Yeast Washing Illustrated

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So something occurred to me, how about moving the harvesting to the beginning of the brew process instead of the cumbersome end? Afterall brewers gotta be planners to some degree.

My last brew had an expected og of 1.068, so I bought a vial of wlp002 and was going to do a starter.

I ended up doing a starter in a one gallon carboy I bought at the lhbs for like 5 bucks.

After putting it in the fridge for a few hours after it was done with peak fermentation, I poured off 2/3 of the starter beer into a large sanitized mason jar, then swirled and pitched half of the remains into the fermenter. The rest I poured into a few smaller mason jars equally and then topped off completely with the beer from the other big jar.

I basically made a starter twice the size that I needed and used half for harvesting which puts me back at the correct pitch into my wort.

This was so much easier than cleaning because of obvious reasons, I've got pure yeast in my jars that are brilliantly white, very neutral beer sitting on top, and I didn't have to dick around with a huge carboy to settle and pour.

I plan in doing this again with any new yeast and with the starters. It was so much easier for me.

Unless you are trying to get some characteristics from mutations of a full batch ferment, I think my method probably has a higher chance of preserving the original integrity of the yeast.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts as I did this without researching so I'm not sure if I am using some faulty logic here.
 
Recently I have had to do most of my kegging/bottling fo multiple batches on the same day. I have been washing more than one batch of the same yeast at a time and collecting the yeast from the second washing in large 1/2-1 gallon jars. After chilling these for several days I transfer the yeast to smaller jars but in the process I have to pour off the unwanted liquid and then shake the remaining contents to loosen up the remaining compacted yeast to pour into smaller jars. Is the shaking of these jars going to be bad for the yeast via adding some unwanted oxygen?
 
msa8967 said:
Is the shaking of these jars going to be bad for the yeast via adding some unwanted oxygen?
Click to expand...

No. Oxygen is great for yeast, they love it. The problem is that they don't go down the fermentation pathway when O2 is available, so you end up with undesirable results in your beer. (Excess oxygen can also lead to off flavors if the yeast don't consume it before they conk out.) Having O2 around is only a problem post (or late in) fermentation.
 
zeg said:
No. Oxygen is great for yeast, they love it. The problem is that they don't go down the fermentation pathway when O2 is available, so you end up with undesirable results in your beer. (Excess oxygen can also lead to off flavors if the yeast don't consume it before they conk out.) Having O2 around is only a problem post (or late in) fermentation.
Click to expand...

The thanks for the info. I thought that boilling much of the oxygen from the water was ideal to help keep the yeast asleep. Thus, I was concerned that skaing the yeast slurry would create a problem.
 
My understanding is that Oxygen is detrimental to yeast during the storage process. This certainly applies to dry yeast and I would have thought O2 in the water used to store the yeast would also be something to avoid.
I have gone down the path of boiling the distilled water which I store the rinsed yeast under.
 
You don't want oxygen in your yeast storage water because they will try to stay active with little to no food available. Wears them down. They come out not worth a darn.
 
shaunvfx said:
So something occurred to me, how about moving the harvesting to the beginning of the brew process instead of the cumbersome end? Afterall brewers gotta be planners to some degree.

My last brew had an expected og of 1.068, so I bought a vial of wlp002 and was going to do a starter.

I ended up doing a starter in a one gallon carboy I bought at the lhbs for like 5 bucks.

After putting it in the fridge for a few hours after it was done with peak fermentation, I poured off 2/3 of the starter beer into a large sanitized mason jar, then swirled and pitched half of the remains into the fermenter. The rest I poured into a few smaller mason jars equally and then topped off completely with the beer from the other big jar.

I basically made a starter twice the size that I needed and used half for harvesting which puts me back at the correct pitch into my wort.

This was so much easier than cleaning because of obvious reasons, I've got pure yeast in my jars that are brilliantly white, very neutral beer sitting on top, and I didn't have to dick around with a huge carboy to settle and pour.

I plan in doing this again with any new yeast and with the starters. It was so much easier for me.

Unless you are trying to get some characteristics from mutations of a full batch ferment, I think my method probably has a higher chance of preserving the original integrity of the yeast.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts as I did this without researching so I'm not sure if I am using some faulty logic here.
Click to expand...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/yeast-harvesting-novel-approach.html

You'll never go back ;)
 
jeepinjeepin said:
You don't want oxygen in your yeast storage water because they will try to stay active with little to no food available. Wears them down. They come out not worth a darn.
Click to expand...

Yes. Sorry, I stand corrected. I was thinking about starters, not storage, when I wrote my message.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-storage.cfm

For rinsing, stirring up the yeast is a necessary step, so you have to live with the oxygenation. Starting with boiled water will minimize the oxygenation, and you'll benefit from the fact that sloshing water around is not a terribly effective way to aerate. Swirl as gently as you can, don't shake it up, and you'll be ok.
 
I'm sure its been asked in the 100 something pages but anyone have any tips for doing this with the cake from stouts? It's hard to see the difference when things settle.
 
zeg said:
Yes. Sorry, I stand corrected. I was thinking about starters, not storage, when I wrote my message.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-storage.cfm

For rinsing, stirring up the yeast is a necessary step, so you have to live with the oxygenation. Starting with boiled water will minimize the oxygenation, and you'll benefit from the fact that sloshing water around is not a terribly effective way to aerate. Swirl as gently as you can, don't shake it up, and you'll be ok.
Click to expand...

I was thinking that keeping the yeast cold that their reproduction activity would be minimized.
 
shaunvfx said:
So something occurred to me, how about moving the harvesting to the beginning of the brew process instead of the cumbersome end? Afterall brewers gotta be planners to some degree.

My last brew had an expected og of 1.068, so I bought a vial of wlp002 and was going to do a starter.

I ended up doing a starter in a one gallon carboy I bought at the lhbs for like 5 bucks.

After putting it in the fridge for a few hours after it was done with peak fermentation, I poured off 2/3 of the starter beer into a large sanitized mason jar, then swirled and pitched half of the remains into the fermenter. The rest I poured into a few smaller mason jars equally and then topped off completely with the beer from the other big jar.

I basically made a starter twice the size that I needed and used half for harvesting which puts me back at the correct pitch into my wort.

This was so much easier than cleaning because of obvious reasons, I've got pure yeast in my jars that are brilliantly white, very neutral beer sitting on top, and I didn't have to dick around with a huge carboy to settle and pour.

I plan in doing this again with any new yeast and with the starters. It was so much easier for me.

Unless you are trying to get some characteristics from mutations of a full batch ferment, I think my method probably has a higher chance of preserving the original integrity of the yeast.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts as I did this without researching so I'm not sure if I am using some faulty logic here.
Click to expand...

Thats usually what I do too. If I buy a vial I make a few batches out of it size depending how much I want to farm of it, by making a largeish starter origionally. Since I do 2.5 gallons it makes it easy to do a 1.5 liter and split it up between 3-4 vials/batches to store,then just make another small starter when I brew with it next batch.

I would recommend putting an airlock on it after a few days,let it ferment out maybe a few more then crash it in the fridge and decant and store in whatever you store it in, I like the wlp vials to reuse.
 
msa8967 said:
I was thinking that keeping the yeast cold that their reproduction activity would be minimized.
Click to expand...

That should help a lot. I think you'd have to pretty seriously aerate them to ruin a rinsed batch, though. I've never seen any signs of life until I re-pitch them into a starter (though I've only re-pitched about a half dozen times, from two rinsings). If it were a delicate situation, I don't think many people would rinse successfully.
 
KeyWestBrewing said:
I'm sure its been asked in the 100 something pages but anyone have any tips for doing this with the cake from stouts? It's hard to see the difference when things settle.
Click to expand...

Well I figured out how to answer my own question and will share what I learned in the process. With darker beers it helps to do the washing on somewhat a bigger scale using more water. Adding more water dilutes the beer enough to be able to see the difference in trub from yeast. You have to use about double the water and more big jars but it worked better for me doing it this way.
 
KeyWestBrewing said:
Well I figured out how to answer my own question and will share what I learned in the process. With darker beers it helps to do the washing on somewhat a bigger scale using more water. Adding more water dilutes the beer enough to be able to see the difference in trub from yeast. You have to use about double the water and more big jars but it worked better for me doing it this way.
Click to expand...

I'll be washing from a stout tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!
 
KeyWestBrewing said:
Well I figured out how to answer my own question and will share what I learned in the process. With darker beers it helps to do the washing on somewhat a bigger scale using more water. Adding more water dilutes the beer enough to be able to see the difference in trub from yeast. You have to use about double the water and more big jars but it worked better for me doing it this way.
Click to expand...

When washing the yeast from stouts and porters I use twice the water and give it twice the time for each step compared to washing ales. I also use my auto-siphon to transfer the yeast water in each step.
 
msa8967 said:
When washing the yeast from stouts and porters I use twice the water and give it twice the time for each step compared to washing ales. I also use my auto-siphon to transfer the yeast water in each step.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much what I did except I used a turkey baster once I got it in jars.
 
I used a washed jar of Pacman yesterday dated 05/22/12. I don't really wash, and re-wash as others do, just dump the contents from the carboy to a jar, then decant into another jar. There is always trub leftover.

The yeast layer from the 05/22 jar was just as white yesterday as it was last year.

I made a 1.6L starter and it took off within 12 hours; a fast and furious fermentation too.

I have another jar dated 05/22, we'll see how that looks down the road.
 
KeyWestBrewing said:
Well I figured out how to answer my own question and will share what I learned in the process. With darker beers it helps to do the washing on somewhat a bigger scale using more water. Adding more water dilutes the beer enough to be able to see the difference in trub from yeast. You have to use about double the water and more big jars but it worked better for me doing it this way.
Click to expand...

h4mmy86 said:
I'll be washing from a stout tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!
Click to expand...

Another option is to steal some clean yeast from your starter prior to pitching.
 
I'm about to bottle a batch of English IPA that has all they British ale yeast I have left in the house. I dry hopped this batch, so is that okay to wash and reuse?
 
Just measured a 77% attenuation from Cry Havoc harvest from DECEMBER 2012! First reuse.

Two separate 2 L starters brewed. One measured 1.020 and I didn't measure the first one.

OG 1.062
FG 1.014 and it MIGHT go a little lower.

He about an inch of yeast in the bottom of a quart jar. Wish I had someone to trade for pints so I could keep this stuff in smaller containers.
 
Can I use something other than malt or malt extract to make a "wort" to use as a starter? I need somethiing more available from the household since I have only limited access to supplies and can't get any extra malt other than whats dedicated to my recipes (Sharia law situation). Would sugar work or some sort of juice or rice or oats?
 
KVANTAN said:
Can I use something other than malt or malt extract to make a "wort" to use as a starter? I need somethiing more available from the household since I have only limited access to supplies and can't get any extra malt other than whats dedicated to my recipes (Sharia law situation). Would sugar work or some sort of juice or rice or oats?
Click to expand...

The best thing to use is malt extract but in a pinch I've used apple juice with success. I've heard Malta recommended before as well.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_(soft_drink)#section_1

There's a link showing more about what it is and the different brands sold around the world. Maybe you can find one of these brands or something similar.
 
KVANTAN said:
Can I use something other than malt or malt extract to make a "wort" to use as a starter? I need somethiing more available from the household since I have only limited access to supplies and can't get any extra malt other than whats dedicated to my recipes (Sharia law situation). Would sugar work or some sort of juice or rice or oats?
Click to expand...
So how do you get supplies to make beer if you can regularly get malt extract?
 
mtnagel said:
So how do you get supplies to make beer if you can regularly get malt extract?
Click to expand...

I make trips to the USA and I have friends bring extract kits over. I also shipped some. About a 5 month lag time between ordering and receiving.
 
KeyWestBrewing said:
The best thing to use is malt extract but in a pinch I've used apple juice with success. I've heard Malta recommended before as well.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_(soft_drink)#section_1

There's a link showing more about what it is and the different brands sold around the world. Maybe you can find one of these brands or something similar.
Click to expand...

I know exactly the one. We have it here, many thanks. Asalamalaykum.
 
mtnagel said:
Wow! And I get annoyed with the 10 minute drive to my LHBS :)
Click to expand...

Haha..makes me appreciate the little things that is for sure. On a better note, we have a huge selection of fruit so all I need is the right yeast to get here in the next couple months and I can start making some cider, meads or ginger based experiments. Funny thing, all the apples here are from the USA. I am thinking of fermenting some watermelon juice with a champagne/wine yeast. Maybe I'll even get the old lady drunk with that!
 
KVANTAN said:
Haha..makes me appreciate the little things that is for sure. On a better note, we have a huge selection of fruit so all I need is the right yeast to get here in the next couple months and I can start making some cider, meads or ginger based experiments. Funny thing, all the apples here are from the USA. I am thinking of fermenting some watermelon juice with a champagne/wine yeast. Maybe I'll even get the old lady drunk with that!
Click to expand...

Glad I could help. Not sure where your at but one of my best friends just got back from deployment in Afghanistan and he was shocked to see how much watermelon everyone ate. Look up watermelon wine. I've heard it's pretty good.
 
So from the many pages I've read (Not all naturally) It seems a 1 pint mason jar of yeast is generally going to be fine for a starter with a normal gravity range.

My SG will be at 1.048 and I have 2 half pint glasses how do these look?

2013-04-11_12-29-18_760.jpg
 
I have a couple of questions that I've tried to glean from this thread, but at 188 pages its kinda of difficult.

I've done a test run at yeast washing.

1) After 20 to 30 minutes, the yeast/trub/water separate into suspended yeast, a settled yeast layer, and a settled trub layer.

Am I ok just pouring off the suspended yeast layer? The settled yeast area is sometimes not discernible, and even when it is, it seems almost impossible to pour that off without getting a lot of the trub.

Am I selecting for poorly flocculating yeast if I only take the suspended yeast or does it really matter since its only been 20 to 30 minutes?

2) I end up with four half quart jars, each with a little over 1/4" of creamy looking yeast and no noticeable trub. Due to my brewing habits, I'm not going to be able to use all four before their viability goes way down. I will just brew one batch with these. Is it a bad idea to pour off the beer and combine them for storage (takes up less fridge space)? Or should I leave them alone and combine them when I'm going to brew? I will make a starter either way.

Thanks for any help!
 
disney7 said:
I have a couple of questions that I've tried to glean from this thread, but at 188 pages its kinda of difficult.

I've done a test run at yeast washing.

1) After 20 to 30 minutes, the yeast/trub/water separate into suspended yeast, a settled yeast layer, and a settled trub layer.

Am I ok just pouring off the suspended yeast layer? The settled yeast area is sometimes not discernible, and even when it is, it seems almost impossible to pour that off without getting a lot of the trub.

Am I selecting for poorly flocculating yeast if I only take the suspended yeast or does it really matter since its only been 20 to 30 minutes?

2) I end up with four half quart jars, each with a little over 1/4" of creamy looking yeast and no noticeable trub. Due to my brewing habits, I'm not going to be able to use all four before their viability goes way down. I will just brew one batch with these. Is it a bad idea to pour off the beer and combine them for storage (takes up less fridge space)? Or should I leave them alone and combine them when I'm going to brew? I will make a starter either way.

Thanks for any help!
Click to expand...

1) A lot of the time I can't seem to see the layers but I have not had a problem with floccing of future batches doing it the way you described. Note: this won't work for all yeasts. Some of them actually floc out before the trub. It's just a matter of trial and error.

2) I combine mine all the time if I know I won't be using all 4 jars. Other than the tiny sanitization risk, there shouldn't be a problem.
 
In case anyone is wondering, a separatory funnel doesn't work well for separating the yeast from the trub. At least not with my dry hopped/"dump all the trub in the fermenter" pale ale that I just washed the yeast from. It seemed like a great idea, but the hops/stuff got stuck in the stopcock and nothing flowed out.

I'm still trying to figure out how I can use a faucet (like this or the one on bottling buckets) on some clear plastic (or glass) container so that I don't have to try to pour off the top yeast layer, which is never very efficient.

If you don't know what a separatory funnel is:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mtnagel said:
In case anyone is wondering, a separatory funnel doesn't work well for separating the yeast from the trub. At least not with my dry hopped/"dump all the trub in the fermenter" pale ale that I just washed the yeast from. It seemed like a great idea, but the hops/stuff got stuck in the stopcock and nothing flowed out.

I'm still trying to figure out how I can use a faucet (like this or the one on bottling buckets) on some clear plastic (or glass) container so that I don't have to try to pour off the top yeast layer, which is never very efficient.

If you don't know what a separatory funnel is:
Click to expand...

Why not just use an autosiphon and harvest the top layer that way?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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