More on Faux Craft Beer

AZ_IPA said:

So much so that they had to change the definition of craft beer.

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So, they modified the definition of a made-up term to better fit what the current climate of that field was. Definitions change over time, nothing is static.

Craft beer has evolved in the past 2 decades, and the association that represents that field has to adapt or get the hell out of the way. They chose the smart path.

forstmeister said:

So, they modified the definition of a made-up term to better fit what the current climate of that field was. Definitions change over time, nothing is static.

Craft beer has evolved in the past 2 decades, and the association that represents that field has to adapt or get the hell out of the way. They chose the smart path.

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And as soon as Boston Brewing sells more beer, they'll change the definition again.

So yeah, it's a silly definition.

The purpose of the Brewer's Association is "To promote and protect small and independent American brewers, their craft beers and the community of brewing enthusiasts." So it is the trade group of anyone but BMC.

According to the Brewer's Association, the share of US beer sales attributed to the craft brewing industry 4% in to 6.5% in 2012. Total beer sales increased 1% in 2012 to $99 billion. Craft beer sales grew 15%, so sales of other beer grew by 0.1% in 2012. There's not a lot of growth to go around, and the craft brewers are doing something right. I think the big brewers are concerned, and want to stop losing market share. If the big brewers wish to copy some of their methods, that's their prerogative. But they shouldn't be able to hide that they're the producer. You can debate if the 5th and 7th largest breweries in the country are in fact "craft" brewers, but Boston Beer and Sierra Nevada do not hide who they are. If I want to drink BMC faux-craft beer, I should be able to. If I don't want to, they shouldn't be allowed to squeeze their competition off the shelves via liquor laws or by producing faux craft beers.

When I lived in Chicago in the mid 1990s I used to go to Goose Island frequently. I hadn't had their beer in a while, but recently had a Bourbon County Stout. If InBev owns them, should I not have any more Bourbon County Stout? I see InBev also owns 1/3 of the Craft Brew Alliance, which owns Widmer Brothers, Redhook and Kona Brewing. I'm for truth in advertising and drinking what you want. It seems like the big guys aren't for it, so I'll vote with my wallet and avoid faux craft brews. Now if I could only find more KBS, I might not want more BCS...

LandoLincoln said:

And as soon as Boston Brewing sells more beer, they'll change the definition again.

So yeah, it's a silly definition.

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No, it's an evolving market. As the concept of craft beer changes, the people who work in the field and for the field will continue to evolve with it.

For example, I am a city forester. 30 years ago maintenance methods that were thought to be perfectly fine are now frowned upon. Part of it is driven by science, but part of it is driven by people's attitudes and the changing perception of how we should be managing trees in an urban environment. Our professional association can't still talk about the things we used to do and still recommend them because they would no longer be serving the industry.

weirdboy said:

The reason it's called faux craft is because they conceal the fact it's made by BMC. You can go to a grocery store now and see typically several shelves filled with BMC, sitting next to one or two shelves of craft beer from actual smaller breweries. The reason for faux craft from BMC is to fill up those one or two shelves with their own product, thereby preventing the actual small craft beers from having shelf space. There is a similar analogy for taps in a bar. In a typical (non craft) bar around here, you might have 5-6 taps of BMC beers, and then one or two craft beers. A faux craft beer is going to occupy the spot that is usually occupied by (at least around here) Fat Tire, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Lagunitas IPA, or Stone Pale/IPA in those types of bars. I suppose in CT it might be more like DFH 60 or 90 minute IPA.

A BMC drinker isn't going to notice the difference between the faux craft beers and the actual small craft beers. Either they will choose to branch out and drink "craft" beer or not, but that shelf being occupied by BMC faux craft isn't going to sway them one way or another.

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This is how big cooperation squeeze out the little guys on the Food Market Shelves.... Ya see a lot of Campbell Soup for example takig uo lots of space that a new comer cannot use

forstmeister said:

No, it's an evolving market. As the concept of craft beer changes, the people who work in the field and for the field will continue to evolve with it.

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Changing the definition of "craft beer" from "breweries making less than 2 million barrels a year" to "breweries making less then 6 million barrels a year" just because Boston Beer Co no longer fit the definition is silly. But then again, the rest of the definition is pretty silly as well, so...

Why not just change the definition to "whatever annual volume Boston Beer Company makes, or less." That will save them the trouble if / when Boston Beer Company gets over the 6 million barrels mark.

Everybody knows that 7 million barrels of craft beer a year just couldn't be made. That's just freaking impossible. If you try to make 7 million barrels of a nice IIPA, as soon as that seven millionth barrel was made...BAM! It would all turn into light pilsner.

It's science.

forstmeister said:

No, it's an evolving market. As the concept of craft beer changes, the people who work in the field and for the field will continue to evolve with it.

For example, I am a city forester. 30 years ago maintenance methods that were thought to be perfectly fine are now frowned upon. Part of it is driven by science, but part of it is driven by people's attitudes and the changing perception of how we should be managing trees in an urban environment. Our professional association can't still talk about the things we used to do and still recommend them because they would no longer be serving the industry.

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So the concept of craft brewing is those breweries getting bigger. Yet, you seem to hate BMC because of their size and influence.

Are you suggesting Stone, Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, etc. don't want to grow and have more influence in the beer community?

Regarding the big boys: I have no problem with BMC or any other major brewer. I'm a free enterprise kinda guy. I'm not an anti big business or redistribution of wealth type either. My issues as stated earlier:
1. misleading the public about your "craft" beer
2. holding down the small business man/woman via the 3-tier system while using it to fill shelves and taps with your faux craft brands

BTW, I only brew because I enjoy it not because I can't find good beer. Hell, I can go to my local Kroger and buy beer much better than I can brew and my back doesn't hurt afterward. I'm 52 and can afford to do many things and the brewing is just a hobby. I'm also hoping the laws here in GA regarding brewing change in 2014. There are quite a few wineries in N GA now and they can sell right on premises. But a brewer can't. Thus, we have only a handful of craft brewers in a state with 10-million people. If the law changes in the next few years, I would seriously consider opening something around here if I could find good people to employ or partner with. I'm certainly not going to work seven days a week running a brewery when I don't have to

DPBISME said:

This is how big cooperation squeeze out the little guys on the Food Market Shelves.... Ya see a lot of Campbell Soup for example takig uo lots of space that a new comer cannot use

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I understand there are a lot of underhanded practices in the shelving space world. But honestly, who wouldn't take advantage of that. As a business owner, would you just nicely give up your shelf space, so a direct competitor could put their product right next to yours? I don't know this, I'm asking this as a serious question, but if Sam at Dogfishhead (or name your local brewery) were given and entire shelf of fridge space in a major grocery or liquor store chain, do you think he would say, "You know what, I only want half the shelf, the rest I would rather have filled up with other craft breweries."? Where from what I've read on most of the craft breweries, I don't think they'd go to the lengths that BMC has gone to, to secure stores, I really don't think they'd give up shelf space if it meant a loss of profit for themselves.

AZ_IPA said:

So the concept of craft brewing is those breweries getting bigger. Yet, you seem to hate BMC because of their size and influence.

Are you suggesting Stone, Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, etc. don't want to grow and have more influence in the beer community?

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Lets be fair here. I never railed against the big guys to begin with. Every company gets a chance, that's the beauty of the free market.

That being said, I choose to support smaller operations in most facets of my life right down to grocery stores and other necessities. I buy my meat from a farm. I get all my family's milk from another farm (I live in Chicago by the way so don't think it's due to rural availability- anything is possible if you are willing to try).

I hope the companies you mentioned continue to expand and evolve. It will mean a healthy market for craft beer exists. Like someone else said earlier, maybe it will force BMC to adapt too. Maybe not.

Can't we all just agree that we live in a great time of history for beer? (Personally I worry that the craft bubble is going to burst at any given moment)

Clonefan94 said:

I understand there are a lot of underhanded practices in the shelving space world. But honestly, who wouldn't take advantage of that. As a business owner, would you just nicely give up your shelf space, so a direct competitor could put their product right next to yours? I don't know this, I'm asking this as a serious question, but if Sam at Dogfishhead (or name your local brewery) were given and entire shelf of fridge space in a major grocery or liquor store chain, do you think he would say, "You know what, I only want half the shelf, the rest I would rather have filled up with other craft breweries."? Where from what I've read on most of the craft breweries, I don't think they'd go to the lengths that BMC has gone to, to secure stores, I really don't think they'd give up shelf space if it meant a loss of profit for themselves.

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My bro was a rep for a local (mostly) Miller distributor for a while and you are darned right that he fought to keep his product up front. Of course, his company also sold Sam, Guinness, and Corona just to name a few. You gotta push what is going to sell for you, even if you don't like it.

forstmeister said:

(Personally I worry that the craft bubble is going to burst at any given moment)

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I think it's safe for a while. I'm sure we'll see an interesting wave of big beer becoming minority investors in craft breweries and that may or may not become the norm for a while. Look at Terrapin for those who are familiar with it. They sold a minority share to Coors a couple years ago. Now Coors is behind them but staying out of the way. Instead, that has given Terrapin the opportunity to actually brew more of exactly what they want to brew. I don't know, I think if big beer wants a bigger share of the market, they should do it that way. I'd have to guess a number of larger craft breweries would be willing.

The flavorful beers might be a fad for some, but for passionate homebrewers like most of us, it's definitely not a fad.

I don't think American craft beer will ever die or even be significantly weakened. Perhaps some breweries that exist now may be forced to close up shop, but that's just part of competition. I feel like bigger craft breweries with more reputation are moreso the enemy of the really little guys.

That said of course I don't agree with the whole three tier system thing or the new "faux craft" tactic. I really don't think this "crafty" tactic as far as something like Batch 19 goes is going to work out for them. Sure, owning all of the breweries that they do is helpful, but I don't see Batch 19 flying off the shelves (though I admittedly have no numbers), at least where I am. I think most people who are into craft brew either know already or will only be fooled once, while the "typical" BMC crowd is probably just not interested.

Clonefan94 said:

I understand there are a lot of underhanded practices in the shelving space world. But honestly, who wouldn't take advantage of that. As a business owner, would you just nicely give up your shelf space, so a direct competitor could put their product right next to yours? I don't know this, I'm asking this as a serious question, but if Sam at Dogfishhead (or name your local brewery) were given and entire shelf of fridge space in a major grocery or liquor store chain, do you think he would say, "You know what, I only want half the shelf, the rest I would rather have filled up with other craft breweries."? Where from what I've read on most of the craft breweries, I don't think they'd go to the lengths that BMC has gone to, to secure stores, I really don't think they'd give up shelf space if it meant a loss of profit for themselves.

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You may be right... I was just using a know example... same thing happens with a lot of products from laundry detergent to whatever....

... and though I have only heard of a few underhanded "craft brewers"... they do exist...

It sounds like states differ quite a bit. I'm not sure what it looks like elsewhere, but in CT, my two local package stores have only 20% of their fridge space dedicated to BMC. For example, out of the 8 doors on one cooler, the first 3 (closest to the entrance) are all craft, some pretty local and obscure, the 4th is 1/2 mike's lemonade type stuff and the craft version of the same. Doors 5 and 6 are like the DMZ, killians, guinness, etc. the 7th is half the faux craft and half stuff like rolling rock and pabst.....the 8th door, all the way at the back of the store) is your BMC typical stuff. They get very little shelf space and it's definitely not clearly visible. Most of our package stores have a similar distribution of cooler space, and the craft gets a row or two of room temp bottles as well.

My point about the faux stealing shelf space, is that while in the short term, fooling customers into trying "craft" with the faux stuff does steal from the little guy, they will inevitably brach out further into the real craft. Once the second shift occurs, customer demand or buying habits would re-bias distribution of space towards true craft beer.

It is mainly states where beer is sold in grocery/convenience stores where the shelf space is an issue. Those places usually let the distributors who give them the best deals set the shelves. In package stores they set them by what customers are going to buy. Even in the states that allow sales from grocery stores, if you go to the Total Wine type places craft is usually up front

Clonefan94 said:

I understand there are a lot of underhanded practices in the shelving space world. But honestly, who wouldn't take advantage of that. As a business owner, would you just nicely give up your shelf space, so a direct competitor could put their product right next to yours? I don't know this, I'm asking this as a serious question, but if Sam at Dogfishhead (or name your local brewery) were given and entire shelf of fridge space in a major grocery or liquor store chain, do you think he would say, "You know what, I only want half the shelf, the rest I would rather have filled up with other craft breweries."? Where from what I've read on most of the craft breweries, I don't think they'd go to the lengths that BMC has gone to, to secure stores, I really don't think they'd give up shelf space if it meant a loss of profit for themselves.

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Of course no responsible business would willingly just give up market share to a competitor. But there's a line between fair competition and market engineering, and it's not a fine line at that. More breweries means more competition which means better products for everyone. Fewer breweries means fewer choices, which means that the quality of the offered products can suffer since there isn't a better choice.

A good counterexample to fair competition is how Wal-Mart has helped to establish the cheap, disposable, will-break-as-soon-as-the-warranty-expires item as the norm rather than an quality made product that will last for a long time. Now it's just a race to the bottom of the price barrel, but not simply because Wal-Mart has the cheapest prices on many things, but rather because they've managed to leverage their wealth and influence in such a way that they've put their competitors out of business and now you have but only one choice.

This isn't even my analysis. This is well-documented fact. The same thing basically happened with American breweries and now the public is waking up to the fact that commodity products are often vastly inferior to locally-produced ones. Hence a lot of this "buy local" movement and the rising success of the craft beer industry.

Spintab said:

I think it's safe for a while. I'm sure we'll see an interesting wave of big beer becoming minority investors in craft breweries and that may or may not become the norm for a while. Look at Terrapin for those who are familiar with it. They sold a minority share to Coors a couple years ago. Now Coors is behind them but staying out of the way. Instead, that has given Terrapin the opportunity to actually brew more of exactly what they want to brew. I don't know, I think if big beer wants a bigger share of the market, they should do it that way. I'd have to guess a number of larger craft breweries would be willing.

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I don't see this as unfair competition, and I think I'm just fine with this.

Evan_L said:

It sounds like states differ quite a bit. I'm not sure what it looks like elsewhere, but in CT, my two local package stores have only 20% of their fridge space dedicated to BMC. For example, out of the 8 doors on one cooler, the first 3 (closest to the entrance) are all craft, some pretty local and obscure, the 4th is 1/2 mike's lemonade type stuff and the craft version of the same. Doors 5 and 6 are like the DMZ, killians, guinness, etc. the 7th is half the faux craft and half stuff like rolling rock and pabst.....the 8th door, all the way at the back of the store) is your BMC typical stuff. They get very little shelf space and it's definitely not clearly visible. Most of our package stores have a similar distribution of cooler space, and the craft gets a row or two of room temp bottles as well.

My point about the faux stealing shelf space, is that while in the short term, fooling customers into trying "craft" with the faux stuff does steal from the little guy, they will inevitably brach out further into the real craft. Once the second shift occurs, customer demand or buying habits would re-bias distribution of space towards true craft beer.

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That area of CT has always been up on craft beer. I grew up in Ashford, right down the road, and I always love going home to see how much more craft is on the shelves. I found Bitches Brew, Life and Limb, and SN Estate Ale all next to each other the last time I was home. Ah the memories. We used to get Magic Hat #9 when it came in 9 packs.

Is there any legitimate defense for the 3-tier system, from the point of view of a craft brewer?