Who said you had to use hot water to sparge with? I use cold water and not too much of it and the hot grains heat the water to improve the solubility of the sugar. I find it easier as I don't have to heat the water nor do I have to worry about splashing the hot water on myself. You should try it once and see how it affects your efficiency. I also don't do a mashout because as soon as the bag of grain is out of the pot the burner is on to heat to boil. That accomplishes the mashout. One pot, one bowl to set the grains in while they drain and I'm mashing.
All Grain Vs BIAB - Pro's & Con's (5 Gal Batches)
- Thread starter dstranger99
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Who said you had to use hot water to sparge with? I use cold water and not too much of it and the hot grains heat the water to improve the solubility of the sugar. I find it easier as I don't have to heat the water nor do I have to worry about splashing the hot water on myself. You should try it once and see how it affects your efficiency. I also don't do a mashout because as soon as the bag of grain is out of the pot the burner is on to heat to boil. That accomplishes the mashout. One pot, one bowl to set the grains in while they drain and I'm mashing.
Not to nit pick, but find it interesting...A 10 lb grain bill will leave behind 5-6 lbs of sugars......a 35 lb grain bill, well drained after leaving the kettle should weigh about, say 35 lb, maybe less...I should collect some data
alestateyall
Well-Known Member
wilserbrewer said:
Good point about the sugars. I was just trying to quantify how heavy, or not heavy depending on your perspective, a wet bag if grain is.
I have done 35 lb BIAB grain bills. I find the key is to slowly raise the bag allowing it to drain as it exits the kettle...no way you're getting the bag out in one quick lift because in the beginning it is like a 15 gallon bag of wort, haha.
I will just echo some others who find BIAB great for a smaller 2.5 or 3 gallon batch. I don't need to break out all the equipment, I can chill the kettle in a deep sink and wrap up the brew day, then it's transfer and pitch. I am not dragging hoses, cleaning a plate chiller, (in fl I find immersion chillers painfully slow since my tap is about 78 degrees) etc. one kettle, can do it in the air conditioned comfort of my kitchen.
If I put more effort into a 5 gallon BIAB setup with a pulley system, I think you would still save time, but for me at least, once I'm cleaning a chiller and breaking out the propane, it's just easier to me to go with the MLT and a march pump.
Not bashing it, I think for smaller AG batches biab is the way to go and let's me brew more, saves time and for me anyway, lots of cleaning. And I don't know anyone that just digs cleaning!
If I put more effort into a 5 gallon BIAB setup with a pulley system, I think you would still save time, but for me at least, once I'm cleaning a chiller and breaking out the propane, it's just easier to me to go with the MLT and a march pump.
Not bashing it, I think for smaller AG batches biab is the way to go and let's me brew more, saves time and for me anyway, lots of cleaning. And I don't know anyone that just digs cleaning!
I BIAB smaller (test) batches and would never consider doing a five gallon batch without creating some sort of winch system. (I am not getting any younger.) I don't enjoy the hot sticky mess with BIAB.
I have the proper equipment for HLT, mash tun, boil kettle so I find it just as easy but it takes longer, which sometimes is making the fun last longer.
I don't find that I have significantly different results either way.
I have the proper equipment for HLT, mash tun, boil kettle so I find it just as easy but it takes longer, which sometimes is making the fun last longer.
I don't find that I have significantly different results either way.
itsme_timd
Well-Known Member
Glad I saw this thread today as this is a topic I was just research mash tun setups after a nightmarish BIAB brew day yesterday. Long story short, I had a large plastic collander that just fit across the top of my pot. After mashing the grains I put the bag in the collander to drain. The hot grain made the collander flex and it felling into my pot and I lost a good amount of wort. In hindsight I should have seen this as a possibility but it is what it is. I intend to purchase a cooler to mash in so as not to have to mess with that again.
woknblues
Well-Known Member
I have brewed on a friend's all grain traditional system and I waited until BIAB to actually do it on my own. I have limited time and space to brew, with a baby and a house needing care/repair. As such, I find most of my mods are related to ease of use, and speed.
I am heating my strike on the stove as I get my equipment together, then I take my strike over to the propane SP1 "jet" and within a few minutes, I am at strike, dump grains into bag and mash. Recheck temps every 15 minutes or so, then pull grains and place into bucket with colander. Fire up burner, add run off from bag and boil for 60-90 minutes, then, ideally, no chill into an HDPE and pitch the next day. My whole brew day is around 3.5 hours. Last brew day, I brewed a double batch of two different beers in about 6.5 hours, and the extra hour was finishing my boil on the stove after running out of propane.
I have found the following "contrary" points in my use of BIAB/no chill, namely; high efficiency (80+%), no discernable DMS or astringency and crystal clear beers.
I am heating my strike on the stove as I get my equipment together, then I take my strike over to the propane SP1 "jet" and within a few minutes, I am at strike, dump grains into bag and mash. Recheck temps every 15 minutes or so, then pull grains and place into bucket with colander. Fire up burner, add run off from bag and boil for 60-90 minutes, then, ideally, no chill into an HDPE and pitch the next day. My whole brew day is around 3.5 hours. Last brew day, I brewed a double batch of two different beers in about 6.5 hours, and the extra hour was finishing my boil on the stove after running out of propane.
I have found the following "contrary" points in my use of BIAB/no chill, namely; high efficiency (80+%), no discernable DMS or astringency and crystal clear beers.
OP
OP
dstranger99
Well-Known Member
You need a heavy metal collander that fits like a glove to be successful using that method, I personally just set the bag over another pot, squeeze the **** out of it, and add the wort back in.........
PackerfaninSanDiego
Member
I have a 10 gal mash tun that Santa gave me,,,got it all set up to go AG and have yet to use it...After asking a lot of questions about sparging, quite a few members said I should try the BIAB method. I bought a custom bag from wilserbrewer, brewed up a batch of cream ale using a pulley attached to my garage door header. I watched a bunch of youtube videos on BIAB and I did not want to lift the bag with my bare hands.(accident waiting to happen) Today I'm going to BIAB for the 2nd time. This Saturday my LHBS is putting on a AG Demo and maybe after going to this demo, I may or may not go to AG using my mash tun. As a couple guys have said,it all depends what works for you. I will eventually try the AG with mash tun but I doubt I will ever go back to extracts.
rmaloney86
Well-Known Member
I have done both methods, I'm set up to do both methods, both can produce the same great beer. In the end I prefer the BIAB method. Mostly for consistency, the fewer moving parts the less that can go wrong. For me equipment cost wasn't the issue.
Brewing is beautiful in that it is as easy or complicated as we want to make it. To each his own.
Its kinda funny though that we spend so much time talking about the brewing process but the real money is in fermentation process.
Brewing is beautiful in that it is as easy or complicated as we want to make it. To each his own.
Its kinda funny though that we spend so much time talking about the brewing process but the real money is in fermentation process.
itsme_timd
Well-Known Member
Yeah, a thinking man wouldn't have sat a huge bag of 155F grain in a flimsy plastic collander!
gizmodog51
Well-Known Member
joined the BIAB team earlier in the year.
was collecting my equipment when i signed on with the forum.
learned a lot here.....
my set-up... a metal cabinet on rollers. my burner sets on top of the cabinet. mounted one 2"x4"x 8' centered on each side of the cabinet. this was to be used in conjuction with a metal pipe as a windlass , much like an old well has to bring up the bucket. further trails determined i needed taller 2x4 to achieve the lift height required to remove bagged grains. taller would not allow me to move out from under the cabanna if needed....so....punted and observered a hook hanging from my cabanna frame. this seemed to be a perfect solution , about 12' off the ground if only it could support the weight???after testing with 50+ lbs the frame proved reliable so purchased a pulley with a ring on one end to slide over the hook and used paracord style rope to remove bagged grains by hand......this arrangment became an unwelcomed task. eventually purchased a hand crank winch from tractor supply. $19.00. http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/hand-winch-600-lb-pulling-capacity?cm_vc=-10005.
mounted the winch on one of the 2x4 at chest height, used the same rope already was using with the pulley hanging from the cabanna hook.
this set-up has worked well. the cabinet has two doors that swing out to allow for storage in the cabinet. i usually put two 20lb barbells on the floor to stablize the cabinet....maybe over kill with the burner & pot full of wort already adding weight but i guess it helps anyways.
now i can lift the grain bag just above the water level, let it drain then remove it enough to slide a oven rack under the bag which rests on the pot.
lower the bag to lightly rest on the rack as the water is squeezed out.
this works pretty good since i don't have to remove the bag with wort dripping from it to another container to squeeze & drain it. this method has proved to be very successful having no standing wort in the bucket which the grain is stored in after rendering the grain bag. in the earlier trials i had purchased a com-a-long for the lifting task after further analysis the idea didn't pan out returned the com-a-long for the winch which has given me total security & control over the lifting task...
GD51
was collecting my equipment when i signed on with the forum.
learned a lot here.....
my set-up... a metal cabinet on rollers. my burner sets on top of the cabinet. mounted one 2"x4"x 8' centered on each side of the cabinet. this was to be used in conjuction with a metal pipe as a windlass , much like an old well has to bring up the bucket. further trails determined i needed taller 2x4 to achieve the lift height required to remove bagged grains. taller would not allow me to move out from under the cabanna if needed....so....punted and observered a hook hanging from my cabanna frame. this seemed to be a perfect solution , about 12' off the ground if only it could support the weight???after testing with 50+ lbs the frame proved reliable so purchased a pulley with a ring on one end to slide over the hook and used paracord style rope to remove bagged grains by hand......this arrangment became an unwelcomed task. eventually purchased a hand crank winch from tractor supply. $19.00. http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/hand-winch-600-lb-pulling-capacity?cm_vc=-10005.
mounted the winch on one of the 2x4 at chest height, used the same rope already was using with the pulley hanging from the cabanna hook.
this set-up has worked well. the cabinet has two doors that swing out to allow for storage in the cabinet. i usually put two 20lb barbells on the floor to stablize the cabinet....maybe over kill with the burner & pot full of wort already adding weight but i guess it helps anyways.
now i can lift the grain bag just above the water level, let it drain then remove it enough to slide a oven rack under the bag which rests on the pot.
lower the bag to lightly rest on the rack as the water is squeezed out.
this works pretty good since i don't have to remove the bag with wort dripping from it to another container to squeeze & drain it. this method has proved to be very successful having no standing wort in the bucket which the grain is stored in after rendering the grain bag. in the earlier trials i had purchased a com-a-long for the lifting task after further analysis the idea didn't pan out returned the com-a-long for the winch which has given me total security & control over the lifting task...
GD51
MTate37
Well-Known Member
I've done full volume BIAB for my last two batches and love the process. Maybe it is because I'm new but it still takes me quite a while. As far as the weight issue goes I gradually pull the bag so that a lot drains as I pull it, then put a little muscle into it so I can get it just high enough to slide a cooling rack under it.
For my last brew I sparged for the first time and it was a bit of a PITA since I had about 20 lbs of grain and I dunk sparged in a 5 gallon bucket. Do you guys see any noticeable difference from a sparge in full volume BIAB?
I've also mashed out on both of my BIAB brews, but after reading some of the comments here it seems like I could do without this step as well. What do y'all think?
For my last brew I sparged for the first time and it was a bit of a PITA since I had about 20 lbs of grain and I dunk sparged in a 5 gallon bucket. Do you guys see any noticeable difference from a sparge in full volume BIAB?
I've also mashed out on both of my BIAB brews, but after reading some of the comments here it seems like I could do without this step as well. What do y'all think?
MTate37 said:
Personally, after trying to sparge and doing a mashout a couple times, I've stopped doing either. Now that Im getting in a routine, Im getting around 75% eff. What I like the most about BIAB is that I don't really need to sparge or mashout. I'm not worried about continued enzymatic activity because Im heating toward a boil right after pulling out the grains. I also stir the mash really well every time I check temps and right before I pull the grains to make sure I get a good amount of the sugar. The only time I would sparge is if I needed more for my preboil volume.
BPal75
Well-Known Member
I don't sparge my full boil BIAB. Instead I leave the grains in after mashing and on my way to the boil, pulling them out at 168F. Effectively a mash out. I figure the higher temps make the sugars more soluble and might help dissolve more sugars trapped in the grain.
Because it a full boil BIAB the mash is so thin, I don't think you need separate sparge water to accomplish this task like you do in a traditional mash which is much thicker.
I don't know if any of this is technically correct, but it made intuitive sense to me (sugar dissolves easier in hotter water) and I've been able to consistently get 85 percent efficiency using this method for the last 5 batches.
Because it a full boil BIAB the mash is so thin, I don't think you need separate sparge water to accomplish this task like you do in a traditional mash which is much thicker.
I don't know if any of this is technically correct, but it made intuitive sense to me (sugar dissolves easier in hotter water) and I've been able to consistently get 85 percent efficiency using this method for the last 5 batches.
boscobeans
Well-Known Member
I use a 50 quart mash tun (cooler) with a stainless grill that is formed to hug the bottom with about 1/4 inch below it. One side is bent to fit just over the drain. I line the entire thing with a fitted voile panel that is clipped in place.
Basically it's a combination system that has worked for me. It seems to drain the most from my grain and gives me a good efficiency %. Since I let the mash drain out before I remove the liner it is a lot easier to handle than just lifting a bag of "liquid mash".
bosco
Basically it's a combination system that has worked for me. It seems to drain the most from my grain and gives me a good efficiency %. Since I let the mash drain out before I remove the liner it is a lot easier to handle than just lifting a bag of "liquid mash".
bosco
wobdee
Junior Member
BPal75 said:
Same here, no sparge and it doesn't hurt anything to leave the grains in there and remove at mashout temp since you have to bring it up to boil anyways.
My efficiencies run 75-85% depending on the size of the brew, the larger the less efficient.
tahoeguy
Member
For me, I changed and evolved as my equipment changed and evolved. I started AG with the traditional cooler mash tun, one burner and a hodge podge structure. Went to BIAB to make things simple and enjoyed brewing about 15 batches that way.
Built a three tier structure from a garage storage rack, added a second burner and find going back to my mash tun AG set up is now a more enjoyable and even easier way to brew.
For me, both at 73% efficiency, both about 4.5 hours from start to finished cleaning, both great beers.
Built a three tier structure from a garage storage rack, added a second burner and find going back to my mash tun AG set up is now a more enjoyable and even easier way to brew.
For me, both at 73% efficiency, both about 4.5 hours from start to finished cleaning, both great beers.
gizmodog51
Well-Known Member
i'm on the no sparge team also.......
i drain the bag and squeeze withthe bag resting upon an oven rack perched over the pot.
i do mash out however i mean it's just for 10-15 minutes i can't see the need to by pass it.
by the time i finish rendering the grains they are dry though damp and the chickens love them when set a side to cool.
brew on:rockin:.... love the BIAB thanx to the aussies!
GD5
i drain the bag and squeeze withthe bag resting upon an oven rack perched over the pot.
i do mash out however i mean it's just for 10-15 minutes i can't see the need to by pass it.
by the time i finish rendering the grains they are dry though damp and the chickens love them when set a side to cool.
brew on:rockin:.... love the BIAB thanx to the aussies!
GD5
gizmodog51
Well-Known Member
very inovative! do you get any by-pass on the grain husks & other debris with the voile on the grill frame when draing? how long does it take to drain?
GD51
gizmodog51
Well-Known Member
Do any of you who do full water volume mashes ever check your pH? I'm curious to know what it is.
Yes, at mash in my pH was very close to 6.0. I don't know what it would have been with a lower water/mash ratio though. I adjust with about a teaspoon of acid blend that my LHBS has in stock and it brings it to 5.2-5.3.
wedge421
Well-Known Member
I know for me I really dig BIAB. Ive done 99% of my brewing all grain 5/10 gallons batches and have recently switched to 2.5 gallon BIAB batches de to not being able to drink all of the beer I make. For me its a bit of a time saver and the cleanup is much easier with BIAB
BPal75
Well-Known Member
I don't generally check pH, however I do use brewing water calculators to help determine salt additions necessary to hit target pH. You can tell the calculator you are doing full volume mashes to take the thin mash factors into account.
I've had success with doing my additions this way and since I've hit high efficiencies, I assumed my pH was in a reasonable range.
I've had success with doing my additions this way and since I've hit high efficiencies, I assumed my pH was in a reasonable range.
Glad i found this thread.
Used to brew 10 gallons batches AG with HLT, mash tun and boil kettle. My equipment was damaged in a fire and i need to buy myself a new system...i am looking at BIAB. Time is important and if i can save few hours per brew ay it would be awesome. I am looking at electric BIAB and thinking of doing 15 gallons batches.
What efficiency can i expect?
Is there a risk of extracting tannins by raising temperature to 168 ?
Used to brew 10 gallons batches AG with HLT, mash tun and boil kettle. My equipment was damaged in a fire and i need to buy myself a new system...i am looking at BIAB. Time is important and if i can save few hours per brew ay it would be awesome. I am looking at electric BIAB and thinking of doing 15 gallons batches.
What efficiency can i expect?
Is there a risk of extracting tannins by raising temperature to 168 ?
BPal75
Well-Known Member
I've never noticed tannin extraction side effects in my beers leaving the grains in until 168. I figured if mash outs are generally done by raising the grain bed to 168 and holding for 10 minutes, my process would lower the risk of extraction since I'm leaving the grains in for less time.
Idk, never been a problem I've seen.
Idk, never been a problem I've seen.
Tannin extraction is more due to pH than temps. That's why I asked about pH above.
Denny said:
I need to start doing ph tests on my BIAB mash. How do you adjust once you test the mash, and is there a point when it's too late to adjust? Sorry for the side track. Can someone give me a link?
I wait 5-10 min., then test for pH. I use lactic acid to lower it and pickling lime to raise it. Take a look at the water knowledge section of Bru'nwater.
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/
Denny said:
Thanks Denny.
Sorry everyone for the of topic question. But the point was raised about what the difference is for ph concerns with a full volume mash BIAB style compared to a traditional mash ratio. Has anyone actually answered that pro vs con question concerning BIAB?
scoundrel
Well-Known Member
For me, the only real con for BIAB really does come down to lifting the grain. Like others mentioned you can make a pulley but I found it easier to loop the end of the bag and use a ziptie to keep it in place. Then I put my ladder in an A frame over the pot and attach a couple bungie cords to assist me in lifting it. Once it's out, I put it in the tray below over my kettle to drain. Additionally, I purposely leave out a gallon or two of the water needed to boil, so I can pour it over the grain, while it's draining. I usually get 80% efficiency after a 45 minute mash. Works well and the most grain I did was 40 pounds for a 10 gallon batch.
MTate37
Well-Known Member
Great idea with the tray! Making one of those ASAP.
Gozer posted a while ago that he thinks anything over a 1060 would be tough in biab. My biggest to date was 1082. It's not that hard and biab is ridiculously efficient. I am just starting to dial back my grain bills so I can actually make something in the 1050s. I made a 1059 and was shooting for 1052. Followed the recipe exactly. I love biab and do not have plans to make a mash tun any time soon. I have not yet tried a barley wine but I don't quite have a pot big enough for that as my plan to do it involves just doing a huge mash and making a partygyle with the sparges. That means I need more than 6 gals of mash water and grain. Bigger pot. I am currently drinking a double batch sparged imperial pils at 8.4%. All biab. It was heavy but not hard. Thick rubber kitchen gloves are the key. Keeps you from frying your hands
gizmodog51
Well-Known Member
yes!!! now that i'm doing A.G. BIAB i do try to hit the correct mash Ph 5.3-5.5
though i was never concerned about it with extract /grain seepage brewing.
i'm not super anal retentative but the water report from wards lab and reading the topic section on water chemistry educated me to know what to look for and how to adjust my water correctly. gives me a target to shoot and i feel helps with the overall quality of my end product.
ain't this a great forum?
GD51
Thank you all for your feedback. I am surprised to see such a great efficiency with BIAB.
Anyone heard of high gravity? Look at how they drain the grain? They just lift the basket and put it onthe side. They have a video on youtube
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/BIAB-Electric-Brewing-System-269p3987.htm
You could brew a 10 gallons bath with a 62 qts pot.
Anyone heard of high gravity? Look at how they drain the grain? They just lift the basket and put it onthe side. They have a video on youtube
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/BIAB-Electric-Brewing-System-269p3987.htm
You could brew a 10 gallons bath with a 62 qts pot.
MMJfan
Well-Known Member
While most of my recipes I make generally call for my OG to come in at or around the 1.060 range, I have a couple that check in above 1.070 and have had no problem hitting the number when I brew those doing BIAB. I have plans on trying to make a higher gravity IPA soon and I'm not sweating whether or not I will be able to hit the higher OG using BIAB...
scoundrel
Well-Known Member
terrenum said:
That is a creative technique. I use the 82 quart pot and have tried letting the basket hang in a similar fashion. The problem for me was the wait. With such small holes it seemed to take a long time to drain. That being said I could see you siding the technique to get not if the water it then transfer it to a tray to squeeze the excess.
Similar threads
