Force Carbing with Long Diptube (Out) Diptube?

So I was cleaning and sanitizing a ball lock corny one night when I was tired and put the dip tubes in the wrong sides. When I hooked up the gas I heard the keg blowing bubbles and thought it was odd, but just went to bed. Two days later I went to pull a sample and only pulled gas; it was then that I realized my bone headed mistake.

The sample had already reached 1 volume in just two days. I injected with 6 PSI at 55 degrees.

Has anyone else performed this experiment with a control?

Yeah - that is basically how use use a carbonation stone except you use the proper dip tube and just attached some tubing to get the bubbler down near the bottle. You are creating more surface area to diffuse the co2 through, so you dramatically decrease the absorption time. Big bubbles = a little more surface area. Tiny bubbles = a ton more surface area.

It's a good strategy that I use from time to time when I need the beer carbonated yesterday. The biggest barrier to CO2 being absorbed into solution is the surface area of the liquid / gas interface. By releasing the CO2 at the bottom of the liquid dip tube, you are creating a small sphere which then has to travel all the way up to the headspace. When it gets there, it causes a ripple. This ripple helps lower the surface tension of the liquid (beer) a bit so gas can be more readily absorbed. Of course, more pressure = more bubbles from the bottom = faster carb time.

Why not do it every time? I'm too lazy to switch a gas line to a liquid connector and then back again.

Without a diffusion stone to break up into millions of smaller bubbles, this method only provides a very marginal gain in carbonation speed. As suggested above, the gain isn't worth the trouble of swapping the tubes later. They do make a lid with a bubbler wand in it that you can either leave in the keg or swap out after carbonation is complete.

How hard is it to replace the dip tubes? I've been thinking about using a keg to carbonate beer faster, and getting one keg to use just for that purpose with a diffusion stone on a long dip gas dip tube. I have seen these for sale in the past, but now that I go to look for one, I can't find it. I see that there are the lid kits, but that looks like its just going to wind up a big mess pulling the lid off with the floppy vinyl tubing.
TD

With a tiny bit of ingenuity, you could rig up a piece of tubing to your already-existing gas-in post, and put a diffusion stone on the other end. Ive used this method before but personally, I don't like it due to sanitation concerns. I just don't feel lt's worth the extra risk to shave a only a little bit of time to carbonate. However, if you want to try it out, it does deal with not having to buy/modify an extra lid.

billybryson54 said:

With a tiny bit of ingenuity, you could rig up a piece of tubing to your already-existing gas-in post, and put a diffusion stone on the other end. Ive used this method before but personally, I don't like it due to sanitation concerns. I just don't feel lt's worth the extra risk to shave a only a little bit of time to carbonate. However, if you want to try it out, it does deal with not having to buy/modify an extra lid.

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Hmm good call.

I have a stone sintered (what exactly sintered means I don't know) to a SS rod, roughly the same size as a dip tube. I use for oxygenating my wort. I wonder if the length is about right to put into a corny keg that has a straight dip tube, and then I wouldn't need to buy a thing! BUT I would have to disassemble to get it in and out.

Is there a way to accurately measure the volumes of co2 dissolved in a keg? Is there a way to calculate rate of carbonation using these diffusion stones, at a certain pressure and certain temperature?

TD

Had another thought about using my existing oxygenation stone on a SS wand instead of in place of the gas in dip tube, installed on a spare keg lid. Fitted with a gas post. Not sure how the parts would all connect though.

That is virtually what a brite tank is right? A vessel with more surface area on top than a conical, with a diffuser in it? Get a diffuser, turn your keg on its side. Done. Most breweries are utilizing brite tanks for only a few days, if that tells you anything.

inthesound said:

That is virtually what a brite tank is right? A vessel with more surface area on top than a conical, with a diffuser in it? Get a diffuser, turn your keg on its side. Done. Most breweries are utilizing brite tanks for only a few days, if that tells you anything.

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It'd be tough for me to put my keg on its side in the fridge, but I see your point. the oxygenation device i use is a diffuser but I use it for oxygen, I imagine CO2 would work just as well.

TD

I put carb stones in all my serving kegs. Cost me about $17 each. I got my stones from Austin Homebrewing Supply, but I am sure others sell the same thing... just the hose and a bit of tube to go from the gas in to the bottom of the keg. Cleaning them really isn't hard. You let it soak in pbw over night (which I do anyway) then when you are rinsing the keg, spray rinse water over the stone while running a little gas through it. Gets all the junk out nicely... Then, let it soak in your no rinse santi of choice for a bit, another quick blast with the gas and you're good to go. That is basically the method I have always used on large stones in commercial BBTs

wailingguitar said:

I put carb stones in all my serving kegs. Cost me about $17 each. I got my stones from Austin Homebrewing Supply, but I am sure others sell the same thing... just the hose and a bit of tube to go from the gas in to the bottom of the keg. Cleaning them really isn't hard. You let it soak in pbw over night (which I do anyway) then when you are rinsing the keg, spray rinse water over the stone while running a little gas through it. Gets all the junk out nicely... Then, let it soak in your no rinse santi of choice for a bit, another quick blast with the gas and you're good to go. That is basically the method I have always used on large stones in commercial BBTs

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How long do your beers take to fully carbonate with these stone you're using? I assume you set to desired serve pressure and carbonation level and let them ride or do you crank up the pressure for a few days?
The stone hooks to vinyl tubing and connected to the gas dip tube slip on or is there some special gas in tube?
I'm going to look at the AHS site next.
Thanks

TD

Good point about the fridge and not being able to lay your kegs on their side. During the winter, it's been easy to keep kegs out in the garage (though dealing with temp flux is a pain), but I force carb to 30psi, shake, tilt on side, disconnect my gas line when I can't hear anymore CO2 coming in, and let it sit for 24 hours. Purge all CO2, set up to desired serving pressure, wait another 24 hours. Golden girls. A diffuser may be necessary for me once I pick up a fridge.

inthesound said:

Good point about the fridge and not being able to lay your kegs on their side. During the winter, it's been easy to keep kegs out in the garage (though dealing with temp flux is a pain), but I force carb to 30psi, shake, tilt on side, disconnect my gas line when I can't hear anymore CO2 coming in, and let it sit for 24 hours. Purge all CO2, set up to desired serving pressure, wait another 24 hours. Golden girls. A diffuser may be necessary for me once I pick up a fridge.

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The AHS diffusion stone lists instructions and it seems that it probably works extremely fast, as in less than an hour with cold beer. I think I am going to buy one and give it a try. But connecting with just vinyl or silicone tubing and a worm clamp to both ends. I have no idea what my oxygenation stone micron size is and this rapid method appears to describe the 0.5 micron stone. it also cautions about not touching the stone blah blah blah. My current oxygenation stone/wand have touched it with my pudgy fingers plenty of times, and I've never boiled it once. I read all the cautions about this stuff. I haven't had a problem (yet) but will be more cautious. I am pretty sure shooting pure O2 though it is going to probably kill anything trying to make a home in it.

Thanks

TD

I got the 0.5 Micron stones. Have them connected with vinyl tubing, some have stainless steel worm clamps, some don't... depends on how snug they fit, didn't seem to matter much to be honest. While it would certainly be possible to carb cold beer in an hour or so if you hiked the pressure and kept bleeding off (basically how it's done in a commercial setting), I like simple, so I don't fool with that. Beer will have been crashed for a day or two, purge and fill the keg, burp it a few times, put the keg in the kegerator, set at serving pressure and it's ready in 48 hours or less. It might be carbed sooner than 48, but I am also waiting on my finings to fully do their thing, so...

wailingguitar said:

I got the 0.5 Micron stones. Have them connected with vinyl tubing, some have stainless steel worm clamps, some don't... depends on how snug they fit, didn't seem to matter much to be honest. While it would certainly be possible to carb cold beer in an hour or so if you hiked the pressure and kept bleeding off (basically how it's done in a commercial setting), I like simple, so I don't fool with that. I put the keg in the kegerator, set at serving pressure and it's ready in 48 hours or less. It might be carbed sooner than 48, but I am also waiting on my finings to fully do their thing, so...

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Good to know! 48 hours is much better than 2 weeks. I had a big party last weekend, and couldn't serve any beer because had not fully carbonated.
I'm going to order a stone and be done with this issue.

Greetings,


I attached my carb stone to my gas in post, started carving by slowly increasing the pressure, but beer is undercarbed if at all after 24 hrs and picnic tap won't turn off when connected. A fookin mess of good brown ale. Any thoughts on helping me with this one mates?

elreplica said:

Greetings,

I attached my carb stone to my gas in post, started carving by slowly increasing the pressure, but beer is undercarbed if at all after 24 hrs and picnic tap won't turn off when connected. A fookin mess of good brown ale. Any thoughts on helping me with this one mates?

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Me bad... I swapped taps and it turned out it was a sticky tap issue. Carbing seems to be taking longer than I thought - certainly more than the 24 hrs some say happens... But it is better than no stone.

old post but just came across this thinking about a similar thing. with the new float systems used to draw beer from the top of the keg & universal posts available. MoreBeer (while promoting their products) suggested swapping the float with the short tube, and gas into the long tube.

I already own a clear beer system, but just naturally swapped it for the long dip tube. I may give this a shot next time I keg though. Won't be any less sanitary or difficult than what I have setup right now. Just wasn't sure of the down sides, but this post has me confident that would be ok

thanks everyone for the info. helping me out years later!