Plastic vs Stainless Mash Tun

I'm starting to save up to make the jump to all grain brewing. Is there an advantage to using a stainless steel mash tun over the converted cooler type? I don't want to spend the money on a plastic one and in a couple years wish I had spent more money and just got the one I wanted right away.

from what I have read the coolers are much easier to regulate temps, the stainless sure look better when you have a fancy setup though

Wth a metal mash tun you are usually going to need some means of regulating the heat. Most of the setups with metal MT are using direct fire, RIMS or HERMS to keep the mash temp constant. With a cooler you rely on the insulating properties of the cooler to keep your temps consistent.

As a result, the difference is in the level of complexity and control you want/need in your set up. If you are new to brewing, starting with a good cooler MT will work very well to get you started. It may be all you ever need. However at the start, I would not worry about getting the blingy gear because until you understand how to use it, it will just be harder to use.

With stainless you can go direct fire.
Plastic coolers are cheap and work great.
A lot of beer is made with coolers.

The only thing that you can't easily do with a plastic cooler is raise the mash temperature. In order to do that in a cooler, you have to drain off some of the mash, heat it up, and hope you guess right. In a stainless kettle it's easy - just fire up the burner. However, there is a big price jump between the two. It costs a lot of money to be able to heat your mash up quickly and accurately. People do it because it's worth it to them. If you're just starting out doing AG then a cooler is fine.

What size batches will you be brewing?

Reindeer said:

I don't want to spend the money on a plastic one and in a couple years wish I had spent more money and just got the one I wanted right away.

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I really appreciate your sentiment in this. I like to get good tools too. I've found that its usually cheaper in the long run than buying cheap ones and then having to replace them later. And I totally agree with others who have said if you are starting out it's OK to buy a cooler. But I would suggest that if you think you are going to keep doing this, and you can afford it, you might want to look seriously at going stainless steel.

I used a cooler for quite a while and then, in an attempt to make it work better, managed to screw it up. It forced my hand into getting a new tun. I opted for the one MoreBeer sells for about $100. It comes pre-drilled and welded with fittings for a thermometer and ball valve. After buying the stuff to bring it on line I spent about $175 total. And it works way better than the cooler ever did.

Have you tried BIAB? I love it! No mash tun for me!

I started with a cooler but the liner started bubbling recently so I just bought an aluminum kettle (40 qt, 52$ lid incl on amazon) and will reuse my copper manifold in it. I may use a moving blanket to insulate, and if needed, will direct fire it to keep my temp to where I want it. Have fun!

Reindeer said:

I'm starting to save up to make the jump to all grain brewing. Is there an advantage to using a stainless steel mash tun over the converted cooler type? I don't want to spend the money on a plastic one and in a couple years wish I had spent more money and just got the one I wanted right away.

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Do you have any cooler already in the house? No need to buy one, just add a braid and hose, no need for a fancy bulkhead or stainless to start.

I have a cooler set up. Using Beersmith, I have done step mashes. Adjusting the temperature during a mash is easy. Keep some cold water on hand and some boiling water.

I do admire the bling RIMS and HERMS that you see on this site. I do not see me going there. I have zero plumbing or wiring aptitude.

I do ten gallon batches with two keggles and a 10 gal home depot water cooler for mash tun. I've made great beer with this set-up, but I feel limited when doing high gravity beers or want to step mash. I yearn for the third keggle, but haven't gone there yet.

I have a cooler and love it. After a few batches you get foot at nailing you mash temps and the cooler keeps the temps constant. My last ten gallon batch I covered the cooler with towels and it held 149F for 90 mins without losing a degree. I had worries about not being able to raise it but then I saw RIMS set-ups with coolers and plan on doing that someday if I need to. But right now I have found no need for anything but a cooler.

Puddlethumper said:

I really appreciate your sentiment in this. I like to get good tools too. I've found that its usually cheaper in the long run than buying cheap ones and then having to replace them later. And I totally agree with others who have said if you are starting out it's OK to buy a cooler. But I would suggest that if you think you are going to keep doing this, and you can afford it, you might want to look seriously at going stainless steel.

I used a cooler for quite a while and then, in an attempt to make it work better, managed to screw it up. It forced my hand into getting a new tun. I opted for the one MoreBeer sells for about $100. It comes pre-drilled and welded with fittings for a thermometer and ball valve. After buying the stuff to bring it on line I spent about $175 total. And it works way better than the cooler ever did.

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I'm definitely in this for the long haul, and while its not like I have loads of cash to blow, I can afford a little extra money if I can justify it.

2thGuy said:

...I had worries about not being able to raise it but then I saw RIMS set-ups with coolers...

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Rookie question--whats RIMS? I tried googling it and I just came up with pictures of car wheels.

I recently asked the same question. I have a dual keggle setup that I just invested in since im def in this for the long haul.

For me, it just made more sense to go with a 10 gallon cooler and heres why. Maybe this can help u think about what would work best for you.

I don't do ten gallon batches. With 15.5 gallon keggles, I could very easily. But Id rather make several different five gallon batches since my taste is constantly changing. With a 10 gallon cooler, I can make any kind of brew from a light hybrid lager to a barleywine with no problem.

Considering that I only have one burner currently and plan to look for a single tier build next year, the ten gallon cooler still works perfectly fine with the setup I would like to have. One BK, One MLT and one HLT. I'll add one more burner, two pumps and pretty much be done with it. I got a good deal on a 10 gallon Rubbermaid from Lowes (friend works there for I got a slight discount) but it was still only 48 bucks. Im gonna get the bulkhead setup from brewhardware.com and also plan on ordering a false bottom with 2 inch stand from Jay bird (found here http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.c...rect)|utmcmd=(none)&__utmv=-&__utmk=236634881)

So cost did play a big part, at least for what my long term goal would be. Yes im gonna invest in a new burner next year as well but if I went SS instead of cooler, i'd either have to go with three burners or find some other way to heat the water up. The cooler will hold temps perfectly fine for 60-90 minutes without any help (or maybe just a blanket for those 90 minute mashes). Its lightweight, easy to clean, and if u look around, as long as u get a good false bottom or manifold, ur not gonna get MUCH better efficiency with a SS vessel anyway. And thats advice I got from multiple moderators here with lots of brewing experience. And even if u aren't getting great efficiency, u can always up ur grainbill a bit and that won't cost much more per batch anyway.

Pratzie makes a lot of good points and I agree with virtually everything in his post. But I think the key in this discussion is in where you see yourself going with your brewing.

As for me, I want to be able to experiment with stepped mashes and that is what drove my decision to go with a stainless mash tun. It is very difficult to step the mash temp up from 110 to 160 over several steps without using heat applied from a burner. If you don't see yourself wanting to mess with that then a cooler mash tun will serve you very well for much less money than stainless. However, if you think you are likely to want to fiddle around with stepped mashes, then stainless may be your best choice.

On the subject of holding heat, I have found my stainless mash tun holds the mash at close to optimum temps really well. I do usually move it onto the burner on very low heat at about the 30 minute mark to keep the mash at 150 or above. Once it comes back up to about 152-153 I turn the heat off and it holds just fine until it is time to drain it. A 90 minute mash would require a couple more shots from the burner. I've been doing this with one burner. But I still prefer to add heat rather than adding more hot water and ending up with a really soupy mash. Generally I have found the stainless tun to be superior to the picnic cooler I was using before. (But this may simply be due to the quality of cooler I was using.)

Reindeer said:

Rookie question--whats RIMS? I tried googling it and I just came up with pictures of car wheels.

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I forget what exactly it stands for, Recirculating something. There are threads on here that explain it much better than I could. Search the topic "easy RIMS" and it should give you some good threads. But basically you make this "RIMS tube" with an electric heating element in it and a temperature probe and you pump the wort from your mash tun through this tube throughout the mash. If the probe reads a temp that's too low it heats the wort going through and keeps the temp low or can raise it through several temperature rests. The great thing about it is the hearing gues on outside of the cooler so it can work with college MTs.

With a SS mash tun, you can wrap it in an insulating material as well, skipping the direct heating. I took a rubber bottomed keg and wrapped it in K-Flex, which is used in industry to wrap steam pipes. I got mine off Grainger, a 1/2" thick 3'x4' sheet. In the center it holds the temp for hours, as well as a 7 day cooler, if not better on cold days.

I'm going to a RIMS system once I get the funds and will be able to use my existing mash tun and get better thermal efficiency than a bare SS tun.

RIMS stands for Recirculation Infusion Mash System, as said before, there is a tube with an electric element inside that you pump the wort through it an back into the mash tun.

With a RIMS and a cooler-MLT you can easily do step mashes. A RIMS will allow you to raise and regulate your temperature right up to mash-out.

A lot of us have been doing this successfully for a quite a while now.

processhead said:

With a RIMS and a cooler-MLT you can easily do step mashes. A RIMS will allow you to raise and regulate your temperature right up to mash-out.

A lot of us have been doing this successfully for a quite a while now.

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I'm still a newb to all this and that sounds really cool to me. How much does it typically cost to set something like that up?

Price will be a function of how much you can fabricate yourself vs. how much you purchase pre-assembled by someone else.

Also factor in your scrounging abilities for the pieces and parts you need since that will impact cost i.e. paying full retail vs. buying used or surplus components.

There are a lot of really good threads here with folks that have built there own RIMS gear.

the quickest, least expensive way to get started in all grain brewing is with a cooler. Most modern grain is well modified and will convert without step mashing. You can step mash in a cooler by infusion (stirring boiling water into your mash) or decoction (pulling out mash from your tun, heating it and stirring it back in) if you want.
I find that I can preheat my 'coleman extreme' mash tun with strike water that is a bit hotter than my desired strike temp and allow the temp to drift down to my strike temp, which preheats the mash tun and gets me easily to my strike temp in one step.. having some boiling water and some chilled water on hand to adjust your temp after mash in is an excellent suggestion .
I'm brewing on a brew stand with three burners but am sticking with the cooler for a mash tun because it just is so easy and works so well.

The easiest way to go all grain is with a cooler tun. Simple single infusion mashes with a batch sparge is all that is necessary for most brews. I used to mash in a pot via a burner and switched over to a cooler tun to make my brew day less labor intensive and boy did it ever. No more watching the pot and regulating the temp during the entire mash. I just heat my strike water, add it to my tun, let it sit for 10 min, add in grain, stir until the temp is where I want it to be, put the lid on, and go watch tv or do something else for an hour.

chrisdb said:

the quickest, least expensive way to get started in all grain brewing is with a cooler.

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Toga said:

The easiest way to go all grain is with a cooler tun.

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BIAB

LovesIPA said:

The only thing that you can't easily do with a plastic cooler is raise the mash temperature. In order to do that in a cooler, you have to drain off some of the mash, heat it up, and hope you guess right.

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Not quite right. Step infusion mashes use multiple additions of heated water to step a mash up in temps. A decoction removes the thicker/solids portion of the mash, boils it and adds it back. Both of these are more science than guess work and if you don't get it right it's because your math or measurement was off. Calculating how much energy needed to raise a given amount of grain to a given temperature is easy, accurate and repeatable.

Puddlethumper said:

I used a cooler for quite a while and then, in an attempt to make it work better, managed to screw it up. It forced my hand into getting a new tun. I opted for the one MoreBeer sells for about $100. It comes pre-drilled and welded with fittings for a thermometer and ball valve. After buying the stuff to bring it on line I spent about $175 total. And it works way better than the cooler ever did.

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Why, exactly does it work better? How are you using it that makes it better than a cooler?

If I want to direct fire, I can (and do) use BIAB in my kettle. I am totally baffled by this assertion.

I made the bag in an hour or so of hand sewing while I watched TV. If I had a sewing machine, it would have taken me a couple of minutes. It cost me about $12 in materials. My kettle already has a sight glass, ball valve, and thermometer fitting (although I use my thermapen), so it seems to me like I saved $163 with the BIAB setup. I only use the cooler when I have an extremely large grain bill nowadays, although I did use it a few months ago to do a sour mash for a Berliner Weisse.

weirdboy said:

Why, exactly does it work better? How are you using it that makes it better than a cooler?

I am totally baffled by this assertion.

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1. Thermometer mounted in the tun tells me exactly what's going on inside
2. Holds temperature very evenly
3. When temperature drops just add a little heat instead of boiling water
4. Improved efficiency through consistent mash temperature
5. Extremely easy clean-up and storage

I know there are a lot of guys who like to use coolers and, if that works for you, I think that's great. Sounds like you have a good system worked out.

I am not saying that I am "pro cooler" or "pro stainless" but I wanted to address your reasons, because I dislike the way misinformation like yours spreads on the internet.

Puddlethumper said:

1. Thermometer mounted in the tun tells me exactly what's going on inside

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OK well I suppose that is maybe important if you are just starting out or are a nervous wreck when brewing. Once I dial in my temp, I know it's dialed in so I don't have to check it compulsively.

2. Holds temperature very evenly

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Coolers are designed to hold temperatures, and they are insulated much better than a thin-walled stainless steel container. I cannot possibly imagine that your stainless steel mash tun holds temperatures better than a cooler. Maybe you were using the cooler incorrectly? Did you preheat it?

3. When temperature drops just add a little heat instead of boiling water

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I don't experience temperature drops. I will lose maybe 1-2 degrees Fahrenheit over an hour-long mash. The most important factor is not opening up the cooler once you have doughed in and gotten to your target mash temp. Close it, and keep it closed. Opening to check the temperature is going to let all the heat out.

4. Improved efficiency through consistent mash temperature

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Unless you are getting your temp down to the 120's or 130's during the mash to put it out of saccharification range, temperature has no effect on efficiency unless you are doing extraordinarily short mashes, or you have something else wrong with your mash, like improper pH.

5. Extremely easy clean-up and storage

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I don't quite see how this is different from a cooler, but whatever floats your boat.

I know there are a lot of guys who like to use coolers and, if that works for you, I think that's great. Sounds like you have a good system worked out.

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I have and still occasionally use my cooler MLT, but more often I have been doing BIAB because I have found it speeds up certain parts of my brewing process. The trade-off is that doing BIAB in my stainless kettle DOES lose temperature a lot more easily than mashing in my cooler. However, as you mentioned, I can fire up the burner and recirculate to warm it up again.

I started out with a cooler and made 5 gals twice a month.

Now I make 2 gals every week, and use my old stainless pot as my tun.

I just measure the grain into the tun, pour in the hot water from an ordinary kitchen 3 liter pot, and let the grain mash. If the temp drops too much, just put the tun on the stove and cook it up some - since it's so small, an electric range can manage no problem.

Once it's done, I pour it through sieves a few times, throw the grain back into the tun and wash the grain with fresh hot water. Once I've collected enough wort, it all gets fed back through the grain in a plastic bucket with holes in the bottom to filter out all the dust.

Then it's business as usual doing the boil.

Big increase in both efficiency and taste - mainly due I suspect to the washing and rinsing, and better temperature control.

weirdboy said:

because I dislike the way misinformation like yours spreads on the internet.
.

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You asked the reasons I like my stainless tun. I gave those reasons. I don't suggest that you or anyone else has to agree with me. But it does seem that a lot of professional quality setups sold by major distributors use stainless for all 3 pots, so perhaps there are some other people who are perfectly willing to spend the bucks to go that route.

In your response to my opinion you seem to be saying that there is only one right way. And unless everyone else does things the same way you do, they are wrong. Perhaps differing opinions threaten you?

Ever think of trying a prescription for xanax?

wozzer said:

Big increase in both efficiency and taste - mainly due I suspect to the washing and rinsing, and better temperature control.

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Great system! Simple and sweet. I like it.

Puddlethumper said:

You asked the reasons I like my stainless tun. I gave those reasons. I don't suggest that you or anyone else has to agree with me. But it does seem that a lot of professional quality setups sold by major distributors use stainless for all 3 pots, so perhaps there are some other people who are perfectly willing to spend the bucks to go that route.

In your response to my opinion you seem to be saying that there is only one right way. And unless everyone else does things the same way you do, they are wrong. Perhaps differing opinions threaten you?

Ever think of trying a prescription for xanax?

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I asked for your reasoning because you stated objectively that stainless steel mash tuns are better than coolers. I then responded to your reasons point-by-point to show why they are not valid reasons for preferring one over the other. My goal is to not lead new brewers (this is the beginners forum, after all) into spending $175 on a brand new stainless steel tun because of your faulty reasoning.

I have said repeatedly that I don't even have a preference of stainless steel vs. coolers. I use both at different times and in different situations. However, none of the reasons you cited for preferring a SS mash tun actually make sense (except maybe the thermometer even though you can install one in a cooler), and they were stated as objective facts even though they were not. You were actually spreading disinformation to new brewers who don't know better, which is what I sought to counteract.

If you think using a stainless steel mash tun improves your efficiency, well--I suppose great for you. It doesn't, though, and you shouldn't go around telling other people the choice of construction materials makes a difference in efficiency.

weirdboy said:

you stated objectively that stainless steel mash tuns are better than coolers

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Not really sure that's what I said, but if you took it that way, sorry for the misunderstanding ... have a nice weekend!

Puddlethumper said:

Pratzie makes a lot of good points and I agree with virtually everything in his post. But I think the key in this discussion is in where you see yourself going with your brewing.

As for me, I want to be able to experiment with stepped mashes and that is what drove my decision to go with a stainless mash tun. It is very difficult to step the mash temp up from 110 to 160 over several steps without using heat applied from a burner. If you don't see yourself wanting to mess with that then a cooler mash tun will serve you very well for much less money than stainless. However, if you think you are likely to want to fiddle around with stepped mashes, then stainless may be your best choice.

On the subject of holding heat, I have found my stainless mash tun holds the mash at close to optimum temps really well. I do usually move it onto the burner on very low heat at about the 30 minute mark to keep the mash at 150 or above. Once it comes back up to about 152-153 I turn the heat off and it holds just fine until it is time to drain it. A 90 minute mash would require a couple more shots from the burner. I've been doing this with one burner. But I still prefer to add heat rather than adding more hot water and ending up with a really soupy mash. Generally I have found the stainless tun to be superior to the picnic cooler I was using before. (But this may simply be due to the quality of cooler I was using.)

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I find myself in the same boat. I've been brewing English ales and so far have not needed more than a stainless steel hot water tun, a 5 gallon Home Depot plastic insulated mash tun, and a 10 gallon stainless steel boil kettle. I tricked out the mash tun with a thermometer, so I could monitor the mash temperature, and my system has worked very well: I only lose about a degree or two over a 90 minute mash.

I've been thinking about brewing higher gravity beers and thought that I might do the same thing to a ten gallon plastic cooler, so that I could brew American ales, as well as porters, and stouts. I've also been researching how to do step mashes and decoction mashes for German beers - and that's what led me to decide to get a stainless steel mash tun and use direct heat to adjust mash temperatures. I can also use my hot water tun as a decoction pot, at this point, because there is a thermometer attached.

It really does depend on what you want to do. I could do the above using hot water infusions in a plastic tun, but using a stainless pot with direct heat achieves the same results and just seems easier, insofar as there is one less step vis-a-vis adding hot or cold to achieve a temperature step.

As far as cost goes, the metal pot is about twice as much as the plastic tun - but I can heat my heat my strike water in the pot and use my hot water tun both for sparging and as a decoction mash pot - so I figure it's about even.

lhommedieu said:

I find myself in the same boat. .

It really does depend on what you want to do. I could do the above using hot water infusions in a plastic tun, but using a stainless pot with direct heat achieves the same results and just seems easier, insofar as there is one less step vis-a-vis adding hot or cold to achieve a temperature step.

As far as cost goes, the metal pot is about twice as much as the plastic tun - but I can heat my heat my strike water in the pot and use my hot water tun both for sparging and as a decoction mash pot - so I figure it's about even.

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Just put up an Irish red within the last hour using my stainless mash tun. My beers have been good but as my skills have advanced I've also found some flaws in my system. I have found that my stainless steel tun works OK as long as outside temps are fairly warm. Since the weather has turned cooler I've had more trouble holding mash temps steady. Also, I've added a domed false bottom and that seems to inhibit heat transfer from the burner.

To hold the heat better I have decided to wrap the mash tun with insulation. I am also looking at perhaps buying a pump so I can move the wort through coil in the hot liquor tank (RIMS) to get better temperature control.

The bottom line? You can do anything you need to do with a cooler tun if it is big enough to meet your batch sizes. Stepped mashes will most likely require either a pump and some plumbing or the decision to go with decoction.

Agreed. The main reason I decided on a stainless steel tun is that I'd like to try some decoction mashes this spring and summer. I'll probably keep and use my insulated cooler for single infusion mashes. It only lost 2 degrees over 90 minutes the last time that I used it in cold weather.

lhommedieu said:

Agreed. The main reason I decided on a stainless steel tun is that I'd like to try some decoction mashes this spring and summer. I'll probably keep and use my insulated cooler for single infusion mashes. It only lost 2 degrees over 90 minutes the last time that I used it in cold weather.

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Sounds like that is a good piece of equipment. I'd hang on to that one too!

Cheers!

Some prefer SS for the capability of direct heating. I wanted a bottom draining tun so I could use a grant so I went with a Cooler and RIMs tube....I could never bottom drain a direct fired tun.

what about plastic seeping into mash at such temperatures?


I know coolers have thicker plastic inside than plastic water bottles but I am sure there must be some seepage at 150F for an hour long mash.

Study Details

• 16 plastic water bottles were exposed to different temperatures: 39°F (4°C), 77°F (25°C), and 158°F (70°C).
• Levels of BPA and antimony were checked after one, two, and four weeks.
• Antimony concentrations in the water from plastic water-bottles averaged 3.18 ng/L at 39.2°F (4°C), and 6.88ng/L at 77°F (25°C).
• At 158°F (70°C) (about the temperature in a car on a hot summer day), levels of antimony in water increased significantly to 38.5 ng /L.
• Levels of antimony in one of the sixteen water bottles increased to 2604 ng/L.