little guilty about the high fat/salt content because we like to eat healthier, but it was just enough to satisfy, and make us ready for MORE BEER!

Let the establishments with a passion for cooking provide elaborate menus, but when you want great beer, head to the brewpub!

Norselord said:

The bolded is a huge mistake. Make your food as good or better than your beer. As a matter of fact, I highly encourage you to incorporate your beer in at least 50% of your recipes. Search around for recipes made with beer -- this will set you apart.

The underlined and italicized portion of your quote is why your pub could fail in Minneapolis -- home of the proud Vikings (Jennings for 300yards total against the cheesepuffs this year...)

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Brewfist said:

Let's respectfully agree to disagree!

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OK.

The poster probably meant "nothing special" in a different way.

Personally, I couldn't stand running a business where everything wasn't at least intended to be special. I have been to plenty of places were everything was excellent, but one of the following was subpar: atmosphere, price, food quality, service, wine menu, beer selection, location -- as a result of just one of these being off, the entire experience can be subpar.

I hate to leave a place where the drink is good, just to go get something good to eat...

tyzippers said:

Going to have to agree here. Brew pubs are restaurants first and a brewery second. Most people will judge mostly by how good the food is. The beer is an afterthought. Not to say there aren't people that will go specifically for the beer, they exist, but are the minority.

Just my $0.02 and experience. Carry on.

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Several of the Breweries around Denver, and surrounding areas just have deals with a couple of food trucks to stop by on Saturdays, and a few nights a week. The Brewery doesn't have to deal with all of the requirements of a resturant, and the patron's get good grub, that they can bring in, and the food trucks get some extra business that they otherwise wouldn't.

Yeah I was going to add that too, JeepDiver. There is a local brewery just getting off the ground here in Sacramento (Track 7) and they operate out of an industrial park between an auto repair shop and an iron fab shop. They have two side by side bays with picnic tables and when they're open there's usually a food truck parked right in front. Not only do you usually get decent food but a good variety because it's rarely the same truck. It also doesn't hurt that their beers are exceptional.

JeepDiver said:

Several of the Breweries around Denver, and surrounding areas just have deals with a couple of food trucks to stop by on Saturdays, and a few nights a week. The Brewery doesn't have to deal with all of the requirements of a resturant, and the patron's get good grub, that they can bring in, and the food trucks get some extra business that they otherwise wouldn't.

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This is a great idea and we have a brewery here that does this exact same thing. Both the Brewery and the Food Truck seemd to be raking in the cash last Friday

I think though, in the case of the first post of what we are talking about here, if you are doing a "Brew Pub" where you are actually making and serving food, don't let the food be an afterthought. The beer may attract people to your place originally, but the food is what will keep them coming back. Again, this is for those who actually plan on serving food. Once you get a kitchen going, weather you serve a $40 steak or an $8 burger, you are subject to the same rules and regulations. Might as well take some time and thought and do it right.

Don't forget to have someone with a little kitchen/cooking experience help you out as well. No matter how good your beer is, if the food is bad and service slow, that will reflect on your establishment more negatively than any good reviews of your beer will help it.

All good points. I was referring to specifically a brewpub. If you're a brewery brewing beer as your main source of income and distributing it as such, then I agree that the beer is the first and foremost concern.

A brewpub, where the beer is sold on premises only, I will still, respectfully disagree. To each our own! I wish good luck to all those living the dream!

Cape's gonna love the direction this thread took.

Very nice write up! I went to tell my wife about it as we have played around with the idea of going pro as well...before I could start reading the thread she explained what we needed to do. Guess that's what I get for marrying a compliance analyst from the wine and food industry. Still,...very nice write up and really good for forecasting our timeline and financial requirements...just have to finish up the business plan and start securing financing...

I can't seem to find your website, would mind posting it?

In my sig

Cape Brewing said:

And the market for used sankes is extremely tight so I wouldn't simply assume, "meh, I'll grab a pile used for cheap".

We went with 65 new 1/6th sankes... and the ones we bought have the entire spear simply unscrew so we can get in and "manually" clean and sanitize them without either having to have automated keg cleaning equipment or it being a massive PITA

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would you mind sharing a link for the sankes with the screw type spear?

Pacific Brewery Systems

... not sure i would go with these kegs again. At first, I think we were psyched because we figured we would unscrew the spears and give the kegs a really good cleaning but up until this point, we have unscrewed a grand total of zero kegs so I'm not sure it is really needed. Also... since the spears unscrew, we've had issues with one of our accounts spinning off the spears when they go to un-tap the keg.... and then not being able to get the tap off the spear (that's a bad situation).

We've been able to lock them down really tight so I don't think we'll have the issue again but like I was saying, I'm not sure I would go the "removable spear" route again.

Cape Brewing said:

Absolutely! Stop in whenever. you might wanna PM me and make sure we are going tobe there but yeah, stop in!

I can give you the VIP tour... "turn your head to your right... see those pots two feet in front of you? That's the rig. turn your head to the left. see those tanks three feet in front of you? Those are the fermenters. This concludes our tour. That'll be $9."

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Lol

My friends own and run Twenty2 Vodka.. I kept bugging them for a tour and was told "man, you're gonna be disappointed.. There's nothing to see. Basically a big empty room with some big stainless garbage cans."

Dammed if he wasn't right.. Lol

AZ_IPA said:

Cape's gonna love the direction this thread took.

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No sheet!

I have bad news for you folks. Big Iron Brewery only exists in the mind of a severely autistic boy living in a state run institution just outside of Boston.

paulthenurse said:

No sheet!

I have bad news for you folks. Big Iron Brewery only exists in the mind of a severely autistic boy living in a state run institution just outside of Boston.

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Good thing he runs Bog Iron Brewing not Big Iron.

Uggg. Don't encourage the nurse. It'll only make it worse.

Cape Brewing said:

Pacific Brewery Systems

... not sure i would go with these kegs again. At first, I think we were psyched because we figured we would unscrew the spears and give the kegs a really good cleaning but up until this point, we have unscrewed a grand total of zero kegs so I'm not sure it is really needed. Also... since the spears unscrew, we've had issues with one of our accounts spinning off the spears when they go to un-tap the keg.... and then not being able to get the tap off the spear (that's a bad situation).

We've been able to lock them down really tight so I don't think we'll have the issue again but like I was saying, I'm not sure I would go the "removable spear" route again.

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Would they work for a home brewer's bar?

Having worked with them, would you say they're easier to clean than a regular sanke with the split ring?

I'm considering dumping my cornies for sankes.

Congrats on the brewery, btw. Sounds awesome.

Clonefan94 said:

This is a great idea and we have a brewery here that does this exact same thing. Both the Brewery and the Food Truck seemd to be raking in the cash last Friday

I think though, in the case of the first post of what we are talking about here, if you are doing a "Brew Pub" where you are actually making and serving food, don't let the food be an afterthought. The beer may attract people to your place originally, but the food is what will keep them coming back. Again, this is for those who actually plan on serving food. Once you get a kitchen going, weather you serve a $40 steak or an $8 burger, you are subject to the same rules and regulations. Might as well take some time and thought and do it right.

Don't forget to have someone with a little kitchen/cooking experience help you out as well. No matter how good your beer is, if the food is bad and service slow, that will reflect on your establishment more negatively than any good reviews of your beer will help it.

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This is very, very true. I have been to a lot of brewpubs with great beer and ok food, they are easy to get into. A place with great beer and incredible food is always packed. Plus people will stay and drink beer while eating their food!

Hugh_Jass said:

Would they work for a home brewer's bar?

Having worked with them, would you say they're easier to clean than a regular sanke with the split ring?

I'm considering dumping my cornies for sankes.

Congrats on the brewery, btw. Sounds awesome.

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I still use cornies at my house and I will never switch.

Sankes are going run you a solid $100 a pop, not counting the keg connectors to switch over. Cornies are still going to be dramatically easier to clean no matter what and I don't see a single benefit of kegging in sankes over cornies. I know cornies are getting more difficult to cone by but they aren't $100 a whack yet.

Cape Brewing said:

I still use cornies at my house and I will never switch.

Sankes are going run you a solid $100 a pop, not counting the keg connectors to switch over. Cornies are still going to be dramatically easier to clean no matter what and I don't see a single benefit of kegging in sankes over cornies. I know cornies are getting more difficult to cone by but they aren't $100 a whack yet.

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How do you guys clean your brewery sankes?

Hugh_Jass said:

How do you guys clean your sankes?

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We (meaning "Frank") built a keg washing machine. We cycle hot water, pbw, fresh water, sanitizer, etc, through them with a pumping station.

Cornies are about 8.7 million times easier.

Bars don't exactly have ball lock connectors though.

When I swapped my home built kegerator for a perlick draft system, the installer clamped the sanke couplers to the lines. I gotta go install adapters and cut off 12 oetiker clamps on my knees in a cooler. Darn sankes! the adapters weren't exactly cheap either. PITA! I can probably stuff at least 9 kegs inside though. It's been a pita start to finish.

On your keg cleaner, how long do you run the pbw cycle and what temp out of curiosity?

TD

Cape Brewing said:

We (meaning "Frank") built a keg washing machine. We cycle hot water, pbw, fresh water, sanitizer, etc, through them with a pumping station.

Cornies are about 8.7 million times easier.

Bars don't exactly have ball lock connectors though.

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Do you have any pictures of the keg cleaner you could post?

Cape Brewing said:

I still use cornies at my house and I will never switch.

Sankes are going run you a solid $100 a pop, not counting the keg connectors to switch over. Cornies are still going to be dramatically easier to clean no matter what and I don't see a single benefit of kegging in sankes over cornies. I know cornies are getting more difficult to cone by but they aren't $100 a whack yet.

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Have you considered using the plastic sanke kegs? I received a quote that was only about 70 bucks a keg(1/6)

Yeah but they are bigger than corny kegs...

Cape Brewing said:

We (meaning "Frank") built a keg washing machine. We cycle hot water, pbw, fresh water, sanitizer, etc, through them with a pumping station.

Cornies are about 8.7 million times easier.

Bars don't exactly have ball lock connectors though.

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Is there a reason you couldn't just include a sanke adapter with corny kegs?